And those parts (which I would describe as “more than a few”) are absolutely critical to keeping the car operational.
The Roadster actually shares only a relatively small number of parts with the Lotus it was derived from.
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Holding on to your Roadster. . .
- Thread starter JohnnyLounge21
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The Roadster actually shares only a relatively small number of parts with the Lotus it was derived from.
I think that is a valuable perspective and worth keeping in mind. Time (meaning decades) will tell...
Tex EV
Member
I'd guess the same people who will spend $200K+ on an original Audi Sport Quattro when they could easily have a tuned RS7
. We will see. Not concerned, personally. Holding on to my 1.5 because it's fun and there's nothing else like it. Its quirks and issues just make it more special to me.Maybe Roger here would pick a first-gen Roadster over the 2020
Just to put out there, the OP wasn’t mean to answer the question of “Is owning a Roadster a good investment?” but rather “Do we think the value of our cars will hold/steadily increase over time?” I think there’s been some great discussion on this and I appreciate all your thoughts a great deal.
MileHigh: I’m encouraged by a stable price seeing as I enjoy the car so much. If it can hold at $65-85K for the foreseeable future, I suppose that’s more than I can hope for.
Rudholm: This is an extremely good point. I hear you loud and clear. And I guess I’d never thought about how a car could go up 10x in value and how that would pale in comparison to an index fund over the same period.
Gregd: I’m in a very similar boat! I love the car too. . . And I totally know what you mean about hearing the coolant pump come on! Yes!
Strider: Great points all around. . . I picture those same scenarios but, for me, those are decades into the future if ever. Do I care for and maintain my Roadster all those years in the meanwhile - and how much does that cost?
DeedWest: Enjoyed these thoughts a lot
Ecarfan: Your first post is a more morbid assessment of future Roadster value – but is also quite realistic. The second post about the Porsche analog was fantastic. It pretty much makes me want to hold onto the car I love even more.
Ion_1: Pretty much my thoughts exactly, start to finish.
Jerry505: Really appreciate the overall “car collector” point of view here.
MileHigh: I’m encouraged by a stable price seeing as I enjoy the car so much. If it can hold at $65-85K for the foreseeable future, I suppose that’s more than I can hope for.
Rudholm: This is an extremely good point. I hear you loud and clear. And I guess I’d never thought about how a car could go up 10x in value and how that would pale in comparison to an index fund over the same period.
Gregd: I’m in a very similar boat! I love the car too. . . And I totally know what you mean about hearing the coolant pump come on! Yes!
Strider: Great points all around. . . I picture those same scenarios but, for me, those are decades into the future if ever. Do I care for and maintain my Roadster all those years in the meanwhile - and how much does that cost?
DeedWest: Enjoyed these thoughts a lot
Ecarfan: Your first post is a more morbid assessment of future Roadster value – but is also quite realistic. The second post about the Porsche analog was fantastic. It pretty much makes me want to hold onto the car I love even more.
Ion_1: Pretty much my thoughts exactly, start to finish.
Jerry505: Really appreciate the overall “car collector” point of view here.
Just to add a data point: I just bought #518 for $35K with 87,000+ miles. Its the lowest price I've seen (which is why I snatched it up), but also the highest mileage of those for sale.
Roadrunner13
Member
Now, this is an interesting data point to record.
What does it charge to in standard mode?
It would also be worth recording here on Tom's site:
Battery Survey « Plug In America
I was a 3000GT fan myself. My last car was a 1994 3000GT-VR/4 that was my daily driver for 17 years and 240,000 miles until I replaced it with my Roadster 2.5 Sport in 2011. I always wanted a Roadster with AWD (live in VT) and supercharging (want to travel) but man, the new Roadster is really hard for me to wrap my head around price-wise. I can only hope that it holds its value and my having pre-bought the replacement battery (so only about 5K to get the 3.0 battery) will help my car hold its value so I can find some way to afford the Roadster of my dreams. I don't need the 0-60 in 1.9 seconds, but as someone who has been known to transport harvested deer in the trunk (3 times), I need a Roadster that can handle a bigger deer!
Wait, you're wondering if a car that compares favorably (ok, beats!) cars costing 10x as much will hold its value? Of that set, the new Roadster is not the one I would worry about.
