Hit a pothole and got 2 flats on my Model 3 Performance

[Gauss Guzzler]

I really enjoy "Engineering Explained" as Jason does a great job researching, compiling and presenting his various explanations, but on this particular video he completely failed to justify the core claim. He gave some great explanations and examples of the effects of tread width and rubber compounds but then when it came to the actual topic of rim diameter he simply offered Tesla's data showing the difference between aero wheels with low rolling resistance tires vs conventional wheels with ultra sticky tires. He never even offered a theory as to why the wheel diameter might matter, all he did was say that Tesla's data shows that it does, despite the fact that just seconds earlier he had explained how significant different tire compounds can be.

 

[ianc]

Didn't read the entire thread, but just wanted to say something similar happened to me lately. A bent rim from a pothole caused one of my m3p's tires to deflate. Had it fixed for $240. The tire was undamaged. You can report this to Caltrans, and even file a damage claim with them to be reimbursed. Search for form LD-0274 on the Caltrans site. Keep the tire pressures high!

 

[ElectricIAC]

To be fair, you can pop tires just as easily with a fat tire. I lost two 245/55/19’s to road debris on Tuesday night.

 

[jackmott]

To be fair, you can pop tires just as easily with a fat tire. I lost two 245/55/19’s to road debris on Tuesday night.

No, it is some amount less easy to do. Puncture resistance is not really any different but "pinch flat" (or whatever the automotive equivalent term is) is more likely. That is, flatting when the tire is smashed onto the rim or because the rim cracks.

 

[Black306]

Haven't tried submitting a claim, but I came across this link a while ago in case I needed it.

Submit Damage Claim | Caltrans

State of California

dot.ca.gov

 

[dfwatt]

I didn't see the defect in the road at all before I hit it since it was so small and there was traffic ahead of me. The rural road I take a few times per year on my trips has potholes here and there about the same size as what I hit, and on that road I would be driving a much faster speed. So I think I'll have to figure something out before I go again.

Just saw this video where they go over the Pirelli tires on the M3P. Compared to PS4S 235 tire they have a smaller contact patch of 210 mm vs 225mm for the PS4S. They also have a harsher ride. They don't know why Tesla used a 235 size tire for a street car as that is not the optimal size tire for a 9" rim. For the 1/2 of 1% of people who will track their M3P, the extra road feel may be a good thing. My guess is that a wider correctly sized tire would reduce range below what Tesla wanted to list for the M3P. At 3:50 mark they go over the tire and the stretching...

First of all the Pilot Sport 4S tire that was specifically spec'ed out for Tesla actually has a quarter inch wider tread than any other 235/35 in the PS4s line. Speculation is that Tesla had Michelin widen the tread, hardened the center tread compound to avoid accelerated Crown wear at high pressures, and perhaps made some other changes like perhaps a softened compound at the Outer Edge tp improve traction and cornering grip. Hands down the Tesla spec PS4 is the best High Performance Tire for the car.

Why they switched to the crappy Pirellis is beyond me. They compounded their mistake by adding an extra half inch of wheel width which was not needed and additionally which adds over 2 lb of wheel weight/ unsprung weight which only contributes to the vulnerability to impact damage. Short form of a long story – if you care about your car, performance and want the best aesthetic get a set of forged 19 or 20 inch wheels and get the Pirelli PS4 preferably in a Tesla spec if you can get it. We've had two sets of high-quality aftermarket forged or flow formed 20 in Wheels and we've had one slightly bent rim in 65000 miles of driving. And that includes a fair chunk of time on crappy New England roads. But we are super careful about potholes.

The issue of low profile tires and their trade-offs has been beaten to death on this forum but the short form of a long story is you trade impact vulnerability, extra weight, and extra cost, for a modest increase in turn-in feel and dynamics and the aesthetic of 20 inch wheels. For some people that's a terrible trade-off but if you're careful and you can live with the vulnerabilities, you do get a better-looking car

 

[JimShaw]

First of all the Pilot Sport 4S tire that was specifically spec'ed out for Tesla actually has a quarter inch wider tread than any other 235/35 in the PS4s line. Speculation is that Tesla had Michelin widen the tread, hardened the center tread compound to avoid accelerated Crown wear at high pressures, and perhaps made some other changes like perhaps a softened compound at the Outer Edge tp improve traction and cornering grip. Hands down the Tesla spec PS4 is the best High Performance Tire for the car.

Why they switched to the crappy Pirellis is beyond me. They compounded their mistake by adding an extra half inch of wheel width which was not needed and additionally which adds over 2 lb of wheel weight/ unsprung weight which only contributes to the vulnerability to impact damage. Short form of a long story – if you care about your car, performance and want the best aesthetic get a set of forged 19 or 20 inch wheels and get the Pirelli PS4 preferably in a Tesla spec if you can get it. We've had two sets of high-quality aftermarket forged or flow formed 20 in Wheels and we've had one slightly bent rim in 65000 miles of driving. And that includes a fair chunk of time on crappy New England roads. But we are super careful about potholes.

