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Hmmm ... no Chademo adapter?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Cosmacelf, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    i wonder what to make of the fact that the Tesla store sells items like the Wall Connector for S, X and 3, but the Chademo adapter is only listed as being compatible with the S and X. Why wouldn't it be compatible with the model 3?
     
  2. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    First guess is that they just haven't gotten around to updating the description yet.
     
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  3. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    Yep, I vote for this. There are tons of obsolete videos (see delivery videos for the X), and other things that haven't been updated in ages. Looks like no one at Tesla is the 'web librarian', looking at continuity and current 'does this jibe with what we sell/deliver now?'.
     
  4. gregincal

    gregincal Active Member

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    I'm not so sure. It's possible, but it's not just a description thing. It doesn't appear on the Model 3 accessories page, even though the J1772 adapter and Wall Connector do. People thought the same thing about the UMC charging adapters, but now they have the Model 3 ones that are incompatible with the Model S/X ones. Maybe the existing Chademo adapter will work with the 3, maybe it won't. I certainly wouldn't buy one assuming it will.
     
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  5. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    We won't know until we know - but I'd think that the CHAdeMO is more in line with the J1772 and Wall Connector, both of which appear to be the same for all three cars.
     
  6. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Well, they seem to have redesigned the UMC for the Model 3. The old UMC no doubt still works with the Model 3, but they seem to be phasing it out. Maybe there is a redesign in the works for the Chademo adapter.

    OR maybe Model 3 gets an option at some time to have a built in Chademo connector in that ridiculously large charge port door.
     
  7. RiverBrick

    RiverBrick Active Member

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    There are photos of RC Model 3s using a CHAdeMO adapter. Is your theory that the adapter is reengineered or reprogrammed to work with 3s?
     
  8. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    I'm guessing that since the Model 3 is supposed to be a very high volume product, it would make sense for Tesla to go through the extra effort to design in a Chademo charge port into the car for the Japanese market. At that time (a year away, 2 years?), you can order a Model 3 with a built in Chademo charge port. And probably a built in CCS port then too for the Euro market and US markets. Just a guess.
     
  9. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    That makes no sense to me. You're talking about adapter ends vs tails of the old and new UMCs not fitting together whereas the Chademo adapter is one piece that goes from the port to the Tesla. Provided the car has supercharging enabled, there's no reason to think it won't work since we know supercharging works.
     
  10. ccutrer

    ccutrer Active Member

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    I agree with @Canuck. There was a long discussion in the New UMC thread that basically concluded "Tesla can't detect an old UMC, so they couldn't treat it different. But they probably wouldn't/shouldn't anyway". The situation here is slightly different since it's using the proprietary supercharger protocol, so the car might be able to detect it's a Chademo Adapter rather than a real supercharger, and purposely block it. But I stand by the conclusion that why would they? Even if they eventually build a a Chademo or CCS port into the car, and market that that's the "proper" way to use those charging stations, there's no reason to purposely block an older Chademo. If someone wants to buy a $450 Chademo adapter when there's a better way, who's Tesla to say "nope!"? And it just seems like a support pain for them if they have to explain to customers "yes, I know the adapter physically fits in your car, but it's not allowed". Tesla is all about keeping it simple. If it fits, it charges.
     
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  11. gregincal

    gregincal Active Member

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    I agree they will probably work, but I'll point out that since it's a proprietary protocol we don't know that the Chademo adapter looks exactly like a supercharger to the car. They could just as easily have Chademo adapter specific code in the car. There is a possibility that they have had problems with the adapter working with the new charger in the 3 and decided that they need a new adapter. Who knows.
     
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  12. ccutrer

    ccutrer Active Member

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    Yup, that black box of proprietary protocol gives more wiggle room. I would almost venture a guess that the car _does_ know it's a Chademo, since superchargers (can theoretically) charge for use (I still think it's most likely the car keeping track and charging you for its own use), but you should never be charged for use of the Chademo adapter (the Chademo station is the one doing the payments).

