mknox
Well-Known Member
Happy to help if I can. These are my On, Mid and Off Peak all-in rates and are fairly typical for an urban customer. Just multiply by how many kWhrs you put into your car to get dollars.
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Home Charging cost Ontario
- Thread starter Darthbenji
- Start date
Happy to help if I can. These are my On, Mid and Off Peak all-in rates and are fairly typical for an urban customer. Just multiply by how many kWhrs you put into your car to get dollars.
Struja
“Frost”
So, since you and I are both in Toronto, I would assume we pay the same rates. The numbers you gave are as follows:
Off Peak: $0.0974 / kWh
Mid Peak: $0.1289 / kWh
On Peak: $0.1702 / kWh
According to the evtripping website, my "average daily charge" is 16.9 kw/h. So, 16.9 x $0.0974 = is a $1.65 per day. Would that be correct?
If so, my yearly cost would be just over $600.
Right now, I am driving less than when I had my Lexus, but the last full year of the Lexus I spent just under $5,000.00 for gas (premium gas only).
mknox
Well-Known Member
Yep. Technically, I'm in Brampton, but Alectra-Brampton Hydro and Toronto Hydro rates are going to be close enough for the type of ballparking we're doing here anyway.
EVs are surprisingly cheap to fuel. I calculated that if I drove my former Model S the so-called average 20,000 km a year (I actually did about 30k) it would use the same amount of electricity as my electric water heater. I also calculated that my regular GTA to Chicago tips, if I had to pay at Ontario rates, would cost about $20. Of course, I can supercharge for free, so I don't even spend the 20 bucks.
Be aware though, that you will use more in the winter. Electric heat, decreased efficiency and any pre-heating you do on shore power will add to your electricity bill.
I am expecting a FLOOD of new Model 3 owners who get their cars over the summer to be going NUTS next fall/winter when the weather gets cold and their efficiency drops accordingly.
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
Is this calculator more or less accurate?
Bill calculator | Ontario Energy Board
I live in Upper Scarborough and used this to calculate ~0.106/kW including delivery, regulatory, and taxes.
Supplier is Toronto Hydro.
Bill calculator | Ontario Energy Board
I live in Upper Scarborough and used this to calculate ~0.106/kW including delivery, regulatory, and taxes.
Supplier is Toronto Hydro.
The calculator generates numbers that are close to my bill, so "yes".
If you are trying to calculate the cost for charging an EV, take the kWh used for the vehicle, multiply it by the TOU use rate and add a portion of the delivery charge proportional to the overall bill (kWh). That will get you into the right ball park.
Short answer 1/4 to 1/5 of the cost of petroleum.
swotam
Member
Just got my Model 3 RWD LR in the GTA last week and was looking at my usage over the past few days to get an idea of charging cost. The car says I've been averaging approximately 200 Wh per Km, which equals approximately 1 kWh per 5 Km (?) and seems reasonable given the chilly temperatures these days. Assuming I'm doing the conversion correctly then a 100 Km drive would use ~20 kWh of charge, which (using off-peak Ontario pricing) would only cost around $2.00!
So much cheaper than gas!
So much cheaper than gas!
It's certainly true that it will be much cheaper than gas, but you're missing out on some factors which, in real world use, will make them a bit closer than your calculations. First, batteries aren't perfectly efficient in round-trip charging. So, in order to get the 20 kWh of useful electricity out of the battery you probably have to charge it up with between 22-25 kWh from the grid. Also, while you may be getting 200 Wh/km during the actual driving, if you're preheating the car while it is still connected then you'll be using extra "shore power" to warm up which won't be reflected in your driving efficiency. Also, the car has some small amount of vampire drain that will lose charge without doing the "useful" work of moving you places. The end result is that you're probably actually paying closer to $3.00/100km. But even that is going to put you well ahead of gas.
swotam
Member
Thanks for pointing out and explaining this, I'm not entirely up to speed with the efficiency stuff but understand the concept, and as you say even $3.00/100Km is still a lot cheaper than gas (especially premium gas).