The issue of low profile tires and their trade-offs has been beaten to death on this forum but the short form of a long story is you trade impact vulnerability, extra weight, and extra cost, for a modest increase in turn-in feel and dynamics and the aesthetic of 20 inch wheels. For some people that's a terrible trade-off but if you're careful and you can live with the vulnerabilities, you do get a better-looking car

dfwatt:

Thanks for an interesting post.

I have an SR 2019 model 3, I'm 80 years old, I am also a beta tester for FSD

I have been seriously considering moving up to a 2022 m3 Performance. Why? I drove one a couple days ago and it brings out the "boy" in me.

I don't need the range vs what I now have which is 200 miles I don't drive that many miles. My car has 14200 miles and a little over 2 years old.

But I love the feeling the Performance gives when taking off. It does make me feel like a boy again.

After a lot of reading about the Performance, this are my concerns and why I might change my mind:

1) All that I have been reading about rim cracks and tires going flat. This scares me and I don't want to spend more $$ buying a smaller set of tires and rims or having flat tires.
2) My 3 has 18" rims and when on rough road there can be a lot of road noise. I have read the 20" rims and the tires on the Performance create even more road noise.

The above 2 are my concern. If I'm a careful and not a fast driver: Are my concerns justified or not so much?

I will have to give up as a beta tester for FSD to go to the Performance which I'm willing to do, if my 2 concerns are just over blown in my mind and I go ahead and purchase the Performance.

What are your thoughts with the data presented?

 

[ElectricIAC]

dfwatt:

Thanks for an interesting post.

I have a SR 2019 model 3, I'm 80 years old, I am also a beta tester for FSD

I have been seriously considering moving up to a 2022 m3 Performance. Why? I drove one a couple days ago and it brings out the "boy" in me.

I don't need the range vs what I now have. I don't drive that many miles. My car has 14200 miles and a little over 2 years old.

I love the feeling the Performance gives when taking off. It does make me feel like a boy again.

After a lot of reading about the Performance this is my concerns and why I might change my mind:

1) All I have been reading about rim cracks and tires going flat. This scares me and I don't want to spend more $$ buying a smaller set of tires and rims.
2) My 3 has 18" rims and when on rough road there can be a lot of road noise. I have read the 20" rims and the tires on the Perm. create even more road noise.

The above 2 are my concern. If I'm a careful and not a fast driver. Are my concerns justified or not so much?

I will have to give up as a beta tester for FSD to go to the Performance which I'm willing to do, if my 2 concerns are over blown in my mind.

What are your thoughts with the data presented?

I think the beta moves with the user as long as you notify Tesla.

 

[Nightdown_fox]

I come from a background of tuning sport compact cars where most are under 3,000 pounds. Even my WRX was only around 3200. I consider any of those cars you mentioned to be heavy. Been driving on low profile tires on most my cars since the late 90s... this is the first rim I have had destroyed.

Same, every car I’ve owned before my ‘18 M3P was a tuned sport compact — my ‘15 Launch Edition STI being the heaviest, so still getting used to this car’s weight.

Side note, the 18x8.5 Konig winter wheels from my STI fit perfectly on the M3P, so I didn’t wast the brand new set of Michelin Alpin PA4 tires I had just replaced on the STI. They’re only 18 lbs each and even though they look small they handle just as well as the summer set even with winter rubber. (yes kept the gold theme in the spirit of my STI, one of my fav cars).

Last year driving in Baltimore, the car in front of me swerved into the car next to it to avoid this full lane crater, leaving me no choice but go into it at about 20 mph and it obliterated two rims, created tire bubbles, and killed two wheel bearings. I work on my own cars, and long story short it took months to fix. Body shop said it could take 6 months or more (COVID 2020) so I set off on my own to fix and it still took months.

A) Found stock wheels online, $500 for all 4 from someone who bought 19s out of fear of potholes (lol). Tesla wanted $700 per wheel, plus installation. B) Took the car to the service center for the bearings and they claimed to not hear the classic wheel bearing noise, said there was no problem, returned the car, billed for the diagnostic fee, AND closed the ticket in the app. COVID 2020 also made it hard to speak directly to the service team outside of the app. Also the car came back with a scratch on the Tesla carbon fiber wheel hub cap. C) Tesla all but refused to sell me the wheel bearings to replace myself. The parts department went straight to voicemail and refused to return my call. Going through the app only got me told to call the parts department. Going in person sometimes got denied due to COVID. Also lost a rear caliper bolt in the event, part was $0.55 and Tesla wanted $200.55 to replace. Had to go in person multiple times and finally found a sensible service manager that ordered the parts (bought extra caliper bolts too because why not).

