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Holiday Update (2021.44.25.2)- A Big Disappointment

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I'm very much looking forward to Elon's fixes. I'm expecting the font will decrease on the speed display, but maybe something else. As to the discussions? Whatever happens those will continue to be entertaining.
Maybe just remove it completely, it’s not necessary…. the car will know what speed you’re doing. It could just bing, bong, chime or such as you increase speed. You could then get used to these sounds ……the Tesla will change yhem to more amusing things like fart noises😂😂
 
From your previous post, "they work for me the majority of the time so don’t care to hear 'when they work' lol." That's at best dismissive and basically implying that anyone for whom the don't work is making it up. Not sure what other context I'm supposed to use there.

As for 'But you bought a car with only a touch screen… soooooooo…??? Trading it in?' and 'I should have known what I was getting my self into when I bought a Tesla.' Just how was I supposed to predict the future? This isn't me saying "I don't like the seats" or "I can't handle a screen." I based my decision on the UI that Tesla had in 2020. Up until now every update I have installed has been an improvement. Maybe a few things here or there that I didn't like or took some getting used to, but the overall trajectory has been up - that's been one of the joys of owning a Tesla. Until now. Now we have V11 foisted upon us. We can't go back; we're stuck with it. I also paid for FSD. To get the latest FSD update I'm required to get V11 so I don't have a choice, either. If I could go back, I would, but to imply that someone who's unhappy with the new UI has only themselves to blame is rather contemptuous.

Thank you for assuming that I haven't taken the time to learn the UI. I have learned it and I base my opinions on 3 weeks of use. I never said anything about spending 5 minutes checking tire pressure. I did say that the interface required more interaction and was distracting and that distraction is potentially deadly. Are you actually trying to argue that the new interface is easier when they've hidden things like the seat heaters and defrost and it requires more interaction to do almost everything? Automation only takes the place of controls when it works flawlessly. The automatic high beams? Nope. Automatic wipers? nope. Auto defrost? That doesn't even exist. Automatic cabin heat? Nope. Automatic seat heaters? These are probably the best of the automatic systems but I still need to change them about 40% of the time, so nope. This is the same as voice commands - it's a nice supplement but does not take the place for a good UI. If your UI requires these to be functional then you've failed. If I was resistant to change I wouldn't have purchased a Tesla in the first place. Assuming anyone with a complaint is "resistant to change" just says you can't actually consider their point of view.

Oh, I'll call it a 5000 pound battering ram gong 70 MPH. Maybe that's better?
Clearly, you’re missing the point with all of this and just want to argue. The comment was made because it’s been said a dozen times, maybe more already…move on. And still, we’re just throwing out numbers and hypotheticals here, it doesn’t prove anything right now. And never said I didn’t consider the point of view, but man is there irony in your statement there, hahahaha.

I get it you’re upset, and that’s ok. Maybe it’s not safe for you to drive a 5000-pound battering ram then.

So far off topic but I’m glad you got all of that out, again. It’s personal preference, it works for me, I like it better than the last UI by far, sorry that upsets you?
 
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Elon says….

I for one hope he listens and gives more control back to the Tesla drivers. Excellent article.
I actually don't think Elon's goal of self driving cars is a bad one. I think the younger generation (I'm talking about high schoolers or younger) mostly don't want to drive and rather be driven by someone else or the car itself. So that direction will probably work well in the future, assuming they can get there. But since I'm an already over-40 old ass, I want to drive for myself and don't see myself wanting an autonomous car until I no longer have the motor functions to safely operate a car. So perhaps a Tesla isn't in my future.

I don't have any real issues with V11 (been enjoying my drives with it so far), but if it keeps going toward the autonomous driving spectrum, I'll probably jump ship to get something that I can have fun driving myself.
 
I actually don't think Elon's goal of self driving cars is a bad one. I think the younger generation (I'm talking about high schoolers or younger) mostly don't want to drive and rather be driven by someone else or the car itself. So that direction will probably work well in the future, assuming they can get there. But since I'm an already over-40 old ass, I want to drive for myself and don't see myself wanting an autonomous car until I no longer have the motor functions to safely operate a car. So perhaps a Tesla isn't in my future.

I don't have any real issues with V11 (been enjoying my drives with it so far), but if it keeps going toward the autonomous driving spectrum, I'll probably jump ship to get something that I can have fun driving myself.
I’m a way over 40 year old ass (69 in 4 days) and I grew up when learning to drive and driving were a right of passage and helped define your independence. I’ve always enjoyed driving, so that’s not going to change. However the concept of my (or a) car picking my wife and me up at home, taking us to a desired destination for an evening out, summoning it when we are ready to leave, and then having it take us home or our next destination would be pretty damn cool. No different than Uber or Lyft I guess, but without that troublesome hooman behind the wheel.
 