    Does anyone know if when the Chademo adapter came out, did Model S's have to have a software update before they could use it? If not, we can be reasonably sure that the Chademo adapter speaks at least some old form of plain supercharger protocol. But that still doesn't necessarily mean anything. Superchargers could have all had updates so they speak a new protocol or old protocol automatically, and Model 3 only speaks new protocol, and doesn't support old protocol, even if Model S/X do.

    Yeah... I'm going to stand by my original - I'm going to assume Model 3 supports the Chademo adapter until proven it does not. But if I were in the position of actually needing the Chademo adapter to work with Model 3, I'd (in order of how desperate I am/how much I can afford to "lose" if it can't):

    * buy it and test it locally before a road trip
    * borrow or meet someone that owns one, and test it before buying the adapter
    * wait for confirmation from someone on the forums that has actually tested it before buying a Model 3
     
  13. ccutrer

    ccutrer Active Member

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    This is a European thread, but #4 indicates there are multiple versions of the European Chademo adapter, and old ones do not work with new cars.
     
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  14. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    I do know that the current Chademo adapter has its own firmware, because very early adapters needed to get their firmware updated.

    I also know that the current Chademo adapter is a pain in the butt to use. There are several different types of Chademo handles out there, and getting it to work with the floppy adapter the first or second or third time is a challenge.

    It wouldn't surprise me if Tesla decided that the support calls alone was a reason they don't want to deal with the adapter for the Model 3, and are planning an alternate method.
     
  15. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    It's real simple for me to use and always worked the first time. My problems have not been with the Tesla Chademo adapter not working but the Chademo station itself being out of order, or a vehicle using it and there's only one. That's my concern with Chademo and not with the adapter. I love that thing and waited a long time for it while in development, and when it was suppose to be $1k. When I finally got it, Tesla charged me the US price of about $475 in Canadian funds because of how long I had waited -- and that sounded like a great deal to me since I was expecting to pay $1k US funds.

    We probably need to rely on them more up here because we're still supercharger barren on some well-travelled routes, like after you leave the Hope supercharger for Osoyoos/Penticton on the number 3 and want to make it back. Fortunately, there are chademos at Manning Park, Princeton, Keremos and Penticton and it's so much better than any L2 even at 80 amps.
     
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  16. BioSehnsucht

    BioSehnsucht Member

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    It might almost make sense to relegate Chademo to "unsupported" (but if you have one it works if it works) status, and just rely on the eventual spread of CCS (especially in Europe) for non-SC DCFC. Whether that means another adapter or an update to charge port to fit a CCS + Tesla (NA this is two separate ports, EU this could be one as Tesla uses the non-DCFC Type 2 for DCFC by making some clever alterations).

    Sure, shipping cars lack any kind of CCS ports, but they could make it a retrofit later (if it was already planned but they are waiting on a corresponding S/X update first to deploy it) and so far no "real" customers have the cars yet to really complain.

    Would certainly explain the huge charge port area on the 3 with very cheap looking filler panel and tiny Tesla proprietary connector.
     
  17. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    There's no need to rely on the eventual spread of CCS unless you drive a vehicle other than a Tesla, and even then I doubt you'll ever see banks of maintained CCS chargers for a long time to come, if at all.

    I'm relying on the actual spread of the supercharger network, rather that the eventual spread of any other fast charging network, since that will one day make my Chademo adapter a thing of the past -- and I don't think it's that far off.
     
  18. BioSehnsucht

    BioSehnsucht Member

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    Sure, the SC network generally gets you where you need to go, and will only get better with time.

    But people buy Chademo adapters for a reason. Maybe the spread is expected to improve fast enough not to matter, but there is still a "market" for people who want to be able to charge at "all" DCFC locations, not just SC.
     
  19. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Unless Tesla wants to give up on the Japanese market, it'll have to support Chademo.
     
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  20. renim

    renim Member

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    more importantly,
    Unless Tesla wants to give up on the Chinese market, it'll have to support Chademo style technology (ie CAN bus etc)
     

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