That's really interesting. I didn't realize the mechanics and optics of reading the physical disk were a contributing factor. A/Ds and D/As have a similar problem even today (though not at such low sampling rates as CD anymore). They have a spec called Effective Number of Bits (ENOB) that is always less than the electrical number of bits produced per sample to quantify this loss. Sounds like the CD read/write is producing 16 bit words with an ENOB of only 13. Good to know!
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Holy crap Tidal makes the audio system come ALIVE.
- Thread starter ScoobyDoo82
- Start date
Sunvalleylaw
Member
And @Zacster This IS interestIng. In the nerdy vintage audio groups I have belonged to, some folks use good, originally high end, older CD players or even high end DVD/DVD/SACD players, with Sony transports being mentioned often even if branded differently (Oppo used Sony guts apparently) and then use different DAC’s for playback. I have an several years old Sony NS999ES which will play CD/DVD/SACD’s, hooked up to my Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ for my main system, and it seems to do a really nice job. I enjoy listening to classic/cool/mid-century jazz that way, for example. I also have a decent turntable/phono pre and all that for when I want to put on a vinyl album, just for that experience. I have a number of albums for that.
But back to the CD’s. I am currently ripping a bunch of our CD‘s (we have a ton built up over the years since 80’s/90’s into a BlueSound Vault 2 I picked up used, and then will get rid of, saving only a much smaller number for actual home play, and/or play in my truck (often PJ official bootleg CD’s or similar) when I am driving that for bigger camping trips. Will start using my new MYLR for some of those trips now though, when I am just sleeping somewhere for the night and don’t need to set up a whole camp.
But for convenience, the most common way for me to listen is via Tidal, and the Masters version as often as I can. Though I think some albums that are not “Masters” quality also sound really good if they were recorded and mastered well, and are just the equivalent of ”HI-fi” or CD Lossless.
So, I guess my goal for my new car is to get my hotspot set up for Tidal, and also have my ripped CD’s I want to have access to on my Samsung T7, so I have all of that for what I want to hear whenever. I will back up the files I rip in the BlueSound Vault on that drive (and probably another home drive) Not gonna be able to stream the 2021 October 2 Ohanafest PJ show and stuff like that via Tidal, so will be nice to have. And along the way, I will be interested to see what my ears think on various formats of the same recording. Kind of Blue could be one example. But newer stuff recorded well more modernly as well.
And not going to worry about the folks that say you can’t hear differences. I know that not to be true just based on my experience already in my cars with CD players vs. Other inputs.
I have an Oppo 93 player myself, and also my trusty old Rega Planar 3 TT that I've more recently tweaked. I've skipped the CD ripping stage though because I never thought of my CD collection as being all that great. Instead I stream on Qobuz as my regular listening, and Qobuz won out over Tidal when I had them both. But with the Tesla only having Tidal I've resubscribed. Once you have streaming it just seems unnecessary to rip CDs anyway as they're all there, even the obscure ones.
I have a digitally remastered version of Kind of Blue, in a kind of blue vinyl.
If you have an iPhone, the hotspot is a PITA because you have to remember to bring it up each time you want to use it. This is a security feature.
I have a digitally remastered version of Kind of Blue, in a kind of blue vinyl.
If you have an iPhone, the hotspot is a PITA because you have to remember to bring it up each time you want to use it. This is a security feature.
Muddy and indistinct is right. Funny that when either the hotspot is not on or not connected and the music sounds flat(not tuning, but aliveness) how angry i get that i can’t keep listening to things in 44.1. I resort to podcasts or sports. I just can’t listen to music unless it’s downloads or USB lately.
I have that Oppo a93 player that i had upgraded from an older Oppo model too, but mostly for watching Blu-Rays. Now the higher quality movie steams like from Amazon have rendered my Oppo legacy. I can’t carry around the old hardware and CD’s/DVD’s any longer. I don’t remember if it’s the Oppo is even in the cabinet anymore. i think so. But back to Tesla, If Elon decided to go with native streams thru Apple Music that could be cool too. I’d love to do some tests after that happens.
Sunvalleylaw
Member
Cool on the home gear and blue Blue!
And yes, that means I will need to get adept at creating that iPhone hotspot and just be in the habit of doing it. Kind of a pain it just won’t reestablish itself but maybe that will correct itself over time. Meanwhile, doesn’t help to bitch about it just will learn how to do it
Sunvalleylaw
Member
Oh, and then that motivates me to download music and also have music on my big flash drive has that will give me options too I guess. .
I wasn't very clear. I believe Tidal is streaming at 320 on LTE where CD quality is around 1440 - LTE can handle it easily, why does Tesla restrict it ?
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
Just taking a wild guess here. Tesla limits streaming rate to prevent the driver from watching videos in motion. The arbitrary limit stops certain apps and also may crash the browser. The Tidal "app" probably is a Progressive Web App and uses the built-in browser. Other apps such as the freeware Android Auto app have had to overcome this limit.I wasn't very clear. I believe Tidal is streaming at 320 on LTE where CD quality is around 1440 - LTE can handle it easily, why does Tesla restrict it ?
I can stream 24/192 on Qobuz using the built in browser over the LTE, well sometimes anyway. 24/96 usually works. I just can't do it while in motion due to the restrictions on showing VIDEO media through the browser, except this is audio only. So it isn't the LTE that is the restricting feature. My guess is that it has more to do with the restrictions on the contract that Tesla has with the cellular provider. They agreed to X and if everyone started using Tidal in 16/44.1 they would exceed X. For short periods it is OK to use lots of bandwidth, but music in the car is a steady use of bandwidth.
Another issue is that the browser in the car basically sucks. It is slow and doesn't support simple things like pull-down lists sometimes. Even Elon Musk has complained about the browser and wants it fixed/upgraded. So if Tidal depends on the browser, and I don't know if it does or not, that could also be a limiting factor. But still, I can stream 24/96 in the browser while stationary so that isn't the real limitation.
Another issue is that the browser in the car basically sucks. It is slow and doesn't support simple things like pull-down lists sometimes. Even Elon Musk has complained about the browser and wants it fixed/upgraded. So if Tidal depends on the browser, and I don't know if it does or not, that could also be a limiting factor. But still, I can stream 24/96 in the browser while stationary so that isn't the real limitation.
I think this makes sense. In order for Tesla to include cellular service in every car and also to offer premium connectivity for just 99/yr they probably have to agree to a contracted bitrate for various services with the cellular provider. It would be nice to see a list of the current limits.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
OMFG
I'm so happy I read this tread. What a difference! Just signed up for Tidal, played a few songs while sitting in my garage and could not believe the difference. This takes the Tesla experience to a whole new level. Thank you all for sharing this!!!
I'm so happy I read this tread. What a difference! Just signed up for Tidal, played a few songs while sitting in my garage and could not believe the difference. This takes the Tesla experience to a whole new level. Thank you all for sharing this!!!
Think about this statistically. What percentage of owners are watching a video at any given time, especially since you can't watch and drive? Maybe .001%? If that? Now consider what percentage of owners are listening to music while driving. 10%? 5%? The percentage of listeners is much higher. And 10% sounds low to me since the first thing I do in the car is turn on music. In any case it is a much higher percentage of owners, and the contract is based on a lower statistical usage. The contract isn't an individual one, it is with Tesla as a whole.
It is a huge difference to my ears. I never understood how MP3 even became acceptable.
If interested, look up "Mother of the MP3" and you can find the story of Suzanne Vega, "Tom's Diner" and the MP3.
Sunvalleylaw
Member
It would be great if there were a Roon ARC integration, so that that interface could be used, including with FLAC's on hard drives.
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