Hold Steering Wheel every 20-25 seconds?

[JohnnyG]

What is absolutely ridiculous is that: at the same time they increased the nags, they decreased the visibility of it!!!

The white strobing halo around the instrument cluster has been replaced with just a white line at the top. Many people have their steering wheels adjusted in such a way that the steering wheel blocks the view of the top edge of the instrument cluster. If they're going to reduce the visual cues, at least place what's remaining of it in an area that we all see, regardless of seat / wheel adjustments, like at the bottom.

I want to voice this to Tesla... Where is everyone sending their complaints about the nags, so I can send this there as well?

 

[MIT_S60]

The giant blinking boarder is more than enough to be seen out of your peripheral vision.

They changed it in 2018.21.9 so only the top line on the screen flashes, not all four borders. Which, in my case, happens to be blocked by the steering wheel for my line of sight, which makes it even more annoying.

 

[MIT_S60]

What is absolutely ridiculous is that: at the same time they increased the nags, they decreased the visibility of it!!!

The white strobing halo around the instrument cluster has been replaced with just a white line at the top. Many people have their steering wheels adjusted in such a way that the steering wheel blocks the view of the top edge of the instrument cluster. If they're going to reduce the visual cues, at least place what's remaining of it in an area that we all see, regardless of seat / wheel adjustments, like at the bottom.

I want to voice this to Tesla... Where is everyone sending their complaints about the nags, so I can send this there as well?

Log in to your Tesla account on their website, click on "Manage" for your vehicle, scroll down to Support, and select "Escalate this concern for executive review" to gain visibility on the issue. I'm sure they're aware of the number of complaints from forums, but this would help in getting a more serious response on the problem.

 

[Snowstorm]

While some of us don’t want to say it, I believe the root of the issue is that one has to hold the wheel at all. Yes, we are supposed to hold the wheel, but is that what we really want, is this what we believed? Would you still bought the feature (or the car) with the same enthusiasm if you actually have to hold the wheel 100% of the time? What would drivers think of a cruise control system where you have to rest your foot on the gas or brake (or lightly press it every 10s, but not too hard) for it to function?

Autosteer means steers by itself. Having to hold the wheel, or worse, nudge it every few seconds defeats the purpose at he fundamental level. People went hands free and some got into trouble due to lack of attention not because that is what the system was implied to promise, just because you have prompts and text doesn’t mean it will be observed if it goes against core assumptions. This is not a flamethrower, this is not a car.

I understand that this may be required when due to current system limitations, but it needs to be communicated that the intention is for this to be hands free autosteer and have a timeline towards that. In the mean time, giving people the option to opt out of what is has now became a significantly less valuable system and receive a refund, or to remove the cost of this until it does what is implied would be the right thing to do.

 

[MIT_S60]

While some of us don’t want to say it, I believe the root of the issue is that one has to hold the wheel at all. Yes, we are supposed to hold the wheel, but is that what we really want, is this what we believed? Would you still bought the feature (or the car) with the same enthusiasm if you actually have to hold the wheel 100% of the time? What would drivers think of a cruise control system where you have to rest your foot on the gas or brake (or lightly press it every 10s, but not too hard) for it to function?

Autosteer means steers by itself. Having to hold the wheel, or worse, nudge it every few seconds defeats the purpose at he fundamental level. People went hands free and some got into trouble due to lack of attention not because that is what the system was implied to promise, just because you have prompts and text doesn’t mean it will be observed if it goes against core assumptions. This is not a flamethrower, this is not a car.

I understand that this may be required when due to current system limitations, but it needs to be communicated that the intention is for this to be hands free autosteer and have a timeline towards that. In the mean time, giving people the option to opt out of what is has now became a significantly less valuable system and receive a refund, or to remove the cost of this until it does what is implied would be the right thing to do.

I think there's a misconception that hands free means you aren't paying attention to the road, or more accurately that applying torque to the steering wheel somehow means you are paying attention to the road. I'm liable for any crash while on autopilot anyways, so let me choose how I want to use the feature.

 

[softwarehero]

It seems a little ridiculous that a Tesla can't stop for a fire engine parked on the freeway, a large concrete freeway barrier right in it's path, or a large elk. We're not talking about a car automatically slamming on the brakes for a small dog or bag blowing by in the wind. We are talking about large solid objects that are not moving. My friend's Jeep automatically slammed on the brakes, and hit at lower speed, a large elk on the highway last year. The automatic braking helped minimize the damage, and he was uninjured. My friend gave enough credit to the Jeep's system he shared the story in his Christmas card. If the Jeep can slam on the brakes when a large object is on the road ... why can't a Tesla do it ? Straight up. I spent $5000 on auto pilot on my new Model 3.