Automation only takes the place of controls when it works flawlessly. The automatic high beams? Nope. Automatic wipers? nope. Auto defrost? That doesn't even exist. Automatic cabin heat? Nope. Automatic seat heaters?
According to you… I’ve hardly had any issues, if any at all with these. Wipers work flawlessly, high beams are great, don’t need auto defrost, and use your app to precondition your car, it even notifies you when it’s reached the desired temp. Auto seat heaters are fantastic!

This is the same as voice commands - it's a nice supplement but does not take the place for a good UI. If your UI requires these to be functional then you've failed.
Your definition of failure is lacking an quantitative performance measure. Earnings would say the exact opposite right now, so would stock price. And Tesla is literally leading the EV market so it’s really just in your eyes that they’ve failed you. Maybe tweet Elon, tell him your credentials and that you’re the expert on all things UI. I’m sure he’ll be very receptive to it.

Are you actually trying to argue that the new interface is easier when they've hidden things like the seat heaters and defrost and it requires more interaction to do almost everything?
No…Was never trying to argue at all, was only trying to help you see the functionality of some of these complaints and how I think it’s being over-exaggerated by A LOT… I had to double check for myself to see what was so difficult and I mean, come on man…We’re talking about this (pic) right? Literally 2 quick touches takes about the same exact time as it took before… tap and tap the seat heater on…done, same with defrost, it’s all easily accessible right there… but yet, that’s a major complaint?

D4AF337F-B7AA-4825-AC38-4519768D7CD5.jpeg
 
Automation is clearly working and there’s data to back it up…

“In Q4 2021, Tesla recorded one crash for every 4.31 million miles driven with Autopilot engaged, as per the company’s recently-released Safety Report. Tesla also recorded one crash for every 1.59 million miles when Autopilot was not engaged. Based on Tesla’s report, there is a significant difference between the results when Autopilot was activated and when drivers did not use it... For comparison, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s (NHTSA) most recent data stated there was one automobile crash every 484,000 miles driven in the United States… Tesla stated that the Model S, Model X, and Model 3 achieved the lowest overall probability of injury of any vehicle ever tested by the US government’s New Car Assessment Program (NCAP).”

 
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Pretty sure the consensus of opinion from all other vehicle manufacturers is that blind spot monitoring should be in the wing mirror NOT a centralised screen on the dashboard. Maybe not data as such but certainly pretty evident to most🤷🏼‍♂️ Also that even though wipers are mainly auto nowadays they still have a 1 level operation via a stalk not push a button to call ip a sub menu on a screen.
Maybe … just maybe there’s reasons for those being as they are.
Same as other manufacturers don’t rely on just cameras for forward detection of objects they use radar (that Tesla decided to remove). They don’t use cameras because cameras can’t see in fog or shitty conditions. That is why FSD in Tesla (current form) won’t be accepted in UK.
To my knowledge, Honda is the only other manufacturer that used a camera-based system and they are phasing it out. That should say something.

Aside from the fact that it's useless at night, my main argument against this type of system is that it forces you to look away from the road to use it. With systems that have lights on the mirrors, the light is evident as soon as you check your mirror so the system fits seamlessly into normal/safe driving habits. For a camera-based system, you have to look away from the road to check it, orient yourself to the perspective then look back up to the road. This is particularly true when merging to the left where the screen is on the opposite side of where you should be looking. Ironically, that's also the side with the biggest blind spot.

Personally I find it next to useless (They are nice to show when autopilot has the turn signal on, since they are quiet enough that they get drowned out by background noise.) I don't begrudge Tesla for implementing the system, though. It's really all they could do without a hardware retrofit and some people seem to like it, so it's there for them and everyone else can simply turn it off. No harm, no foul. Like everything else in V11, the implementation is half-baked and poorly thought out but hopefully that can be remedied in a future software update. (that's assuming Tesla changes trajectory with their UI team.)
 