Once I FINALLY got the parts, the wheel bearing hubs took less than an hour to replace and were absolutely toast (shocker). I also sent in paperwork to Baltimore to get reimbursement, and they said it can take up to two years but they acknowledged receipt.

So just keep in mind, the A) SC will charge significantly more for work that needs to be done and may need convincing to actually do the work. B) Electrified Garage will act as a middle man for parts, but they add on their own costs to the parts too (which is fair, just will be more). C) if you want to do your own work, you may have to befriend a service manager to get parts.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Same, every car I’ve owned before my ‘18 M3P was a tuned sport compact — my ‘15 Launch Edition STI being the heaviest, so still getting used to this car’s weight.

Side note, the 18x8.5 Konig winter wheels from my STI fit perfectly on the M3P, so I didn’t wast the brand new set of Michelin Alpin PA4 tires I had just replaced on the STI. They’re only 18 lbs each and even though they look small they handle just as well as the summer set even with winter rubber. (yes kept the gold theme in the spirit of my STI, one of my fav cars).
View attachment 740520

Last year driving in Baltimore, the car in front of me swerved into the car next to it to avoid this full lane crater, leaving me no choice but go into it at about 20 mph and it obliterated two rims, created tire bubbles, and killed two wheel bearings. I work on my own cars, and long story short it took months to fix. Body shop said it could take 6 months or more (COVID 2020) so I set off on my own to fix and it still took months.

View attachment 740519
View attachment 740522View attachment 740523
A) Found stock wheels online, $500 for all 4 from someone who bought 19s out of fear of potholes (lol). Tesla wanted $700 per wheel, plus installation. B) Took the car to the service center for the bearings and they claimed to not hear the classic wheel bearing noise, said there was no problem, returned the car, billed for the diagnostic fee, AND closed the ticket in the app. COVID 2020 also made it hard to speak directly to the service team outside of the app. Also the car came back with a scratch on the Tesla carbon fiber wheel hub cap. C) Tesla all but refused to sell me the wheel bearings to replace myself. The parts department went straight to voicemail and refused to return my call. Going through the app only got me told to call the parts department. Going in person sometimes got denied due to COVID. Also lost a rear caliper bolt in the event, part was $0.55 and Tesla wanted $200.55 to replace. Had to go in person multiple times and finally found a sensible service manager that ordered the parts (bought extra caliper bolts too because why not).

Once I FINALLY got the parts, the wheel bearing hubs took less than an hour to replace and were absolutely toast (shocker). I also sent in paperwork to Baltimore to get reimbursement, and they said it can take up to two years but they acknowledged receipt.

So just keep in mind, the A) SC will charge significantly more for work that needs to be done and may need convincing to actually do the work. B) Electrified Garage will act as a middle man for parts, but they add on their own costs to the parts too (which is fair, just will be more). C) if you want to do your own work, you may have to befriend a service manager to get parts.

It’s posts like these that have me considering just going back to a BMW or Audi demo car from time to time.

 

[Nightdown_fox]

It’s posts like these that have me considering just going back to a BMW or Audi demo car from time to time.

LOL! I don’t think I’m ever going back and this was probably the only experience with this car that was crappy and it wasn’t really even the car’s fault. Air actually stayed in the tire after the pothole and it wasn’t until I got out that I saw all the damage.

In fairness, this was my first experience with the service center since the car has had zero issues and no serviceable maintenance outside of what I can already do, AND it was during COVID2020.
This is more of an experience of what Tesla can do to improve access to parts especially for people used to working on cars.

I just want Tesla to get better and the real test is when the world is on fire lol. I’ve had similar horror stories with ICE, but definitely was quicker to fix.

 

[M109Rider]

PM sent...

I wish the M3P still came with the PS4S. I also don't care for the stretched look on the stock Pirelli tires. To me it looks like the tire is too narrow or the rim too wide. On my AMG I was running 295/30/19 rear and 255/35/19 front. Decent balance between performance and ride comfort.

Photo shows the defect I ran over. I really would not have expected that this could pinch and cut the sidewalls had it not happened to me. While I like to drive spirited at times, I'm not looking to squeak out the very last bit of handling to go as low as the M3P sidewalls. If I did it over again I would have bought a set of 19" rims with PS4S tires and sold the OEM 20" set before using them.

View attachment 738480

That looks like more than 3/4” pot hole to me. Also, it’s cut at a 90° angle. ..
That would have a nasty affect on many rims at speed. Especially a low profile rim on a heavy car.

