Holiday rentals - Do you ask if it’s ok to charge?

[BlueJam]

I do ask usually out of courtesy, and will work out the energy taken at 15p/kwh and give them some cash for it, its never more than about £20 a week and is the decent thing to do.
Lots of people disagree with me though, but they're wrong.

 

[hingus2000]

Interesting thread. I wonder how far we are from "roaming" electricity tariffs.

I live in a flat so can't charge from home, but we regularly visit the in-laws in the country, where I occasionally plug the car in and explain it away to the father-in-law that it might cost him £3-4 for the day and I'll get him a bottle of wine etc. Being able to plug-in anywhere, in a way that allowed me to be charged against my domestic electricity bill, would be revolutionary and would solve virtually all of the problems in this thread. Businesses could charge an access/infrastructure fee for fast charging, but for trickle charging everyone could just rely on their own electricity tariffs.

Given that the electricity market is something of a fiction anyway (in so far as we all get the same electricity and our suppliers buy it wholesale to backfill the demand of their customers), it really need not be a far fetched idea. You just need a means of "metering" your usage off-site.

 

[MrBadger]

^^^ Not too far off of the Octopus Electric Juice plan I think, albeit early days. Plug in to one of their networked charge points and the cost gets added to your Octopus electricity bill.

 

[NewbieT]

Maybe?

Smart meter-enabled electric vehicle (EV) charging trial: Beyond Off Street

 

[Banksy888]

just a flat 50p/kWh charge.

This has already been pointed out but your business model is likely to get you in trouble!

You need to read this from Ofgem.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2003/01/1970-mrp_5.pdf

 

[LongRanger]

Am aware of the OFGEM rules, It’s not hard to convert that to miles or time, there will be both 16A and 32A charging hookups available. Way too much being read into this. We’re yet to see our first EV driving guests and it’s not a business model - it’s just a simple way of allowing for the real cost of charging.

* when you wish you hadn’t posted an example to illustrate a point of view *

 

[Jason71]

This has already been pointed out but your business model is likely to get you in trouble!

You need to read this from Ofgem.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2003/01/1970-mrp_5.pdf

So does this mean all operators of ev charge point are Ofgem authorised suppliers then? Since they are all charging more per kw than they pay obviously?

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

People get upset with the cost of electricity but probably stay where a cup of coffee costs 10x the cost price and don’t get me started on mini bar prices? They have something you want, if you feels it’s too much you vote with your feet.

OP, it’s good you ask, there’s too much of a culture amongst some EV owners to just plug in anywhere and see if it charges. Unless you know who owns the supply and whether you have permission, irrespective of where the point is, rental property or public charge point, then it’s akin to trying to nick stuff. Some Tesla owners lambast other makes of EV trying to use superchargers and post pictures calling them idiots etc.. what’s the difference? They’re just trying to see if they can charge without knowing any about the charge point rules.

 

[Jason71]

People get upset with the cost of electricity but probably stay where a cup of coffee costs 10x the cost price and don’t get me started on mini bar prices? They have something you want, if you feels it’s too much you vote with your feet.

OP, it’s good you ask, there’s too much of a culture amongst some EV owners to just plug in anywhere and see if it charges. Unless you know who owns the supply and whether you have permission, irrespective of where the point is, rental property or public charge point, then it’s akin to trying to nick stuff. Some Tesla owners lambast other makes of EV trying to use superchargers and post pictures calling them idiots etc.. what’s the difference? They’re just trying to see if they can charge without knowing any about the charge point rules.

The response to the ops questions was universally yes you should tell them and offer to pay. Who are these self entitled EV owners of whom you speak who want it all for free? Don't think I have met any of them?

 

[Joelly]

We’re yet to see our first EV driving guests

This doesnt surprise me...
In all seriousness, If your place was £5-£10 more per night, but you could advertise free charging then I'd be impressed. If you dont add that but charge 50p/KW then id be avoiding you at all costs. You could always offer the money back when visitors dont have an EV.

I wish you the best of luck though, and hope you manage to make the most of the opportunity.

For my two pence, and for those that are sitting on the sidelines, I think it would depend on whether its a chain (I wouldnt ask/offer), a independent B&B at a good price (Id ask/offer), or a week in a rental property that i'm already paying an arm and a leg for (I wouldnt offer).
Please don't judge

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

As I see it, you should ask. It's not out of courtesy, it's out of safety. EV loads are continuous, which means they put more stress on circuits than other loads.

And, LongRanger, I think what you've done is great and I absolutely would expect to pay more than at home, because at your property I'd have at minimum to cover all costs, while at home the setup is a separate, upfront item. Also, make sure you advertise those charging facilities, even to visitors who don't have an EV. It'll get into their heads that there's charging everywhere.

 

[Jeeves]

Availability of an EV charge point would attract me to a rental property, one that was free to use would be even more attractive even though I would understand that was baked into the price.

I would be prepared to pay a reasonable amount extra for the electricity, and would appreciate the transparency. 50p/kWh seems high to me though, so I would be unlikely to use it and it would put me off. That said, I’m so tight that I avoid Instavolt at 35p/kWh.

 

[LongRanger]

@Joelly - I hope the below is not taken as negative towards you, just wanted to address your points from our viewpoint.

This doesnt surprise me...

Nor me .... the install isn't going in until later this week so we've not advertised charging available yet, and the context is 20 sets of guests per year in a very remote area of wales.

In all seriousness, If your place was £5-£10 more per night, but you could advertise free charging then I'd be impressed.

so I should expose my electricity consumption rate to users who have driven unlimited mileage per day (plus their travel here / prep for returning 200+ miles home) for a return of £10 on a nightly rate ? No, it doesn't make sense.