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According to you… I’ve hardly had any issues, if any at all with these. Wipers work flawlessly, high beams are great, don’t need auto defrost, and use your app to precondition your car, it even notifies you when it’s reached the desired temp. Auto seat heaters are fantastic!
No, according to a large number of people here. You're probably the first person I've seen say the wipers work 'flawlessly.' Ditto the high beams - just do a search on 'disco high beams.' (I will say that the high beams are overall one of the better automated features but they are certainly not flawless.)
I wouldn't expect you to need defrost in South FL (Actually, I'm surprised you use the seat heaters.) I will say that someone in Minnesota is in a far better position to evaluate auto seat heaters and defrost than someone in Florida. I should also clarify that the 'auto' setting on the seat heaters seems to do what it's designed to do - it turns them on high, then turns them down, but that's not really 'automatic' in the true sense. I still end up turning them on and off on a regular basis.

Your definition of failure is lacking an quantitative performance measure. Earnings would say the exact opposite right now, so would stock price. And Tesla is literally leading the EV market so it’s really just in your eyes that they’ve failed you. Maybe tweet Elon, tell him your credentials and that you’re the expert on all things UI. I’m sure he’ll be very receptive to it.
Not sure what earnings or stock price have to do with the UI that was released 3 weeks ago. Most experts agree Tesla is overvalued right now, but that's not really germane to the discussion either. I'm actually bothered by Elon's tweets - "most user input is wrong"

In general, I agree - Tesla is one of, if not the best EV maker in the market. The problem for Tesla is there's a lot of competition coming up fast and Tesla risks becoming a Blackberry if it's not careful. This update is a great example. If someone would have asked me a month ago about my Tesla I would have endorsed it wholeheartedly. It has it's quirks and flaws but it's a great car and each download seemed to make it a bit better. Now I second guess that. The physical car is the same, but Tesla has shown that they won't hesitate to mess with people. Do I still recommend Tesla? I'm not so sure. Now I'd say wait and see. The problem for Tesla is that it's owners have been it's biggest source of advertisement. If they lose that right as the competition is coming up they could be in trouble.

No…Was never trying to argue at all, was only trying to help you see the functionality of some of these complaints and how I think it’s being over-exaggerated by A LOT… I had to double check for myself to see what was so difficult and I mean, come on man…We’re talking about this (pic) right? Literally 2 quick touches takes about the same exact time as it took before… tap and tap the seat heater on…done, same with defrost, it’s all easily accessible right there… but yet, that’s a major complaint?
The complaint is that we had a really good UI and Tesla made it worse. More to the point, they made it worse unnecessarily. They removed controls that were used on a regular basis by a large portion (likely majority) of the users and replaced them with blank space or access to some games. That speaks to messed up priorities.

Automation is clearly working and there’s data to back it up…

“In Q4 2021, Tesla recorded one crash for every 4.31 million miles driven with Autopilot engaged, as per the company’s recently-released Safety Report. Tesla also recorded one crash for every 1.59 million miles when Autopilot was not engaged. Based on Tesla’s report, there is a significant difference between the results when Autopilot was activated and when drivers did not use it... For comparison, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s (NHTSA) most recent data stated there was one automobile crash every 484,000 miles driven in the United States… Tesla stated that the Model S, Model X, and Model 3 achieved the lowest overall probability of injury of any vehicle ever tested by the US government’s New Car Assessment Program (NCAP).”

I have FSD and use it on a regular basis so I'm quite familiar with it. You need to consider some nuance with these statistics, though. They are largely representing autopilot on the highway which is primarily glorified TACC. It works very well and I love using it to drive to our cabin or any other time I'm on the highway.

Have you used FSD in the city? It's making steady progress (and one of the few positive gains with V11,) but it also makes a ton of mistakes. I had to stop my car from turning in front of a cement truck the other day. I also had to stop it from turning too wide and hitting another car, and that's in good weather with clear roads. FSD is a nonstarter in inclement weather. Ironically, that's when the UI is most important, too - when you need to concentrate on the road.

Just to see, I turned on FSD the other day after we'd had a snow storm. The roads had been plowed but there was still a layer of snow on them. Approaching an intersection the car was going too fast. There were no other cars around so I just left it to see what would happen - the ABS kicked in and the car slid past the stop sign, halfway into the intersection. Then proceeded to turn and accelerate as if it were a fine summer day. (I didn't use AP/FSD at all for the next 3 days until the roads were completely clear.)
 
No, according to a large number of people here. You're probably the first person I've seen say the wipers work 'flawlessly.' Ditto the high beams - just do a search on 'disco high beams.' (I will say that the high beams are overall one of the better automated features but they are certainly not flawless.)
I wouldn't expect you to need defrost in South FL (Actually, I'm surprised you use the seat heaters.) I will say that someone in Minnesota is in a far better position to evaluate auto seat heaters and defrost than someone in Florida. I should also clarify that the 'auto' setting on the seat heaters seems to do what it's designed to do - it turns them on high, then turns them down, but that's not really 'automatic' in the true sense. I still end up turning them on and off on a regular basis.


