Holding shares in a private Tesla outside the US

[avoigt]

Doesn't matter where you bought your shares. Matters where your shares are currently held (what broker, or by "direct registration")

@neroden, you seem to be very knowledgable about that matter, so thanks for shedding some light in the dark.

Question:

I bought my stocks in Germany and they have been in Europe ever since and I transferred them to the US a few months ago still with the same bank account in Germany, does that make this stock being handled like if I had a bank account in the US and my shares located there as well?

I heard that almost 22% of all stock holders are unknown to Tesla. How is that possible? Does the bank not have an obligation to name you as an owner?

 

[StefanH]

Well BNP Paribas is a highly recognizes international bank and if they cannot handle the situation for whatever situation then I would be surprised.

In my today call with them they did not give any indication that this is an issue and have given me competent answers. So, I am unclear on what basis you are uncertain. Keep me posted on your Schwab approach anyhow.

I do have the same challenge with them about my voting rights and created some pressure. When you bought Tesla shares you also bought the voting rights and the AGBs from CC/BNP does not prevent you from executing the rights. Thats what they have given to me in writing. Stocks are normally at the Depot in Luxembourg called Clearstream. They supposed to give the me the number to do the voting but did not in the past.

The bank advisors then told me they do not know why I did not got the transaction number and suggested that I transfer my Stocks from Luxembourg to a Depot in the US hoping that will help. I did that and they covered the costs understanding that something is wrong here. Now I still did not got a number last time and have asked them again to investigate and make my voting possible today.

I suggest writing a clear mail to them or call them that they are legally responsible for making sure you can execute your rights as a shareholder. Their behavior is as of my understanding against the German Stock law. So keep pushing in my case they at least try to help. The underlying issue though looks to me more with the clearing partner.

My basic rule is that I don't trust bankers so being paranoid is not bad in such a situation. I would hate have to sell a single stock and do whatever needed to avoid it.

Talked to Consors this evening and questioned them about the current situation. Of course they couldn't give me any specific information as no one really knows what exactly is going to happen. They basically said that they would try to make everything possible once they are informed about it by the depot bank. I'm slightly reassured that everything could go right. But I will nevertheless try to find an alternative.

As I bought all my TSLA shares at NASDAQ they are already located in New York. Maybe an advantage to Luxembourg, but maybe not.

 

[avoigt]

Talked to Consors this evening and questioned them about the current situation. Of course they couldn't give me any specific information as no one really knows what exactly is going to happen. They basically said that they would try to make everything possible once they are informed about it by the depot bank. I'm slightly reassured that everything could go right. But I will nevertheless try to find an alternative.

As I bought all my TSLA shares at NASDAQ they are already located in New York. Maybe an advantage to Luxembourg, but maybe not.

Thanks. So you have the CC Bank account in Germany but you shares are located in the US. Thats my situation as well.

However if the issue some people raised that we may be forced out or have o sell and buy again or that the transfer is considered a sell by tax authorities is that easy to solve than we only have to transfer all our shares to the US.

I believe CC is good bank and this people do know what the do. However to transfer the shares takes time and if the required information is available late some people may get into a trap.

 

[NicoV]

At least you got an answer, nothing on my side yet. I guess you have a larger position, so get priority

Maybe I got some priority because I stated that If they couldn’t support the go-private I would have to find a broker who does.
Or maybe because I asked the question in Dutch.
Or maybe because I got lucky by selecting the most appropriate question category. Who knows?
Most of the time I get answers within a couple of hours from them.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Always takes a few days for me, maybe because I email the general "info".

I live 1km from their offices, I could turn-up and make a scene

 

[eepic]

Thats interesting and may explain why many international holder cannot execute their voting rights. Somehow the clearing partner do not report back to the US who own the stock in their depot or the bank not to the clearing partner therefore they are not visible in the US which accounts for 21.72%. This is huge!

This is a violation of shareholder rights. Maybe its a cost issue or they just don't care and people just accept it and knowbody made them liable.

Can you explain RRSP and TFSA? Here in Europe we discuss quite normal depots and banks and brokers and wonder what the effect will be.

