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You may want to consider your standing as a true tesla fanatic. 
If you're this far in and having any second thoughts, your member status may not have been valid to begin with. I believe this forum could re-certify you but it's easier to self-teach; to home school if you will. But anyway nothing I've heard recently shakes my confidence in the least. Nothing has happened, and the media talk is complete nonsense. I haven't seen the actual numbers but the reliability stuff means almost nothing if I'm 45% more likely than average to need service if the average is already pretty low - which it must be. Who cares if I make 1.5 service visits per 5 years instead of 1? (Or numbers to that effect). But anyway all such concerns are overwhelmingly eclipsed by the positives - so there's literally no reason at all to hesitate because there's infinitely more reason to hesitate about (and in fact outright reject) any other vehicle alternative.
If you're this far in and having any second thoughts, your member status may not have been valid to begin with. I believe this forum could re-certify you but it's easier to self-teach; to home school if you will. But anyway nothing I've heard recently shakes my confidence in the least. Nothing has happened, and the media talk is complete nonsense. I haven't seen the actual numbers but the reliability stuff means almost nothing if I'm 45% more likely than average to need service if the average is already pretty low - which it must be. Who cares if I make 1.5 service visits per 5 years instead of 1? (Or numbers to that effect). But anyway all such concerns are overwhelmingly eclipsed by the positives - so there's literally no reason at all to hesitate because there's infinitely more reason to hesitate about (and in fact outright reject) any other vehicle alternative.
Two S family here: mine is a 2012 and currently has a door handle issue and had a few things here and there.
Wife's car is a 2014, had a wiper replaced due to streaking and an annual maintenance.
Since her car arrived it has been the road trip car but I'm at 49k miles, she's over 16k miles.
Wife's car is a 2014, had a wiper replaced due to streaking and an annual maintenance.
Since her car arrived it has been the road trip car but I'm at 49k miles, she's over 16k miles.
gavine
Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
Lots of 8-speed transmission issues with ICE cars out there (per CR). It's amazing how many hoops manufacturers are jumping-through to squeeze the tiniest bit of performance and efficiency out of under-powered and noisy cars. EVs are the solution to all of those issues.
Father Bill
Member
I have had mine for just over 5 months and it has had to overnight at the SC 3 times. The first was to repair issues that occurred prior to delivery (mine is a CPO). The second time to work out issues with the AC(low level of refrigerant) and replacing the Drive Unit proactively. The third time was for the LTE upgrade(really only a day as the sent a loaner and traded with me at work later the same day:smile. I have put on 12,000 miles and minus the second visit all the SC visits have been for improvements on the vehicle more so than repairs. My MS will go into the shop next Tuesday for the TPMS sensor retrofit and its 2 year annual service update, again this visit will be for a voluntary upgrade and regularly scheduled maintenance.
Without a doubt this is the best car that I have ever owned. I know at some point it may need some service outside of the warranty, and for that I am saving up. I have no fears that it will ever be unreliable.
Be glad that you have taken the plunge, I hope your experience is as good as mine has been.
Peace,
Father Bill
. I have put on 12,000 miles and minus the second visit all the SC visits have been for improvements on the vehicle more so than repairs. My MS will go into the shop next Tuesday for the TPMS sensor retrofit and its 2 year annual service update, again this visit will be for a voluntary upgrade and regularly scheduled maintenance. Without a doubt this is the best car that I have ever owned. I know at some point it may need some service outside of the warranty, and for that I am saving up. I have no fears that it will ever be unreliable.
Be glad that you have taken the plunge, I hope your experience is as good as mine has been.
Peace,
Father Bill
My order confirms tomorrow night as well. Hope you enjoy your car to the max and receive it sooner than later. I also felt a bit bummed with this news but I actually expect the newer MS's to have better reliability. New drive units, updated packs, and software. I'm sure there are improvements in the supply chain too.
This is a young car company so you don't expect perfection but like most other people said, no one is getting stranded on roads, and everyone loves their car and the driving experience. I'm sure we will too. Tesla is pushing the envelope more than other car companies, I think they're doing a great job keeping standards high.
This is a young car company so you don't expect perfection but like most other people said, no one is getting stranded on roads, and everyone loves their car and the driving experience. I'm sure we will too. Tesla is pushing the envelope more than other car companies, I think they're doing a great job keeping standards high.