Not sure what earnings or stock price have to do with the UI that was released 3 weeks ago. Most experts agree Tesla is overvalued right now, but that's not really germane to the discussion either. I'm actually bothered by Elon's tweets - "most user input is wrong"

In general, I agree - Tesla is one of, if not the best EV maker in the market. The problem for Tesla is there's a lot of competition coming up fast and Tesla risks becoming a Blackberry if it's not careful. This update is a great example. If someone would have asked me a month ago about my Tesla I would have endorsed it wholeheartedly. It has it's quirks and flaws but it's a great car and each download seemed to make it a bit better. Now I second guess that. The physical car is the same, but Tesla has shown that they won't hesitate to mess with people. Do I still recommend Tesla? I'm not so sure. Now I'd say wait and see. The problem for Tesla is that it's owners have been it's biggest source of advertisement. If they lose that right as the competition is coming up they could be in trouble.


The complaint is that we had a really good UI and Tesla made it worse. More to the point, they made it worse unnecessarily. They removed controls that were used on a regular basis by a large portion (likely majority) of the users and replaced them with blank space or access to some games. That speaks to messed up priorities.


I have FSD and use it on a regular basis so I'm quite familiar with it. You need to consider some nuance with these statistics, though. They are largely representing autopilot on the highway which is primarily glorified TACC. It works very well and I love using it to drive to our cabin or any other time I'm on the highway.

Have you used FSD in the city? It's making steady progress (and one of the few positive gains with V11,) but it also makes a ton of mistakes. I had to stop my car from turning in front of a cement truck the other day. I also had to stop it from turning too wide and hitting another car, and that's in good weather with clear roads. FSD is a nonstarter in inclement weather. Ironically, that's when the UI is most important, too - when you need to concentrate on the road.

Just to see, I turned on FSD the other day after we'd had a snow storm. The roads had been plowed but there was still a layer of snow on them. Approaching an intersection the car was going too fast. There were no other cars around so I just left it to see what would happen - the ABS kicked in and the car slid past the stop sign, halfway into the intersection. Then proceeded to turn and accelerate as if it were a fine summer day. (I didn't use AP/FSD at all for the next 3 days until the roads were completely clear.)
FSD not allowed to be used in UK above 37mph lol. Just to contradict that, the only place allowed to use it according to Tesla is the motorway (highway to Americans) …. where the speed limit is 70mph and god help you if you try doing below 50😂😂.
 
According to you… I’ve hardly had any issues, if any at all with these. Wipers work flawlessly, high beams are great, don’t need auto defrost, and use your app to precondition your car, it even notifies you when it’s reached the desired temp. Auto seat heaters are fantastic!


Your definition of failure is lacking an quantitative performance measure. Earnings would say the exact opposite right now, so would stock price. And Tesla is literally leading the EV market so it’s really just in your eyes that they’ve failed you. Maybe tweet Elon, tell him your credentials and that you’re the expert on all things UI. I’m sure he’ll be very receptive to it.


No…Was never trying to argue at all, was only trying to help you see the functionality of some of these complaints and how I think it’s being over-exaggerated by A LOT… I had to double check for myself to see what was so difficult and I mean, come on man…We’re talking about this (pic) right? Literally 2 quick touches takes about the same exact time as it took before… tap and tap the seat heater on…done, same with defrost, it’s all easily accessible right there… but yet, that’s a major complaint?

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It is more than two quick taps. First off, if the heat is not on you have to tap the temperature. After this you need to tap the increase or decrease icon. This will bring up the climate popup with the seat heater and defrost options. That's a total of 3 taps. It was one tap before to turn on the seat heater or defrost. I think that's what people are complaining about. The manual says you should be able to touch the increase or decrease icon and the climate popup comes up. This is only the case if the HVAC is on.
 
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Pretty sure the consensus of opinion from all other vehicle manufacturers is that blind spot monitoring should be in the wing mirror NOT a centralised screen on the dashboard. Maybe not data as such but certainly pretty evident to most🤷🏼‍♂️ Also that even though wipers are mainly auto nowadays they still have a 1 level operation via a stalk not push a button to call ip a sub menu on a screen.
Maybe … just maybe there’s reasons for those being as they are.
Same as other manufacturers don’t rely on just cameras for forward detection of objects they use radar (that Tesla decided to remove). They don’t use cameras because cameras can’t see in fog or shitty conditions. That is why FSD in Tesla (current form) won’t be accepted in UK.
Pretty sure blind spot monitoring in the mirrors is irrelevant to a software update discussion. Advocate for hardware if you want, but it doesn't matter here.