Important clarification about my earlier post, Bloomberg can't tell the geography 22% of accounts. I know nothing of how they get their information, but I assume by compiling public filings. I'm not an expert but I believe Tesla, or someone managing for them, would know the address of each shareholder.

With regards to RRSP and TFSA in Canada here's the simplified way I think of them. Like others said other countries have different flavours around the same ideas to encourage savings and investment.

RRSP (Registered Retirement Savings Plan)
- Put pre-tax money in, your taxable income is reduced by that amount now
- Gains within the account not taxable
- When you eventually withdraw, usually at retirement, the full amount taxable as income
- a.k.a. "Tax Deferral" account

TFSA (Tax Free Savings Account)
- Put post-tax money in
- Gains and withdrawals not taxable
- a.k.a. "Tax Shelter" account

 

[hobbes]

Wow. Usually I am happy if I post in the morning and get 3 likes when I come home.
Today I got three pages of replies to the thread I started . Thanks for participating, looks like we already have some progress and the outlook is not as bad as it seemed in the beginning.

Thanks for this thread, Hobbes. Any idea how we can transfer shares? Selling at current broker & buying at new US-based broker?

I hold my few hundred shares and German Deutsche Kreditbank. In my online banking I have the option to transfer my whole portfolio or a part of it to another broker (without selling and rebuying). From what I read this seems to be standard, so should be no problem to transfer, just have to know where they support the private shares.

Swede here wondering the same. I have TSLA in both a KF and in an ISK. Not sure what is gonna happen to these, the KF seems tricky... Considering going on a holiday to America and opening an account, any suggestion for a nice secure bank with reasonable fees?

I think you can just open an account online. Or does that make a difference, does anyone know? I looked at Interactive Brokers which a lot of people from the US seem to use and they offer their service even in German language.

EU Tesla employees perhaps needs a private equity fund set up in the EU? Could EU TSLA shareholders also convert to this?

That occured to me, too. Tesla´s employees (at least in the US) get stock as part of their salary, so if it is the same for international employees chances that Tesla will not force shareholders outside the US out while going private should increase. Maybe it would help asking them, or maybe we have employees here?

Best way to address this is to ask SpaceX employees based outside US on what is the current structure for them.

Yeah, SpaceX is probably the closest thing we have now as Elon said the structure will be very similar. However, are there even SpaceX employees outside the US?

I just talked to my Bank its Cortal Consors/ BNP Paribas. They said:

• A typical situation is that the public shares are transformed into private shares located at a US bank like Morgan Stanley who administrate and manage the affair for all stockholders.

For SpaceX Fidelity does this management of the private shares, see this at reddit: r/teslamotors - Crosspost: Asked at /r/SpaceX for former SpaceX employee to answer questions relating to private equity and liquidity events.

 

[SGordB]

Not sure if I'm stating the obvious, but, assuming TSLA shares in nonregistered Canadian accounts will be eligible for a private TSLA fund, it seems to me the solution to holding shares in registered accounts is simply to transfer them to a nonregistered account, whether directly or by selling, then transferring the money (if you don't have the money elsewhere) and buying again. I realize this can be problematic in the case of an RRSP (withholding tax for preretirement withdrawal) and there's an "opportunity cost" if you have to transfer shares or dollars out of a TFSA.

 

[SwTslaGrl]

[...]That occured to me, too. Tesla´s employees (at least in the US) get stock as part of their salary, so if it is the same for international employees chances that Tesla will not force shareholders outside the US out while going private should increase. Maybe it would help asking them, or maybe we have employees here?.

Tesla Grohmann employees gets shares or cash annually,
Tesla’s Advanced Automation group continues work on Model 3 lines as union loses popularity

 

[NicoV]

Always takes a few days for me, maybe because I email the general "info".

I live 1km from their offices, I could turn-up and make a scene

I used the online contact form when you’re logged in, and chose ‘operations on securities ‘(or whatever it is in English). Indeed, choosing the generic ‘info’ category is not good for the response time.

 

[StefanH]

I think you can just open an account online. Or does that make a difference, does anyone know? I looked at Interactive Brokers which a lot of people from the US seem to use and they offer their service even in German language.