My MS is approaching 93K and is currently in for servicing. Overall I had a positive experience with there service department having my car for almost 3 years. I made sure I purchased the extended warranty just in case anything happened, so up to 100k or 8 years. I'm glad I had that coverage since my car is one of the early models. I started developing some swirls or bubbling on top of my LCD screen, side mirrors didn't tilt down when in reverse, strange sound opening and closing trunk, 2nd issue with TPM failure as well as a little crack in my air suspension hose. I had no real problem with my S except for the air leak which took them until my 7th visit to finally correct. I asked my service agent how much it would have cost if i didn't have the extended warranty, and said over 4K for the LCD. I had no issues with door handles but they did replace them when I noticed that they made strange sounds. I had a loud whirling sound when I first take off and telsa replaced the motor. I had about 4 window regulator failures, 2 panoramic roof breakage, 2 front windshield cracks and I think a 12v battery issue. I had also a seat warming issue but they couldn't find anything wrong with the seats.... But still i'm ok with it since its a new company and they do address the issues. Since I had the S I've only spent money on 2 sets of tires and a front windshield. My only concern now is after 100K if something breaks what will I do? It would be nice if they offer another 50K warranty or 100k for peace of mind. Just my 2cents.
McHoffa
CyberOwners
That's a LOT of issues in less than 3 years. I also can't imagine dealing with all that out of pocket. I can understand why CR would give it a poor rating if they met with people with similar experiences. I think that especially for early adopters of a car that costs $100k +/- that they should offer an extra 100k or something warranty. I mean basically you're an investor and beta tester. An extended warranty is the least they could do.
Hoping they get all those things worked out before Model 3. One of the big pluses of going electric is supposed to be not having maintenance issues!
CO2Saver
Member
I think you'll be very pleased. I am.
4 months, 3K miles, great performance, no problems.
I suggest not worrying -- for sure you will love the car. If there is an issue they'll cheerfully fix it.
4 months, 3K miles, great performance, no problems.
I suggest not worrying -- for sure you will love the car. If there is an issue they'll cheerfully fix it.
sickfox
Member
Regardless of whatever car you have, there will always be problems. Ferrari, MB, Honda, whatever. In this forum, everything is amplified. Ie: CR article, issues with this and that. It could happen to any car. We bought our P85 car last 12/2014 and we currently have 31K in it. So far, we had the water leak issue, the drive unit issue and also, the Service Center scrape my HREs. All of these issues were resolved, didn't pay a dime AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, we had the most positive experience when turning our car for any service. THAT IS PRICELESS!
Here's one that will solidify your purchase: Woman and child saved by the Model S in a landslide
Now, this is going to be the longest wait of you're entire life. Congratulations! This forum will serve as your support group in the next few week or so before you get the car. :tongue:
Here's one that will solidify your purchase: Woman and child saved by the Model S in a landslide
Now, this is going to be the longest wait of you're entire life. Congratulations! This forum will serve as your support group in the next few week or so before you get the car. :tongue:
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Watching the latest Consumer Reports Car Talk video is probably worth watching for anyone who wants to know more about the life cycle of cars. In there they point out that whenever car makers go through a change that is more than just cosmetic, the reliability takes a hit. Right now a lot of car makers are having reliability issues because so many of them are going through design changes. The biggest problems they saw this year was with infotainment and transmissions, both of which have had a lot of changes lately. they also pointed out Toyota is at the top of the pack mostly because their car line up is mature and hasn't changed much in a few years. Ford was very high until a couple of years ago when they changed several platforms at once and now they are in the bottom third as the problems with all those changes get worked out.
Tesla is a new car company doing something nobody has ever done before. I have seen people say here the Model S is old and should be redesigned, but in reality it's fairly young compared to some of the other car platforms out there. The current Ford Taurus was introduced in 2010 and I believe the platform originated with Volvo before that. The Prius is getting a new design for 2016, but the 2015 is based on a platform introduced in 2009. The Model S has a lot of technologies that have never been done in a car before such as the big touch screen, the retracting door handles, a battery pack that size, the battery chemistry (variation on what was used for the Roadster, but not used much by anyone else for cars), and the power of the electric motors (no other car out there pumps as much electricity through the motors as the Model S platform). These are the areas where people have had problems and Tesla has been fixing them.