mknox
Well-Known Member
Not to put to fine a point on it, but your electricity costs may be a bit higher than you think as well. If your looking at the TOU tiers that are published, that number does not include Delivery or Regulatory charges nor GST and Loss Adjustment. If you are with an urban utility, your all in, loss adjusted tax included Off Peak rate is around 9.3 cents / kWh
swotam
Member
I’m in Milton so I assume that’s urban (or suburban) enough to be in the ballpark of 10 cents per kWh during off-peak, give or take. I’ll have to look at some of my past bills to get a better idea.
ig_epower
Member
Interesting topic - I too have compared the gas consumption of my ICE vehicles to my MS and I have estimated a 4:1 cost ratio (gas:electricity). That excludes my road trips where I use the free SC. If I included SC trips, I probably would be experiencing a 5:1 cost benefit. My rates are based on GTA electricity and gas.
Additionally, I think my gas consumption would be much worse if I treated it like my EV (which is to accelerate pretty much as freely as I feel is safe to do so, and sit waiting for my kids in my car with the heat or AC on). I have always told people that the Tesla miles have been "happy miles". The joy of unabated driving without the same cost ramifications of having to pay for fossil fuel!
Additionally, I think my gas consumption would be much worse if I treated it like my EV (which is to accelerate pretty much as freely as I feel is safe to do so, and sit waiting for my kids in my car with the heat or AC on). I have always told people that the Tesla miles have been "happy miles". The joy of unabated driving without the same cost ramifications of having to pay for fossil fuel!
I am in Toronto Hydro service area; the off peak rate is $0.16/kWh all included. If you look at the website or even the billing paper, they do everything to confuse its clients ...
I've never seen anyone do this, but in evaluating the costs to charge have any of you analyzed and accounted for whether/how switching to a TOU or EV plan increased your non-charging electricity costs? i.e. If you weren't charging the car but were still on the same rate plan, would your home electricity bill be higher than it would be on another available rate? This would be a source of additional "hidden" cost sort of like opportunity cost. Not that it matters too much. Given the efficiency of electric motors and current general pricing for electricity vs. gas/diesel, the BEV is going to smash an ICE every time.
I don't get a choice and have TOU pricing no matter what. It works out well for me as I am not home during the day, and weekends and holidays are off peak.
Before I got an EV my usage was about 85% off peak now it's over 90%.
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
It's a bit more once you factor in the flat rate delivery fee. I'm running at ~$3 a day for a 120km commute.
Been keeping a log. Pretty close to expected (note all numbers are best guess as I'm too lazy to make my way to the meter daily in the freezing cold)
WH/km has climbed above the rated 150Wh/km thanks to winter heating. Have to be comfortable while stuck on the 401.
Model 3 kW Log
I had that happen to me in California. My EV rate made the non-charging usage at home more expensive. Wasn't that significant though
mknox
Well-Known Member
For me, I don't factor in the flat rate components of the bill (i.e. the fixed monthly charge) because I would pay that whether I had an electric vehicle or not. I just consider the incremental costs associated with the volumetric bill components.
I'm so glad I found this thread! I'm new here and have so much to learn.
Thanks for your posts. Im an Ontario resident.
Thanks for your posts. Im an Ontario resident.
Prior to the car I averaged about 500 kWh/month for the house. When I installed the charge circuit I also installed a dedicated monitor for that circuit. When I calculate charging cost for the car I use the off-peak rate of .065 cents/kWh plus the distribution/regulatory cost ABOVE the amount used by the house. As the majority of the dist/reg cost is covered by the house the amount of the dist/reg above and beyond the house is approximately .023 cents/kWh. So .065 + .023 x 5% gst = .0925 cent/kWh all-in for the car.
To date I have paid $158.96 for 1625 kWh’s for 8,174 km of driving (includes 1 Supercharging session). This works out to $1.95 per 100 km. Dirt cheap.
Falkirk
Member
Is anyone else on the Alectra Power Advantage plan where 80% of the day is 4.9c per kWh? What is the real cost paid per kWh in that case? I just got my report and it now breaks down the top 3 biggest areas of usage and the top one is 186kWh called Other. I'd love to make it more useful and let them know I have a car now.
I've been just doubling it to 10c per kWh, makes for easy math!
I've been just doubling it to 10c per kWh, makes for easy math!