 

[Paul Freedman]

Turn on that camera above the rear view mirror (on the Model 3) to monitor if you are watching the road and/or holding the steering wheel, right??

 

[GatorGuy]

Not many people are complaining about getting the nag when hands are off the wheel. It's the nags when one or two hands are comfortably resting on the wheel that annoy people.

Well those are the people my comment were directed at.

Including the person who started this thread.

 

[ZoomFPV]

With the way I am seated my wrist sits on my knees ( I am a tall guy) while holding the steering wheel with both hands and my view of the top screen is blocked by the steering wheel I get the nags constantly and if I do not notice the alert the car will beep which i will immediately move the steering wheel to acknowledge I am holding it. But after the 3rd time, AP just disables.

Here is my dilemma:
1. I hold the wheel with both hands but nags keep coming. This is the most comfortable seating position due to back issues and wrist injuries.
2. I cant see the flashing alert due to position so AP gets disabled which forces me to stop on the side of the road to reactivate it. - Can tesla make the deactivation penalty not so sudden after just 3 sets of 1 beeps?

My solution for now.
I have strapped a .5 pound wrist weights on the steering wheel now. If you do a full hands off, the nag still comes, but it has now stopped when I am holding the wheel the way I normally do. What a crappy solution but it works.

 

[jnuyens]

Can't Tesla measure a (much) lighter amount of torque? I really don't mind holding my steering wheel, I do it all the time, but even in the previous interval it rarely detects my (very light) hand pressure. So I 'wobble' the steering wheel periodically. The old interval was already nearly too annoying. Love autopilot, will skip the current update. Thanks for listening, Elon!

 

[MarkS22]

I understand what you are saying. But if I were you I would try to do something about it since a lot of people are not having the problem. So why would that be the case?

I have heard for a "couple people" (not a lot) that doing a REBOOT of everything will resolve this issue of "not detecting hands on the wheel" like it did in the prior versions. If that does not work and you feel you are doing exactly what you were doing in the prior version with "hands on" then I would think you have a problem with your car. Maybe an adjustment of some kind? It is certainly very strange that simply reducing the time between NAGS from say 1 minute to say 30 seconds would somehow cause it to not detect the "hands on" in the same way. I have actually hear people say it is more sensitive and detects is easier. I can only say in my case I do not even think about it. It is simply natural for me.

I appreciate the tips and I'll try doing some reboots, but two things: I have a 2014 Model S and 2018 Model 3. They both have the same issue.

Second, this is a widespread complaint that's literally the lead story here on TMC's home page/blog:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/20...ering-wheel-will-be-updated-after-complaints/

First four sentences:

"Among the features in Tesla’s latest Autopilot update is a “nag” to make sure drivers keep their hands on the steering wheel. It has not been well received.

Autopilot is giving owners an alert every 20-30 seconds to “Hold Steering Wheel” when it doesn’t detect their hands. Many users say the alarms still sound when their hands are on the wheel."

If you browse through these and other forums, it's clearly not an isolated incident. To be clear, this has been a pain for me for years, but an acceptable one because there were a few minutes to 10+ minutes between warnings. Now it's as often as every 30 seconds. That's what changed. The poor implementation of torque monitoring for driver alertness was a smaller nuisance when when the nags were further apart. But they were absolutely there before.

 

[MarkS22]

Can't Tesla measure a (much) lighter amount of torque? I really don't mind holding my steering wheel, I do it all the time, but even in the previous interval it rarely detects my (very light) hand pressure. So I 'wobble' the steering wheel periodically. The old interval was already nearly too annoying. Love autopilot, will skip the current update. Thanks for listening, Elon!

Either the sensor isn't sensitive enough or the nag can reset from vibrations due to the car's motion. I think they're having trouble with one of these two issues. If they need a nag this regularly, they probably need new hardware. Either the Model 3's selfie camera to supplement it (and use the torque as a backup) or capacitive touch.

 

[d21mike]

I appreciate the tips and I'll try doing some reboots, but two things: I have a 2014 Model S and 2018 Model 3. They both have the same issue.

Second, this is a widespread complaint that's literally the lead story here on TMC's home page/blog:

Autopilot Alerts to ‘Hold Steering Wheel’ Will Be Updated After Complaints

First four sentences:

"Among the features in Tesla’s latest Autopilot update is a “nag” to make sure drivers keep their hands on the steering wheel. It has not been well received.