One reason there has not been a successful startup of a car company in the US since the 1920s is largely due to the expectations the public has and the huge base of institutional knowledge mainstream car companies have. People here have criticized other car companies of being too conservative, but being conservative also contributes to high reliability. If you look at the top of Consumer Reports reliability ratings, the top brands on the list are also among the more conservative about radical change. It's easy to make something reliable when you're just doing a variation on something you've done many times before, that's what institutional knowledge gets you. Doing new things always has inherent risks and will always have bugs.
Cars have become extremely reliable compared to even 20 years ago and are light years beyond where they were in the 1920s. Chrysler could get away with some new car company bugs in the 1920s because all cars had problems, even the most common car, the Model T from Ford. As cars have become more reliable, the public has grown to expect that as the norm and complains loudly if there are any problems. Early adopters are used to bugs because they like being on the cutting edge. Almost all early buyers of Teslas were early adopters and accepted bugs as part of the experience. They have seen the car improve over time and are just happy to see progress.
As the car matures, people who are not early adopters are beginning to enter the Tesla market and they want something as advanced as the Tesla, but as reliable as a Toyota. Toyota has been building cars since 1937 and they are conservative about major changes on their mass produced cars. They thoroughly test any new technology on low volume cars before they become mainstream. The current platform for the Camry is not only based on a family that started in the late 70s, the current platform itself has been in production longer than the Model S but Toyota builds more cars each week than Tesla has built in it's entire existence (including the components they built for the RAV4 and Mercedes).
Tesla is improving at a staggering rate, but they are still going to have teething problems. If you want a Tesla that is as reliable as a Camry, you have about 10 years to wait. You can either have high reliability or cutting edge technology, but you can't have both.
Personally, I'm not an early adopter, though I've been in R&D my whole career. I'm willing to put up with some glitches, but I don't want to be a beta tester. If I had the money, I'd be buying a Model S today. It's mature enough for me at this point. I probably wouldn't have bought one in 2013.
CO2Saver
Member
Not a member of CR, so no positive input from me in their survey, but if they asked, I would respond NO ISSUES.
Which is not to say I don't have a minor complaint or two. The garage remote's range is wimpy, the rear-view camera blocks out the garage/gate remote buttons, and I hate what they did to the energy display in Firmware Rev 7.
Which is not to say I don't have a minor complaint or two. The garage remote's range is wimpy, the rear-view camera blocks out the garage/gate remote buttons, and I hate what they did to the energy display in Firmware Rev 7.
lucy
bluehair
I am a member of Consumer Reports and can't wait for the opportunity to fill out my auto survey next year.
I get my car at the end of the week and hope I have a great experience to report, hope we can get all of the red dots back.
fingers crossed!
I get my car at the end of the week and hope I have a great experience to report, hope we can get all of the red dots back.
fingers crossed!
Never spent more than $30k on a car and cannot believe that I am likely going to spend 3x that on a Tesla. What do they say... You only live once!
I spent $22K on my current car in 1992 and I'm now looking at spending 5X that. Before I started looking at Tesla I was looking at cars in the $30K-$40K range. I had a number of criteria that ICE cars couldn't meet and the Model S way exceeded most of my criteria by a huge margin and was only marginal in one area, so I'm now looking at a $100K car. I wouldn't have seriously considered an electric car if the Model S wasn't such a superior car in some many other ways.
The range on one charge. The superchargers mitigate that a fair bit, but most ICE cars get 400 miles or more on one tank of gas on the road and a Model S's outside limit under normal driving conditions is about 300 miles. Right now in our ICE cars we can get to the Bay Area with one gas stop, though we usually make two, and it can be done in one long day pushing through (about 12 hours).
Between the quieter car, Auto Pilot, and the ability to nap at superchargers if I'm beginning to flag, I can probably make it with less fatigue, but it will probably take 1-2 hours longer.
