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Home Charge Points Discussion and Suggestions [megathread]

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#181
I have no commercial connection with this company but received this reply to a couple of questions from me regarding the reliability of their products and have been given the OK to reprint here.

Thank you for your interest in our products and the link to the forum.

As one of your colleagues has pointed out there are a lot of fakes etc that come over from that part of the world but we are a UK based distributor of Circuit protection with a combined experience of over 50 years.

All our products whether they are for the EV market or the standard domestic market are thoroughly checked and tested before leaving the factory and all of them carry the required certification for the UK market.

As a responsible distributor we ensure all our products are manufactured in ISO certified factories and we have an Engineer based in China who oversees the quality control and testing of our products and test reports are provided to show they have been Electrically and Mechanically tested to provide the required protection.

We have sold quite a number of these units along with RCBOs and the Enclosures and they are used by some of the big names in the EV market.

I hope this helps and although we cannot publish the test reports as they contain commercially sensitive information we would happily supply CE Certificates and spec sheets to show our compliance with all UK Regulations.

Kind Regards

David Tierney

MD
 
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Reactions: Glan gluaisne
#182
Sounds like one of a rare breed, a responsible and conscientious supplier. Credit to him for being so clear about the way that product conformity testing has been confirmed, especially as there are so many companies just buying the cheapest stuff they can find from the Far East and not doing anything, if much, in the way of proper verification.

A lot of products from China are of high quality, many everyday things like iPhones or even some of the key components within Teslas, the primary issue, IMHO, is that it's just too easy for someone to do a cheap deal with a less than scrupulous manufacturer, with the consequence that dodgy products end up in the UK market (the Rolec fiasco with all the hundreds of burned out RCBOs being a case in question - they were not compliant with the markings they carried, proven eventually when a tear-down showed the inadequately sized internal connections).

This unit looks to be a neat way of providing both Type B RCD and also current overload protection for a charge point supply for a non-PME installation. What would be even more useful would be if they consider offering this unit with open PEN protection as well, so it could be used for PME installations, especially as most UK domestic installations are probably PME.
 
#183
He did mention a comparison with that supplier who had many failures but didn't want that sentence publishing for obvious reasons.

I have installed the unit which replaced the original breakers in a plastic box. It looks much more professional. My supply incomer has a seperate earth (old 3 phase lead sheathed incomer using one phase) so should be ok without the open PEN protection.

That video above though is unbelievable. To think that they have manufactured it and even rated it for 6A unless the Chinese use 6A rated supply isolators! ;)
 
#186
RedMod3 said:
Not sure why these installs cost so much. I fitted by Tesla charger to a wall in our garage and ran a cable from it via a wattmeter (so I can measure charge used) to the "fuseboard". £460 for the charger and £50 for parts.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a non compliant setup to me unless you already had a type-B RCD which on its own would have set you back > £100. Add in they are building control notified work which if you DIY would add several £££ to get building control sign off and the numbers soon add up. Building control signoff comes as part of the electricians costs.
 
#187
VanillaAir_UK said:
Sounds like a non compliant setup to me unless you already had a type-B RCD which on its own would have set you back > £100. Add in they are building control notified work which if you DIY would add several £££ to get building control sign off and the numbers soon add up. Building control signoff comes as part of the electricians costs.
Click to expand...
Seems a very bureaucratic process to me as adding a cable to a 40Amp breaker to a 63Amp RCD protected circuit is actually no different to plugging an extra 13A socket into a circuit. However, I accept rules are rules, but some in my opinion are unnecessary.
 
#188
RedMod3 said:
Not sure why these installs cost so much. I fitted by Tesla charger to a wall in our garage and ran a cable from it via a wattmeter (so I can measure charge used) to the "fuseboard". £460 for the charger and £50 for parts.
Click to expand...

RedMod3 said:
Seems a very bureaucratic process to me as adding a cable to a 40Amp breaker to a 63Amp RCD protected circuit is actually no different to plugging an extra 13A socket into a circuit. However, I accept rules are rules, but some in my opinion are unnecessary.
Click to expand...

The regs are clear

You MUST fit a Type B RCD, or equivalent DC tolerant earth leakage device, when installing any charge point that does not include DC tolerant earth leakage protection, in accordance with Section 722 of BS7671:2018, Amendment 1. In addition, if the installation is TN-C-S/PME and the charge cable could reach outside the garage, then you MUST also install some form of open PEN fault detection, again unless this is included within the charge point.

The Tesla wall connector does not include either DC tolerant earth leakage protection nor does it include open PEN protection, so MUST be wired to a supply that includes this level of protection. In particular, an open PEN fault, if you have a TN-C-S/PME installation, could cause the body of the car to rise to a lethal electric shock risk potential, so for the safety of yourself and anyone that may touch the car when it's plugged in this is essential, as well as being a requirement.

Also, as you're in England, the installation of any power outlet for charging an EV, or any outdoor outlet come to that, MUST comply with Building Regulations and be approved to Part P, with a certificate lodged with Building Control. Failure to comply with this is an offence that carries a hefty fine or prison sentence.