But to your needs, the new car clearly has more storage than the old one, though practically any car does. Whether it can take the place of a large 4x4 truck, I rather doubt it, but from what I saw in the videos taken at the event, I think the trunk space (without the roof stowed) could be sufficient for some pleasant family travel.
I do agree that the car's AWD and range have some considerable benefits on their own, opening up destinations that would be otherwise unreachable or only reachable at some considerable annoyance. I'm still keeping my 2010 Roadster, though I probably will go for the upgraded battery. The trunk for me has been sufficient within its travel envelope, but I tend to travel fairly light. Anything beyond that range is probably by air, train, or in a larger vehicle with family and/or friends.
If you do manage to snag one of the new Roadsters, please just promise us that you won't mount antlers on the front of the hood.
Roadster869
Member
I've enjoyed reading the comments on this topic. Here is my perspective: The Tesla Roadster will be recognized in history as the catalyst for the electric car revolution. Although I appreciate the analogies mentioned of other cars, keep in mind that there were 76,000 Porsche 356s produced - compared to 2,500 Roadsters. The new Roadster will help its value by increasing the prestige of the model. Many years from now, I can envision Tesla coming out with a replacement battery pack with 500 miles.... breathing new life into the car for the next generation. The Roadster owners on this forum will play a significant role in determining whether the car appreciates in price - depending on what price you are willing to sell it. I believe the original roadster will be seen as an important piece of automotive history but in the meantime.... it is a blast to drive!
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I hope you're right. The key is keeping our cars running until then (and beyond), and I expect the battery is the least of our worries. The PEMs, at least, seem to have a repair / refurbishment pipeline. Not sure why the others don't, and It's those other unique parts, both electrical and mechanical, that will probably be the limiting factor.
Whoever pointed out that investing in, say, index funds is much better than cars was right. They pretty much always do better, they don't require insurance, repair, etc. You're not behaving rationally if you're thinking about a car as investment.
Maybe Roadsters will hold their value better than other cars, or maybe they'll be worse. Maybe they'll even go up, and there's a tiny chance that they'll do better than a stock investment would have. If that happens, great for all of us, but it *still* would have been a bad investment idea, because the chance that that will happen is so small, and getting lucky is not the same as being good.
Buy a Roadster because you like having a Roadster. They're really fun cars, and you get a lot of attention (I'm assuming that all of the pictures people take of me aren't because of my incredible looks). Buy a Roadster because you like to own a piece of history. Buy a Roadster because they're the most environmentally friendly sports car by a really long way. Buy a Roadster because you want an Elise with more acceleration.
Don't get me wrong, I love my car. Not only that, but it also turned out to be a good investment, not because the car went up in value (it didn't), but because owning an early one made it so that I could get IPO shares in Tesla, which *were* a really good investment (I mean, I got TSLA at $17!)
But if you want to make money, do something else. Then use that money to buy a Roadster for fun!
Maybe Roadsters will hold their value better than other cars, or maybe they'll be worse. Maybe they'll even go up, and there's a tiny chance that they'll do better than a stock investment would have. If that happens, great for all of us, but it *still* would have been a bad investment idea, because the chance that that will happen is so small, and getting lucky is not the same as being good.
Buy a Roadster because you like having a Roadster. They're really fun cars, and you get a lot of attention (I'm assuming that all of the pictures people take of me aren't because of my incredible looks). Buy a Roadster because you like to own a piece of history. Buy a Roadster because they're the most environmentally friendly sports car by a really long way. Buy a Roadster because you want an Elise with more acceleration.
Don't get me wrong, I love my car. Not only that, but it also turned out to be a good investment, not because the car went up in value (it didn't), but because owning an early one made it so that I could get IPO shares in Tesla, which *were* a really good investment (I mean, I got TSLA at $17!)
But if you want to make money, do something else. Then use that money to buy a Roadster for fun!
Yes.
I might buy your car.
I do not need a Roadster 2020 for $250,000.00 to go 620 miles at 250 mph. I live 3 miles from work, and can only go as fast as 35 or maybe 50 mph.
I love to show off Tesla, but could do so just as well with an old Roadster as with a $250,000.00 Roadster.
