TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

HK must fast-track switch to electric buses

Discussion in 'Hong Kong' started by markwj, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,655
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Last month's record pollution levels in Hong Kong will lead to 154 people dying early. One Month. One Hundred and Fifty Four People dead.

    Vehicle emissions make up the second greatest contribution to our air pollution. When is the government going to learn, and get serious about this? Electrify the transport. Now. Incentivize EVs. Dis-incentivize petrol and diesel. Put in a legal framework for the mass adoption of EVs.

    Or, are they just going to put in 100 meter masts on the top of buildings so that they can raise the pollution monitoring stations even higher, to get better readings?

    So sorry, kids, for killing you early...

    http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/menuitem.2af62ecb329d3d7733492d9253a0a0a0/?vgnextoid=954b72c35ba19310VgnVCM100000360a0a0aRCRD&ss=Hong+Kong&s=News
     
  2. Titus

    Titus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Hong Kong SAR
    A little frustrating 3 years later and we are still sitting here breathing in diesel exhausts by the road.... and yet I pass by a big electric bus charging station every time I go to Shenzhen via the Shenzhen Bay crossing for over a year now.... What the hell are the HK companies/government doing???

    I'm a little outdated on the topic; last I remember a few years ago the bus companies had a few single deck electric buses under testing but then what happened? Now I hear there is a HK designed one made in China that they "say" will be put into service? When?
     
  3. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,655
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Every reply from the transport companies I have seen says (paraphrasing) "there are no double decker electric buses", "we are frightened the buses will catch fire while charging in our precious depots", "we are conducting feasibility studies", "hong kong is very hilly", etc, etc, etc.

    They only need to take a short trip across the border to see what is feasible.
     
  4. Titus

    Titus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Hong Kong SAR
    Hilly is perfect for instant torque electrics..... and they already have lines serviced by single deckers..... are they not frightened one of their diesel buses will catch fire AS THEY REGULARLY DO?

    LOL sorry it must be frustrating getting these responses all the time
     
  5. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,655
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    In the last Central Policy Unit seminar we attended, I almost burst out laughing. The bus company representative actually used a newspaper example of a diesel bus catching fire in their depot as a reason to be wary of electric buses.
     
  6. Titus

    Titus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Hong Kong SAR
    Picard-Facepalm.jpg
     
  7. gubes

    gubes Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    Messages:
    123
    Location:
    Hong Kong

    I read that late this year or early next year they will be trialing a single Decker 97 passenger (max) electric bus. Each bus costs HK$4m each which is double the cost of the equivalent diesel powered version. It has a range of over 330km and maximum speed of 70km/h. I don't know who makes it.

    Key question would be how much it costs to run a regular bus. Rough back of the envelope could be - average bus does 50,000km per year at (totally guessing here) - 50l/100km = 25,000 litres of fuel at say HK$15/l = HK$375,000 per year per bus.

    Electric bus probably does 1kwh/km = 50Mwh of power or with 15% electricity loss on charging = 57Mw from the grid & HK$1.30/kwh = HK$74,000

    i.e HK$300,000 a year per bus on fuel usage relative to electricity. Therefore the extra HK$2m has a payback of 6.6 years. You would have to think that maintenance would be substantially lower with the EV as well.

    Therefore, I think the E-buses could very well make financial sense as typically buses are used for up to 7 years.
     
  8. Titus

    Titus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Hong Kong SAR
    Yea it's the one designed by a HK company and made in China. I heard there were complaints about how the earlier EV bus trials were all Chinese busses which is stupid if you ask me if no other companies have cost effective bids. Anyway hope they get through all the BS sooner rather than later and finally get them on the road
     
  9. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,568
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    I think buses do more like 100,000 to 150,000 km / year, depending on what routing they do (urban or express buses). That would only make your calculation better though.

    And think of all the reduced pollution: It's a lot of money to be saved as well, when more and more vehicles go ICE->EV.

    330 km range is pretty good for a bus. Depends how fast you can charge it. Can you charge it also on shorter stops? Imagine if bus stops eventually have fast charging installed, at the termination nodes. Sitting there for 10-20 minutes on a fast DC charging can extend the range during the day, until it finally charges completely to full, overnight somewhere.
     
  10. gubes

    gubes Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    Messages:
    123
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Don't know how fast they would charge - it depends on how large the battery actually is. My guess is 4-5 hours using similar charging speed as supercharging.
    Ultimately, once you have decided on the E-bus you want to use, it may make sense to invest in bettery swapping infrastructure to make the whole thing work more efficiently. Battery swap stations make sense for electric taxi fleets and busses.
     
  11. Titus

    Titus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Hong Kong SAR
    Two words, battery swap.

    The bus depots are big enough and bus designed don't need to be pretty and the chassis should have plenty of room for a design that can be easily swapped out with hydraulics
     
  12. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,568
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Seems to make a lot of sense. Even though it would require more batteries (those in the bus, and those in the charging station), it doesn't really matter. If the bus was charging for 5 hours - it would be immobilised anyway.

    Let's say every two electric buses share three batteries: Example Driving for four hours, charging for four hours. This way, buses could be operating 24/7.

    On the other hand: Batteries don't need to charge to full, every time. If a bus is resting even ten minutes here and there (like termination nodes), this could prolong the distance the bus could drive in a day.
     
  13. lx3h

    lx3h Charged.hk TSLA Grp Rep

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,302
    Location:
    Hong Kong SAR China
    The single decker which was on display at Science Park was designed in Hong Kong and built by 中國動力
     
  14. icemankaka

    icemankaka Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    bus runs on diesel, fuel cost is halved.
     
  15. 808?

    808? Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Government to promote electric buses

    http://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1225802-20151125.htm

     
  16. lx3h

    lx3h Charged.hk TSLA Grp Rep

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,302
    Location:
    Hong Kong SAR China
  17. Titus

    Titus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Hong Kong SAR
    Interesting to hear from the GM of Icon Hotel at the Charged HK rally that they have purchased 2 electric buses to use as guests shuttles in early 2016 to add to their fleet of Model S. I wonder what brands/specs are the busses they have ordered.

    It seems waiting for government/large local companies (KMB, Citybus, etc) to act in a timely manner is useless; up to the entrepreneurs and private businesses to act in this city.
     
  18. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,655
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Yes, that was good to hear. It seems that the hotel industry in Hong Kong are one of the first movers into electric transportation. Many airport transfer services now use EVs (and Tesla Model S, in particular).

    But, also interesting to hear that the issue is again one of licensing. Getting a hotel transportation tourbus license in Hong Kong is very hard, even if the bus is electric.
     
  19. Titus

    Titus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Hong Kong SAR
    I wonder how's the case with school buses? Could existing operators change in their diesels for electric without any burning hoops to jump for registration?
    They should offer once year free EV road registration license for existing operators who wants to trade up for an EV bus.
    But that would be too easy and sensible for the bureaucrats
     

Share This Page