I also thought about Interactive Brokers, cause I heard a lot of good things. But as far as I know they are located in the UK and I don't know whats going to happen after March 2019. It's too risky for me personally to move funds there without knowing if I get access to them afterwards. I looked at TM Ameritrade and Schwab as alternatives which according to their websites offer non US citizens and non US residents access.

 

[GFernandes]

Hey guys

Just got off the phone with Degiro website.

They also say they need first to understand what’s the actual corporate measures before telling me anything.

However they can ultimately give me the stock ownership ( atm it’s held under degiro name ), if that’s what’s needed to maintain a position on Tesla.

Seems like good feedback to me but still not 100% sure since they don’t seem very informed on the matter .

Cheers

 

[shootformoon]

Is it possible for somebody to open a new ETF, which only invest in tsla private shares? And people/funds that can not keep private shares can convert 1:1 to this new tsla ETF. And the ETF would provide liquidity by charging a yearly 0.5% fee?

 

[Cobos]

Thinking of all the Tesla staff here in Norway and rest of Europe it is a good point that Musk HAS to make sure they don't suddenly have to sell an pay taxes and be able to keep their stock. So it seems likely that he will make sure there is a way for them to sort of maintain what they have and most of us European stockholders should be able to piggyback on their solution?
I'm holding at Netfonds and Nordnet but I'm thinking of opening an account with Schwab and moving my shares there as I hasn't been able to vote yet on any of the measures.

 

[Ugliest1]

Not sure if I'm stating the obvious, but, assuming TSLA shares in nonregistered Canadian accounts will be eligible for a private TSLA fund, it seems to me the solution to holding shares in registered accounts is simply to transfer them to a nonregistered account, whether directly or by selling, then transferring the money (if you don't have the money elsewhere) and buying again. I realize this can be problematic in the case of an RRSP (withholding tax for preretirement withdrawal) and there's an "opportunity cost" if you have to transfer shares or dollars out of a TFSA.

I’m going with this understanding as well, and assuming my TFSA shares will have to be liquidated. I do however have 6 shares in a regular account so perhaps I’ll be able to port them over.

And, SGordB, there’s *NO* “obvious” when dealing with registered accounts and Canadian (or other??) taxes!!

 

[SPadival]

Yeah, SpaceX is probably the closest thing we have now as Elon said the structure will be very similar. However, are there even SpaceX employees outside the US?

I checked. No offices or jobs listing..

 

[Ocelot]

Phoned RBC direct investing. They do not allow any private company shares to be held in an RRSP account. Their own rules dictate this, regardless of othe laws. If anyone is invested anywhere else in Canada that will allow this, please notify myself, as I would go through the hassle of transferring to save my investment.

 

[jbih]

Elon Musk on Twitter

Text: "Def no forced sales. Hope all shareholders remain. Will be way smoother & less disruptive as a private company. Ends negative propaganda from shorts."

I bought shares at Xetra. I hope this applies to me.

 

[avoigt]

Elon Musk on Twitter

Text: "Def no forced sales. Hope all shareholders remain. Will be way smoother & less disruptive as a private company. Ends negative propaganda from shorts."

I bought shares at Xetra. I hope this applies to me.

It should. Also if you do not own private shares after the switch you won't be able to buy more. So we will be an exclusive club with likely a faster better performance of the company resulting in a batter stock performance.A week ago or so I expressed my concern that Tesla needs to invest more heavy in GF in order to manage the demand but the market won't like it and they may have to slow down. I want them to accelerate but not to slow down. Being private makes a fundamental positive difference.

 

[leonard]

Starting this as a spin-off from the Market Action thread, where quite a few investors from non-US countries have been wondering what to do to be able to keep investing in Tesla after it possibly goes private.

Ideas:

• transfer shares to a US based brogerage (Schwab, Interactive Brokers etc).
  
• @neorden said:

If people get feedback from their brokerages on what will happen to their shares, please post it here!

I am new here and do not hold any shares. I would like to buy at least one Tesla share. But I don´t know how to. Maybe somebody can explain to me how to buy one. I am from Germany and maybe a German can explain to me how he did that.