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Home Charge Points Discussion and Suggestions [megathread]
- Thread starter Bootneckshuffl
- Start date
My Ohme wall charger does have an earth rod.
Still think most charge points out there do need an earth rod to comply with UK regs.
No, it has built in PEN fault protection. That seems to be the increasing trend.
HenryT
Active Member
Mine doesn't. I asked if one was needed and I was told that there are alternative ways to deal with it, still within regs, and consequently mine has some kind of second box on the wall above the charger, but on the inside of the garage wall. The charger itself is outside.
I don't have a clue what the technical name/description of what they did is, but I'm sure they are doing what is required to comply.
Chapter and verse on the 'how' here - Why Pod Point homechargers do not require an earth rod | Pod Point
(Still all passes me by!)
Moderator comment - please use this thread to post charge point Q/A, comments and suggestions regarding charge points
Hi all - ordering a M3P next week on salary sacrifice.
I got a quote for an install of an Andersen charge point yesterday - sadly I have an incredibly long garden which has the installation coming in at about £1000 and am unlikely to qualify for the OLEV grant due to not having off street parking. I do live on a private road and have a dedicated space to park, but I don't have that plot of land on my title plan, which I'm told will be a likely refusal.
In the interests of trying to not spend a huge amount of money are there any suggestions on charge point that are cheaper than the Andersen that are decent? I spoke to the installer about the Tesla Wall Connector, which is cheaper but requires a type B RCD fitting which is circa £200 and takes the cost up towards the Andersen.
Cheers!
Hi all - ordering a M3P next week on salary sacrifice.
I got a quote for an install of an Andersen charge point yesterday - sadly I have an incredibly long garden which has the installation coming in at about £1000 and am unlikely to qualify for the OLEV grant due to not having off street parking. I do live on a private road and have a dedicated space to park, but I don't have that plot of land on my title plan, which I'm told will be a likely refusal.
In the interests of trying to not spend a huge amount of money are there any suggestions on charge point that are cheaper than the Andersen that are decent? I spoke to the installer about the Tesla Wall Connector, which is cheaper but requires a type B RCD fitting which is circa £200 and takes the cost up towards the Andersen.
Cheers!
Last edited by a moderator:
Jason71
Well-Known Member
unless you have special conditions like solar they all work pretty much the same. They are little more than a big switch when it comes down to it. I have not read any threads about any that work poorly with Teslas. So it really comes down to price and aesthetics. The chargers themselves usually cost baout £400-500. + installation.
I recommend getting a tethered one for convenience.
Personally I have a Rolec and it does what it says on the box. its ugly but its hidden from general view so I don't care.
I recommend getting a tethered one for convenience.
Personally I have a Rolec and it does what it says on the box. its ugly but its hidden from general view so I don't care.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
The Anderson range look very nice, but they are very much at the top of the upper end when it come to price. A basic charge point can cost as little as £250 to buy, it's almost always the installation that is the lion's share of the cost, although sometimes it does seem as if the availability of the grant pushes prices up a bit.
I did a breakdown of a budget installation materials cost in this thread that might give an idea of what things cost: Basic charge point costs
Supply cable length doesn't make a massive difference, roughly £3 per metre or so, plus the additional time to install the cable.
Best bet might be to contact a reliable local electrician who is familiar with charge point installations and discuss options. Some charge points don't require a Type B RCD now, as they have integral DC tolerant earth leakage protection, and one or two don't need to be wired as a TT installation, to provide open PEN protection.
Much of the installation cost comes from the more awkward parts of the "mechanical" installation, running cables through awkward spaces, finding the best location for the supply end parts, etc Actually wiring up the charge point and the supply end is maybe only about 20% of the work (and cost), and so you may be able to reduce cost by agreeing with an electrician some DIY work you can do, to make things easier and quicker.
Normally a charge point installation shouldn't take more than a day at the most, and often they only take three or four hours. The labour cost shouldn't be that high, depending on what prices are like where you are. Here, in the south, we pay around £220 per day for a decent electrician, but for somewhere like London the rate is typically closer to £400/day. Not sure what the rates are in your neck of the woods, but it's unlikely they'd be higher than London prices.
Thanks for that - very informative post. I was told that doe to the 32 metre length of the run I'd be in for a thicker cable due to voltage drop over the length. I guess not knowing if you will get the grant until after arranging install also plays a part on deciding. Reading some "do i qualify" FAQ's it would appear I'm borderline...
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
The standard 6mm² cable used on the majority of installations would be fine over 32m, no voltage drop issue at all, it's well inside the 5% limit, at just 2.93% for 32 A charge current.
6mm² SWA cable is roughly £3/m (inc VAT), so about £96 or thereabouts. I can buy it locally for a fair bit less than that, last 100m reel cost me ~£240 inc VAT from one of the local factors.