On every other criteria the Model S exceeds my criteria by such massive margins it isn't funny. For example I wanted acceleration about the same as my current car or better (around 8s 0-60), the 90D is around 4s. I wanted at least as much cargo room as my current car (about 20 cu ft) and the Model S is significantly more than that with the seats down. I think the Model S is only a little smaller cargo space than a Subaru Outback. It is definitely far more than my SO's Impreza. I also wanted better gas mileage than my current car. I would have been OK with somewhere in the 20s mpg around town and low 30s on the road. Working at home I don't put a lot of miles on my car, though it looks like I'm going to have to take more road trips to California in the next couple of years.
I was impressed with my SO's Impreza's performance. It has something like 180 HP out of a small 4 cylinder. It has decent acceleration too, but car makers have not been able to scale up that performance to their larger cars. Larger ICE cars either have gas mileage numbers only marginally better than my current car (about 17 around town and 25 highway) or they are gutless wonders that go take a week to get 0-60. Then I came across the model S with 4s 0-60 and the equivalent of 100mpg!
Fueling the Model S will also by cheap here. Our electricity is $0.08 a KWH and comes from the Bonneville Dam which is about 10 miles up the road. We get ferocious winds coming out of the Columbia Gorge in the winter. They come right out of the arctic and cut right through you. One year they were so bad they lifted our gas grill up and threw it across the deck. Filling the car with gas when the winds are blowing during the winter is downright painful. I came within a hair's breadth of running out of gas once because I didn't want to fill the car in the cold. I was fortunate to be 1/2 block from a gas station when the engine started spluttering and I was just able to get there.
This is a video shot at an observatory just across the Columbia River from us, the observatory is visible from some spots in our neighborhood:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSW_osw8e9U
Hi, @wdolson,
I can see you're a very reasonable guy. Your requirements for the vehicle and your analysis demonstrate that. I, myself, did my analysis from the perspective of a full-blown midlife crisis. After an astonishingly brief conversation with my wife -- isn't your spouse supposed to hear you out and sympathize with your needs? -- it turned out that the whole girlfriend/mistress thing was emphatically a non-starter. That left the car option.
There is no other vehicle I'm aware of in my price range that offers that combination of midlife crisis satisfaction (acceleration, handling, appearance) and practicality (people capacity, cargo capacity, reliability, mileage, etc.), AND is also so environmentally friendly.
A few comments on your comments...
I think the single biggest change that has mitigated that problem since August 2013, when I took delivery of my Model S, was the energy-aware and charger-aware trip planning software upgrade. Sadly still buggy, but it still makes a world of difference. My family and I routinely travel to DC via the Tesla Supercharger network, and no longer worry about range charging before we leave or pre-calculating the route.
Hard to beat that cost and the renewable resource involved!
Yes... but you guys have some truly awesome windsurfing!
Alan
I can see you're a very reasonable guy. Your requirements for the vehicle and your analysis demonstrate that. I, myself, did my analysis from the perspective of a full-blown midlife crisis. After an astonishingly brief conversation with my wife -- isn't your spouse supposed to hear you out and sympathize with your needs? -- it turned out that the whole girlfriend/mistress thing was emphatically a non-starter. That left the car option.
There is no other vehicle I'm aware of in my price range that offers that combination of midlife crisis satisfaction (acceleration, handling, appearance) and practicality (people capacity, cargo capacity, reliability, mileage, etc.), AND is also so environmentally friendly.
A few comments on your comments...
I do not believe in range anxiety so much as I believe in time anxiety. With a gas vehicle, it is unusual to find yourself far from a gas station. When you get to a gas station, it's usually <10 minutes to refuel. So in a gas vehicle, it's pretty reasonable to wait until the warning light comes on before thinking about refueling. In an EV, the true penalty (IMHO) is the time it costs to recharge. The Tesla can be recharged from any 110V outlet, and there are certainly way more of those than there are gas stations. But the time required at 110V is unacceptable. So recharging requires more consideration.
I think the single biggest change that has mitigated that problem since August 2013, when I took delivery of my Model S, was the energy-aware and charger-aware trip planning software upgrade. Sadly still buggy, but it still makes a world of difference. My family and I routinely travel to DC via the Tesla Supercharger network, and no longer worry about range charging before we leave or pre-calculating the route.
Hard to beat that cost and the renewable resource involved!
Yes... but you guys have some truly awesome windsurfing!
Alan
skdave
Member
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