I wish you the best of luck though, and hope you manage to make the most of the opportunity.

There is no opportunity here, it's just contributing to true costs of convenience. Nobody will be forced to use it, as previously mentioned if folks want to drive 10-15 miles each way to go charge at a slightly cheaper rate that's no issue for either us or our guests.

...a week in a rental property that i'm already paying an arm and a leg for (I wouldnt offer).

We charge between £50 and £70 per night - dependent upon time of year - for a very well appointed 5* reviews cottage with complete privacy and easy access to most of Pembs. What do you consider to be expensive ?


Again - I'm not on the wind-up here, am just providing insight from the perspective of a holiday property owner that maybe isn't coining it in like the expectation would be. Not all destinations are equal

Maybe I need to just bite the bullet and apply for a SuC site planning permit / speak to Tesla. A couple of acres of land could be put to much better use than worrying about a very occasional charging use-case.

 

[bhav]

Am aware of the OFGEM rules, It’s not hard to convert that to miles or time, there will be both 16A and 32A charging hookups available. Way too much being read into this. We’re yet to see our first EV driving guests and it’s not a business model - it’s just a simple way of allowing for the real cost of charging.

* when you wish you hadn’t posted an example to illustrate a point of view *

I think a lot of the responses here are a storm in a teacup! (Like sharing Ofgem guidance...lol)

Personally, I don't classify any of this as "reselling electricity".

You're just providing a service. Otherwise you'd be charging your guests for plugging their phones in as well?!

And to the original post: personally wouldn't bother telling the host that I've plugged a car into a mains socket - it's unlikely that's going to achieve much in terms of charging given how painfully slow it is anyway!

 

[Jason71]

I think a lot of the responses here are a storm in a teacup! (Like sharing Ofgem guidance...lol)

Personally, I don't classify any of this as "reselling electricity".

You're just providing a service. Otherwise you'd be charging your guests for plugging their phones in as well?!

And to the original post: personally wouldn't bother telling the host that I've plugged a car into a 3amp mains plug - it's unlikely that's going to achieve much in terms of charging given how painfully slow it is anyway!

Who said anything about a 3 amp mains plug? is that even a thing? He said a 3 Pin socket ergo 10 amps which over night could provide 70 to 100 miles of range and use maybe £3.50s worth of electricity at a standard domestic rate.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

The response to the ops questions was universally yes you should tell them and offer to pay. Who are these self entitled EV owners of whom you speak who want it all for free? Don't think I have met any of them?

I must spend too long on owners group (both Tesla and i3) where you get a load of "why won't it charge here" or pictures of extension leads out of hotel windows so they can charge.

I think bhav also illustrates my point by saying you shouldn;t tell them

 

[bhav]

Who said anything about a 3 amp mains plug? is that even a thing? He said a 3 Pin socket ergo 10 amps which over night could provide 70 to 100 miles of range and use maybe £3.50s worth of electricity at a standard domestic rate.

Sorry I meant 10amps not 3! Updated my post. Whatever a standard mains plug outputs!

I'm still not asking permission to plug something into a mains socket *shrug*

(Unless it was specified by the host upfront that you needed to ask permission)

Edit: I should say the context for me is if I wanted to do a one off top up overnight or something (bearing in mind that overnight would only charge a third to a half of the LR battery?). I accept it's different if you're basically draining to 10% and recharging to full *every* night. But then on a mains socket how is anyone even doing that?

 

[Roy W.]

We’ve stopped a couple of times at a farm B&B on the Lincolnshire coast where they’re very eco-friendly. Not only do they offer free EV charging, but they also give 5% discount off their B&B rates if you travel by EV, or travel there using public transport. They see it as doing their little bit to encourage environmentally friendly transport.

 

[Joelly]

@Joelly - I hope the below is not taken as negative towards you, just wanted to address your points from our viewpoint.

I appreciate the heads up, you're safe - very reasonable response.

Nor me .... the install isn't going in until later this week so we've not advertised charging available yet, and the context is 20 sets of guests per year in a very remote area of wales.

well, that would make total sense, sorry if i missed this in earlier comments. (Wheres the facepalm emoji?)

We charge between £50 and £70 per night - dependent upon time of year - for a very well appointed 5* reviews cottage with complete privacy and easy access to most of Pembs. What do you consider to be expensive ?

This is cheap in my eyes, I was thinking anything over £100, maybe £1000 per week as expensive.

so I should expose my electricity consumption rate to users who have driven unlimited mileage per day (plus their travel here / prep for returning 200+ miles home) for a return of £10 on a nightly rate ? No, it doesn't make sense.

I think I disagree with you here though. you're not exposing yourself to unlimited consumption, you're limiting yourself to max 100kw ish (a full charge in a LR MS), realistically no one is going to turn up with 0% and charge to 100% assuming a reasonable electricity tariff then this is likely £14 or less. In reality this is actually 12-14 hours, depending on rate, this could be 24-28KW (assuming 2kwh through a 3 pin plug), this is now down to about £3.50 a day. Maybe this is just me and my expectations, but Even at £70 a night, if i know im only using £3.50 of electricity then i'm not being concerned about it.
If you are able to charge at 7kwh and you are in a location where you know people stay but do a lot of driving then this would be different (thinking NC500, driving holidays etc).

 

[m3gt2]

I may be different to others here but surely they should factor in utility usage? I don't like a house to be overly warm but my wife does, should she ask if we need to pay a supplement to turn heating on? Likewise some may stay in the house all day with heating, lights, cooker running yet others may just use the place to sleep in and be out all day. I'd personally say they should be including it in the cost and if they have a dedicated EV chargers installed they could look at it that they could charge more for a stay or they will possibly let the property out more often.