If you cannot understand the risks involved in what you have done, then I would very politely suggest that you probably aren't sufficiently competent to have undertaken the work. The regs do not define the level of competence required, but there is an assumption that a basic understanding of the wiring regs is fundamental to competence. Out of interest, did you also assess that the maximum demand with the charge point installed would not exceed that allowable from the incoming supply, and did you also inform the DNO of the charge point installation, which is another requirement, designed to ensure than the local LV network has the required capacity?
 
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#189
Glan gluaisne said:
The regs are clear
Click to expand...

Thanks, I've getting a professionally installed BP Chargemaster 22kW charger installed very soon, and it will be installed in accordance with the regs. It is interesting that our Solar PV system does not have a Type B RCD installed as standard.

We do have a PME system and the cable would never be outside the garage. We used to have storage heaters installed which we have now removed and the night load even when charging an EV is much less than it used to be.

Currently, the charger is connected to E7, and only powered up when needed and the car is never touched during the charging period.

Appreciate your advice, all will be sorted within a month or so, meanwhile, I'll take extra precautions.
 
#190
Sounds sensible.

Some PV systems were badly installed, without DC tolerant RCD protection years ago, but most PV system inverters made in recent years have pretty extensive in-built fault detection now, that includes a DC and AC earth leakage check, much like many newer charge points. Our 7 year old PV inverter has such a built-in capability, for example, so is just wired to a 32A RCBO, that has a Type A RCD characteristic. It only needs the RCBO for the same reason as a charge point with built-in DC tolerant earth leakage detection needs something similar, and that's to provide a manually resettable trip in the event of a fault (the built-in fault detection can be reset if the power goes off and back on again, which isn't acceptable as far as the regs are concerned).

There are quite a lot of non-compliant charge point installations around, I must have sorted out at least a dozen, just in this local area. For some reason it took a long time for some electricians to understand the protection requirements, although these are far from new, or even wholly specific to EV charge points. There's always been a requirement for open PEN protection for any outdoor installation connected to a PME supply where there might be exposed conducting parts that are connected to the supply protective earth. Caravan hook up points and things like metal sheds, garages and greenhouses, plus hot tubs, are all fairly common examples. The standard way of resolving this for years has been to just install an earth electrode and RCD, with the outdoor installation wired as TT. It's still the best way to provide open PEN protection, IMHO.

The DC tolerant earth leakage protection requirement is a bit newer, IIRC it first appeared about 7 or 8 years ago, as a requirement for charge points installed with a grant, as well as PV installations and anything where there might be a risk of an AC or pulsed AC RCD being blinded by a small DC leakage current. The problem has always been that Type B RCDs are expensive. Until a year or so ago the cheapest were around £300, and although they are now down to a bit over £100, they are still relatively expensive when compared with a normal Type A, at maybe ~£20.
 
#191
HenryT said:
On the tethered/non-tethered argument, I would go for tethered every time. Don't need the hassle of putting a wet cable away every time you use it. Leave your cable in the boot and get the tethered version of whichever charger you go for.
Click to expand...

Definitely that. You want home charging to be as painless as possible. Anything that gets in the way of that is to be avoided IMHO. Though only an occasional charge may be needed during lockdown in more normal times you really want to feel able to plug in every time you get home without it seeming to be a hassle (which it can be with the extra cable management of a non tethered charge point). With that habit established you are always topped up ... can use "shore power" to warm the car in the morning and don't have to think about range 99% of the time. (The cable supplied with the car being needed for AC public charge points.)
 
#192
Adopado said:
Definitely that. You want home charging to be as painless as possible. Anything that gets in the way of that is to be avoided IMHO. Though only an occasional charge may be needed during lockdown in more normal times you really want to feel able to plug in every time you get home without it seeming to be a hassle (which it can be with the extra cable management of a non tethered charge point). With that habit established you are always topped up ... can use "shore power" to warm the car in the morning and don't have to think about range 99% of the time. (The cable supplied with the car being needed for AC public charge points.)
Click to expand...
Thanks. I was wobbling on the tethered aspect initially - not future proofed etc. - but you've reassured me! Thanks agian.
 
#194
I was initially thinking about buying an i3 but that did not go very well but in the mean time i've installed podpoint home charger (7v) - tethered one (type 2). As my plan changed now I am expecting my M3SR+ in a week time. Just wondering whether the tethered Type 2 is compatible with Tesla charge port. Hope one of the group member can clarify this as bit worried now!
 
#195
spdpsba said:
I was initially thinking about buying an i3 but that did not go very well but in the mean time i've installed podpoint home charger (7v) - tethered one (type 2). As my plan changed now I am expecting my M3SR+ in a week time. Just wondering whether the tethered Type 2 is compatible with Tesla charge port. Hope one of the group member can clarify this as bit worried now!
Click to expand...
I have a tethered pod point unit and it works great.

Any Type 2 charger will be compatible with the car. Untethered just means you have to faff around plugging the cable in at both ends and storing it out of sight when not in use.
 
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