As for FSD with cameras, I suspect you are not up to date with the presentation on AI day and further discussion on vector space and photon counts. Cameras see far better than the human eye, can see quite well in the dark and obscured conditions, and are more accurate than radar with Tesla's programming. The beta program is proceeding quite well with cameras only.
 
Pretty sure blind spot monitoring in the mirrors is irrelevant to a software update discussion. Advocate for hardware if you want, but it doesn't matter here.

As for FSD with cameras, I suspect you are not up to date with the presentation on AI day and further discussion on vector space and photon counts. Cameras see far better than the human eye, can see quite well in the dark and obscured conditions, and are more accurate than radar with Tesla's programming. The beta program is proceeding quite well with cameras only.
Well as Tesla decided to go with a camera image on the centre screen and calling it a “blind spot” camera it sort of brings in the actual “blind spot“ hardware used by all othe manufacturers doesn’t it. As in why oh why did BMW, Hyundai, Mercedes, VW group not use a camera function for their blind spot function? Hmmmm let me shoot this in the breeze ……because it’s a bloody stupid idea that’s why lol.

The FSD and data I provided was from the UK governments laws on driving with FSD. There is also footage of a Tesla driving using it’s camera system against a car with traditional Lidar forward detection. The traditional Lidar car stopped …..the Tesla smashed into the small child / dummy that was placed in it’s path in bad visibility. This is very recent, not old at all, calling into question the dependence of Tesla systems on camera’s over Lidar.

There’s also a reason why maritime & aviation use Lidar over camera’s…..it’s better in bad visibilty …..now you and Elon can argue until your blue in the face …… all of these other industries & manufacturers have been pissing about with this stuff for a hell of a long time. Camera’s have been tried many many times in many forms, they still don’t work as well as radar in fog or rain in varying street light no street light conditions.
 
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Automation is clearly working and there’s data to back it up…

“In Q4 2021, Tesla recorded one crash for every 4.31 million miles driven with Autopilot engaged, as per the company’s recently-released Safety Report. Tesla also recorded one crash for every 1.59 million miles when Autopilot was not engaged. Based on Tesla’s report, there is a significant difference between the results when Autopilot was activated and when drivers did not use it... For comparison, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s (NHTSA) most recent data stated there was one automobile crash every 484,000 miles driven in the United States… Tesla stated that the Model S, Model X, and Model 3 achieved the lowest overall probability of injury of any vehicle ever tested by the US government’s New Car Assessment Program (NCAP).”


LoL. Seriously?
Owners finally realized they Can’t depend on autopilot in truly challenging conditions. So they turn it off.
Most of those 4.31 million miles were just droning around on wide open interstates, slow and go traffic, places it works well with no challenges.

Just look at the YouTube videos of auto pilot response when there is a lane shift, lane split, sharp curves, barracades, emergency vehicles, parked vehicles, obstacles…..the list goes on.

Auto high beams are the worst in this car, and there‘s no doubt TACC is a total failure with phantom braking. It scared the crap out me just yesterday when it slammed on the brakes, on the interstate, for NO APPEARENT Reason. Whole family was like WTH? Experience that one time and all confidence is lost, because you never know when it’s gonna happen again.
 
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Just follow me here for a second…
There actually is NOTHING forward thinking nor streamlined about V11. In fact it’s the opposite, anybody could have done it.
They stripped all the media content out of the media player, entertainment content out of entertainment window, etc.
Turned all that content into stand alone icons, that are indecipherable, and then removed any direct way to access the feature they belong to.
How is that streamlining anything.? That’s the kind of crap that comes from an unimaginative amateur.
That’s Mickey Mouse. Give up 3 buttons for 18 icons. And thats moving forward? Get real.
And any jackass can strip the essential controls for climate and hide them in cluttered menus, leave blank space and call that innovative. NOT.
 
If there is a moderator to this forum I suggest this thread gets locked. At this point there is nothing new being contributed to either side of argument. Folks are starting to lose their ability to respectfully disagree and are resorting to hyperbolic statements.
I agree. After a few drives under the new UI, I personally don’t have much complaint. Many things have change and will take some adjustment, but it’s not horrible at all. And, many things actually make sense. 😀