Autopilot is giving owners an alert every 20-30 seconds to “Hold Steering Wheel” when it doesn’t detect their hands. Many users say the alarms still sound when their hands are on the wheel."

If you browse through these and other forums, it's clearly not an isolated incident. To be clear, this has been a pain for me for years, but an acceptable one because there were a few minutes to 10+ minutes between warnings. Now it's as often as every 30 seconds. That's what changed. The poor implementation of torque monitoring for driver alertness was a smaller nuisance when when the nags were further apart. But they were absolutely there before.

Based on your post would you think that maybe AP1 Cars Torque Monitoring has always required more "torque". I have a AP2.5 from Sept. 2017 and it has always been a very light torque to prevent nags from every coming up. I watched a video fo a guy who shows how light you have to use torque to make the nag go away (with this version). And it is exactly like my car. There are a lot of us it appears that simply do not have a problem with the nags because they never show up with normal driving with a hand on the wheel. Maybe there is an adjustment for older cars to reduce the required torque? Good luck....

 

[jgs]

Quick, fetch my pearls so I can clutch them!

 

[davidc18]

I think the nag should be absent until the AP's AI confidence level drops below a certain threshold. I don't know what a good threshold would be, but I'm sure the engineers could come up with a safe value to use that would avoid the vast majority of nag messages people are currently receiving.

The number of objects detected and being used in the driving algorithm and the presence of crossroads and lane splits/mergers could also be a part of the confidence equation.

There were no nags at all when autopilot was initially released with FW 7.0. It would only alert when its confidence level was low so when it did alert you paid attention.

 

[whitex]

The problem is when you have one hand on the steering wheel, but the car doesn't capture it and nags you anyways. It's even worse since the dash screen no longer flashes on all four sides, but instead now only flashes on the top, which might be blocked by the steering wheel based on your line of sight and how high you use the steering wheel.

It seems the problem is you didn't follow the on-screen instructions. Notice the "s" in "hands" - that means 2 hands, not one.

 

[whitex]

Either the sensor isn't sensitive enough or the nag can reset from vibrations due to the car's motion. I think they're having trouble with one of these two issues. If they need a nag this regularly, they probably need new hardware. Either the Model 3's selfie camera to supplement it (and use the torque as a backup) or capacitive touch.

Now, let's see if Tesla pays for the hardware retrofit for all Model S/X to receive the new sensors. At least AP2+ Elon implied that Tesla will retrofit whatever hardware is necessary for free.

This btw is a common thread among experts why owning a self driving fleet is better than having it owned by customers - when you need to add or change sensors are you figure out how to build a self-driving car, it's so much simpler and cheaper.

 

[DragonWatch]

Just B happy. . .

I tried the new software update version yesterday enroute to the lake last night. Not one time did the white line appear around the dash, and wait for it, not once did the bells or whistles sound. Either I still have a firm grip at 68 or I still know how to hold the steering wheel.

I was not having trouble before either since, knock on wood, I keep my eyes glued to the road and hands on the wheel.

Which squeaky wheel does Tesla react too? There are four of them (and no spare).

Apparently I am odd. In my fifty years of legally driving I have driven everything from a VW beetle (a real one in the '60s), army jeep, later our new off the line Volvo 960 (one of the first off the line) at over 110 on the autobahn (and my wife let me do it); oh and lets not forget the one million dollar rocket launcher ~ I owned ten of them at the time. Did have a missile launcher crush two parked POVs because the left lateral failed ~ oops, thank my god I was not driving

I love this car ~ thank you very much Tesla/Elon.

 

[H2050]

Can't They just release some agreement for all AP users,
"If you sign this you cannot sue us for AP errors/glitches...etc"
I'm sure most people will sign it and have the AP with zero Nags.

 

[SO16]

Cadillac's Super Cruise Makes The Self-Driving Future Seem Possible

The Cadillac CT6 review: Super Cruise is a game-changer | Ars ...

Cadillac's hands-free feature fixes the worst parts about driving

How Tesla Autopilot compares to Cadillac Super Cruise - Business ...

The Battle for Best Semi-Autonomous System: Tesla Autopilot Vs. GM ...

2018 Cadillac CT6 Super Cruise: Can the Car Really Drive Itself ...

There is a difference between one's own laziness to acquire knowledge and "lack of proof".

Did you find any good videos from actual owners vs writers of articles who have limited experience?