If you decide that you’re not eligible for the OLEV grant I’d certainly consider the Tesla Wall Connector. The unit itself is £360 from Tesla, but you’ll probably be looking at a total of £1000 fitted.
Before the Tesla I’ve had a Leaf and a Kona electric, and had a Rolec charger installed under the grant in 2015. I had it swapped last year for the Tesla unit and the build quality is like chalk and cheese. The old Rolec was light and clunky, the Tesla is very nicely finished. You also get the advantage of the button on the plug to open the car charge port.
Before the Tesla I’ve had a Leaf and a Kona electric, and had a Rolec charger installed under the grant in 2015. I had it swapped last year for the Tesla unit and the build quality is like chalk and cheese. The old Rolec was light and clunky, the Tesla is very nicely finished. You also get the advantage of the button on the plug to open the car charge port.
fancealot
Member
I've got a podpoint coming from my salary sacrifice, it's a little big due to the design being a disc, but can't really complain, podpoint have been great going through the OLEV grant application (speak to one of the companies and see what they say about your parking etc) and it's only my issues with the house mains being a looped supply which has slowed down the install.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
I'd second that, the TWC is better made that a lot of the other units, particularly the cable and connector. At £460 it's not that expensive, either, about half the price of an Andersen (the Anderson unit costs about £995, excluding installation and the OLEV grant), or about twice the price of the cheapest charge point on the market.
Only downside with the TWC is that it still needs a Type B RCD and wiring as TT installation with an earth rod, or connecting with something like an O-PEN unit, to comply with the regs (for a 32m run down a garden I'd always go for wiring it as TT, anyway). The same installation requirement applies to quite a few other charge points though, probably the majority of those currently available, and Type B RCDs are coming down in price, they now retail for about £114, rather than the £200+ they were going for a year or so ago.
Another possibility is to use the Ohme charger that plugs into a commando socket. If you sign up to Octopus they sell them for £200. It has a built in DC fault current trip.
Octopus Energy (Ohme link)
You could maybe use my Octopus referral and we both get £50.
Octopus Energy (Ohme link)
You could maybe use my Octopus referral and we both get £50.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
Sadly, the fact that the Ohme has DC tolerant protection makes no difference to the requirement to include DC tolerant leakage protection to the interlocked commando outlet. The regs apply to the fixed part of the installation, not appliances, and the Ohme unit is classified as an appliance, not a part of the fixed installation, so it cannot be included on the EIC and Part P certificates.
The regs are unambiguous, in that any electrical outlet that is intended for charging an EV* has to comply with the requirements of Section 722 of BS7671:2018, Amendment 1. This means that an interlocked commando outlet (and it must be interlocked - there is a need to ensure that the power is turned off before the connector can be removed) must have both DC tolerant earth leakage protection and open PEN protection.
The reason for this being a mandatory requirement is because there is no way of knowing whether or not an appropriate appliance will always be used with any outlet. Someone may plug some other charge point box into the commando, that doesn't have adequate DC leakage protection, for example.
* It isn't just EV charging that has the requirement for open PEN protection and suitable RCD protection, either. Any outlet that may be connected to anything with exposed conductive parts, such as a heater in a metal shed or greenhouse, or a caravan power supply, also needs to have open PEN protection and RCD protection. This is a long-standing requirement, that goes back earlier than the current edition of the regs (I think it came in with either the 16th or 17th Editions).
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
I've just reworked the prices for the basic options from that other thread, to account for needing 32m of 2 core 6mm² SWA rather than the 10m of 3 core that I'd included originally. There's no real point in running 3 core, as at that length from the house it doesn't make sense to wire the installation using the exported PE from the incoming supply, it would be cheaper, safer and simpler to just fit an RCD and earth electrode at the charge point end, as long as there is no risk of two different earthing systems being within touching distance of each other. Using 2 core 6mm² SWA reduces the price per metre down to around £2/m.
I don't know whether you have a sheltered location where the charge point is going to be installed, but if not, it's no problem to just fit the required RCD, either Type A for a DC leakage current protected fixed charge point, or Type B for one that doesn't have DC protection, or for the commando outlet options. One can easily be fitted in a small weatherproof enclosure, like the 3 module Wylex one that retails for ~£11 inc VAT. The earth electrode can be set down into the ground with an underground box over the termination easily enough, usually, as long as there is somewhere clear of other services for it to go, that's still relatively close to the parking space. An O-PEN device as an alternative to fitting an earth electrode, as in the original option 2, isn't a good choice when you have to export the PE for this sort of distance down a garden.
Option 1 is to charge using the Tesla supplied UMC, together with the optional 32 A Commando adapter lead, connected to a 32 A interlocked Commando outlet. Protection is via a 40 A Type B RCD, with a 40 A MCB for over-current protection, with an earth electrode being installed close to the vehicle charging point location. Total cost of all materials, including the Tesla 32 A Commando adapter needed, is ~£350
Option 2 would have been as above, but using an O-PEN device, rather than an earth electrode, but in this case that's not a good solution.