 

[golfcart]

I’ve actually considered buying a spare set of stock performance 20” rims used just to have them around if I need them. I see them pop up on the forum from time to time at decent prices. I plan to keep the car a long time and just assume this won’t be the last time I bust a rim. Plus, as others have said, you can avoid downtime if you have the parts handy. Just gotta convince the wife…

 

[Apprunner]

First of all the Pilot Sport 4S tire that was specifically spec'ed out for Tesla actually has a quarter inch wider tread than any other 235/35 in the PS4s line. Speculation is that Tesla had Michelin widen the tread, hardened the center tread compound to avoid accelerated Crown wear at high pressures, and perhaps made some other changes like perhaps a softened compound at the Outer Edge tp improve traction and cornering grip. Hands down the Tesla spec PS4 is the best High Performance Tire for the car.

Why they switched to the crappy Pirellis is beyond me. They compounded their mistake by adding an extra half inch of wheel width which was not needed and additionally which adds over 2 lb of wheel weight/ unsprung weight which only contributes to the vulnerability to impact damage. Short form of a long story – if you care about your car, performance and want the best aesthetic get a set of forged 19 or 20 inch wheels and get the Pirelli PS4 preferably in a Tesla spec if you can get it. We've had two sets of high-quality aftermarket forged or flow formed 20 in Wheels and we've had one slightly bent rim in 65000 miles of driving. And that includes a fair chunk of time on crappy New England roads. But we are super careful about potholes.

The issue of low profile tires and their trade-offs has been beaten to death on this forum but the short form of a long story is you trade impact vulnerability, extra weight, and extra cost, for a modest increase in turn-in feel and dynamics and the aesthetic of 20 inch wheels. For some people that's a terrible trade-off but if you're careful and you can live with the vulnerabilities, you do get a better-looking car

I was surprised at how much lighter the car feels with 18s. The turn-in feel is very slightly degraded for the 18s but man, the ride quality I feel has dramatically improved. I don't go crashing over bumps like I did with the 20s and since I got better looking 18s than the stock, I was good with the looks.

Is there supposed to be in increase in range? I can't really tell

 

[ElectricIAC]

I’ve actually considered buying a spare set of stock performance 20” rims used just to have them around if I need them. I see them pop up on the forum from time to time at decent prices. I plan to keep the car a long time and just assume this won’t be the last time I bust a rim. Plus, as others have said, you can avoid downtime if you have the parts handy. Just gotta convince the wife…

I have a full set sitting on Michelin PS A/S3+ that's been sitting around.

I have no intention on going back to them, honestly.

 

[tm1v2]

I’ve actually considered buying a spare set of stock performance 20” rims used just to have them around if I need them. I see them pop up on the forum from time to time at decent prices. I plan to keep the car a long time and just assume this won’t be the last time I bust a rim. Plus, as others have said, you can avoid downtime if you have the parts handy. Just gotta convince the wife…

If you're set on sticking with the Uberturbines this sounds like a good plan.

I'll admit once again I think the Uberturbines look awesome on this car...even I'm feeling sad taking them off next week. If I thought I could get away with just putting beefier rubber on them (255/35R20) I would. But I know what the roads around here can do. Already facing a $5.5k repair bill for road damage to a loaner, that I need to either go after the city for or file as an insurance claim. (That hit didn't take out any wheels on the loaner, it had 245/45 tires, but it ripped up metal underneath the front end. Yes some roads here are THAT bad . S*** that could kill you on a bicycle.)

 

[JimShaw]

I think the beta moves with the user as long as you notify Tesla.

Not in my case. There is really no need for me to pay $10,000 for FSD.

I love Autopilot but too nervous at my age to allow it to drive in town.

No buy, no FSD, no beta tester

 

[ElectricIAC]

Not in my case. There is really no need for me to pay $10,000 for FSD.

I love Autopilot but too nervous at my age to allow it to drive in town.

No buy, no FSD, no beta tester

Ah, so you’re not buying FSD this go around. Got it.

 

[golfcart]

If you're set on sticking with the Uberturbines this sounds like a good plan.

I don’t think the rims I have are called Uberturbines. I dunno what people call them they are the original 20” wheels from a 2018 model 3 performance. I’ve always just seen them referred to as the sport wheels. Not the dark gray ones but the lighter silver ones.

I suppose in hindsight I should have just replaced the whole thing with an aftermarket wheel and tire package at the time I had to buy a new rim and 4 tires from Tesla for $2500. It’s just hard to make those decisions when your car is out of commission and you can’t wait around for stuff to ship.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I don’t think the rims I have are called Uberturbines. I dunno what people call them they are the original 20” wheels from a 2018 model 3 performance. I’ve always just seen them referred to as the sport wheels. Not the dark gray ones but the lighter silver ones.

Pothole magnets, Boat anchors are applicable names.