So yes, hold on.
Vern
Okay, so go buy a Nissan Leaf. It has 6 miles of range 10X over to get you to work and back multiple times and likewise 35 MPH or maybe 50 MPH is easily achievable.
Onepointfive
Member
I think it’s a safe bet that a 2008 1.5 would have at least the same following as the Porsche 356A Speedster. There’s a reason why, for many years now, a Speedster is worth more than the fastest and latest iteration of the 911. Just look at it... it’s a classic already!
DeedWest
2008 VP & 2011 2.5 Sport
Lower production numbers of the roadster will decrease their following. Just look at the huge following of early Mustangs. Higher production numbers mean more people can own them and build a following.
I think you are confusing a following with how much a certain car goes up in value according to how desirable it is. Time will tell us those numbers.
My feeling is not to hold on to these first Roadsters as investments. Hold on to them if you like them. To say a Tesla Roadster will have "the same following as the Porsche 356A Speedster" is extremely far-fetched.
A 356 Speedster in even rough condition is worth multiples of a new 911. Whether the 1.5 Roadster ever achieves that status seems improbable, but stranger things have happened. If my 1.5 is ever worth as much as a new 2020 Roadster I know what my choice will be!
It has 88K+ miles now, and usually standard charge is 168-169. I've only range charged once, and it got up to 213. I'll add in the data
Just think, there are over 500k EVs on the road today and about 250,000k ICEs. EVs make up less than 1% of the general vehicle population. Electric vehicles are not mainstream and visitors of this forum likely make up the upper echelon of enthusiasts. We all feel like these cars are a normal part of everyday life but most people are completely oblivious to them besides reading or hearing about them here and there. Tesla has minuscule sales and market presence relative to any other car company. However, they have a massive amount of momentum and I believe the Model 3 will hit superb sales numbers in the next few years and that Teslas and other EV's will "quickly" grow, and takeover. Someday it will be the ICE's that number 500k on the road. Cars last a long time and the market is huge so no matter what this rollover will take many years, perhaps 20-40 or more.
Most car collectors are members of the general population and like everybody else, they have a sense of fear and uncertainty when it comes to EVs. Range anxiety, charge time, battery life, maintenance costs, vehicle life, these are all unknowns. Comfort will develop after seeing friends and neighbors buy in first with good experiences but today there is hesitation and overall negative energy.
In my opinion, the Roadster checks lots of important boxes for collectability.
-It is the first car ever produced by Tesla. Once there are as many Teslas as there are Fords or Chevys, people will look back at their first car with nostalgia.
-Limited quantity. 2500 is a miniscule number of cars. There are probably more car museums than that in the world.
-Sporty and High performance - It was designed to impress and turn heads from day 1. It is always easier to collect eye candy.
-It is the EV that started the electric revolution. It proved that EV's are better because they are electric. It will have long-term historical significance.
-It is associated with Elon Musk who is regarded as one of the world's greatest visionaries.
-It has an interesting history and story. Lotus chassis contract, lots of stories about technical challenges, company almost went bankrupt, AC Propulsion fiasco.
-It is fun to drive.
It's a pretty special car.
Most car collectors are members of the general population and like everybody else, they have a sense of fear and uncertainty when it comes to EVs. Range anxiety, charge time, battery life, maintenance costs, vehicle life, these are all unknowns. Comfort will develop after seeing friends and neighbors buy in first with good experiences but today there is hesitation and overall negative energy.
In my opinion, the Roadster checks lots of important boxes for collectability.
-It is the first car ever produced by Tesla. Once there are as many Teslas as there are Fords or Chevys, people will look back at their first car with nostalgia.
-Limited quantity. 2500 is a miniscule number of cars. There are probably more car museums than that in the world.
-Sporty and High performance - It was designed to impress and turn heads from day 1. It is always easier to collect eye candy.
-It is the EV that started the electric revolution. It proved that EV's are better because they are electric. It will have long-term historical significance.
-It is associated with Elon Musk who is regarded as one of the world's greatest visionaries.
-It has an interesting history and story. Lotus chassis contract, lots of stories about technical challenges, company almost went bankrupt, AC Propulsion fiasco.
-It is fun to drive.
It's a pretty special car.
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