Option 3 uses the cheapest non-tethered charge point I could find, the Qubev unit, that has a Type 2 outlet, plus variable charge current via a switch on the side. This avoids having to use the UMC supplied with the car, plus the Commando adapter lead, and can be used with the Type 2 lead supplied with the car. If this is installed with an earth electrode etc, as per Option 1 above (essentially just swapping the interlocked Commando for the Qubev charge point) then the total cost of all materials comes to ~£498
Option 4 is the same as Option 3, but uses the version of the Qubev that has 18th Ed Amdt 1 protection, so avoids the need to use a Type B RCD. Total cost of materials comes to ~£468
Option 5 would have been the same as Option 4,but using an O-PEN device, rather than an earth electrode, but in this case that's not a good solution.
As another option, I've costed up the materials for installing a Tesla Wall Connector (TWC), with an earth electrode and Type B RCD protection. That comes to ~£768
As before, labour needs to be added to these prices, probably best to allow for a day, so roughly £220 (perhaps + VAT).
I don't know whether you have a sheltered location where the charge point is going to be installed, but if not, it's no problem to just fit the required RCD, either Type A for a DC leakage current protected fixed charge point, or Type B for one that doesn't have DC protection, or for the commando outlet options. One can easily be fitted in a small weatherproof enclosure, like the 3 module Wylex one that retails for ~£11 inc VAT. The earth electrode can be set down into the ground with an underground box over the termination easily enough, usually, as long as there is somewhere clear of other services for it to go, that's still relatively close to the parking space. An O-PEN device as an alternative to fitting an earth electrode, as in the original option 2, isn't a good choice when you have to export the PE for this sort of distance down a garden.
Option 1 is to charge using the Tesla supplied UMC, together with the optional 32 A Commando adapter lead, connected to a 32 A interlocked Commando outlet. Protection is via a 40 A Type B RCD, with a 40 A MCB for over-current protection, with an earth electrode being installed close to the vehicle charging point location. Total cost of all materials, including the Tesla 32 A Commando adapter needed, is ~£350
Option 2 would have been as above, but using an O-PEN device, rather than an earth electrode, but in this case that's not a good solution.
Option 3 uses the cheapest non-tethered charge point I could find, the Qubev unit, that has a Type 2 outlet, plus variable charge current via a switch on the side. This avoids having to use the UMC supplied with the car, plus the Commando adapter lead, and can be used with the Type 2 lead supplied with the car. If this is installed with an earth electrode etc, as per Option 1 above (essentially just swapping the interlocked Commando for the Qubev charge point) then the total cost of all materials comes to ~£498
Option 4 is the same as Option 3, but uses the version of the Qubev that has 18th Ed Amdt 1 protection, so avoids the need to use a Type B RCD. Total cost of materials comes to ~£468
Option 5 would have been the same as Option 4,but using an O-PEN device, rather than an earth electrode, but in this case that's not a good solution.
As another option, I've costed up the materials for installing a Tesla Wall Connector (TWC), with an earth electrode and Type B RCD protection. That comes to ~£768
As before, labour needs to be added to these prices, probably best to allow for a day, so roughly £220 (perhaps + VAT).
Well that's all a rather expensive pain in the posterior isn't it ? Talk about overkill. Having said that I appreciate DC shocks tend to be nasty having had a 120V shock off a standby battery pack many years ago.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
Well that's all a rather expensive pain in the posterior isn't it ?
Yes, it is really, and has been for a long time (since at least some time around 2012/2013, IIRC). The issue has been that there has been a lot of misinformation about the regulatory requirements for outlets for charging EVs, and, for some reason, some electricians didn't apply the long-standing regs that have applied to outlets for things like caravans, metal sheds, metal framed greenhouses etc for many years now, to outlets for charging metal-bodied vehicles.
I'm not sure why this happened, as it's pretty much always been the case that any outlet that may be used to connect to something outdoors that has exposed conductive parts has had to be both RCD protected and wired as a TT installation, to provide open PEN protection. All EVs have done is add the same requirements that apply to anything else that may have a DC earth leakage component, like a solar panel inverter, to the RCD specification.
FWIW, there are an awful lot of solar panel installations that are not compliant with this requirement, too, as despite it being clear in the regs that a Type B RCD is needed, unless the inverter contains an isolation transformer (and none do now), many installers (most?) have been breaking the rules and only fitting a Type A. Arguably it might be argued that, for many solar panel installations, the metal parts cannot be easily touched, although for the chap up a metal ladder, cleaning the gutters, or, perhaps, the panels themselves, that may not be the case.
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