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Home charging question

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Plan to do home charging for model 3. Have some basic questions.
The plan is , 30a breaker, 240v 30a line and nema plug, Tesla mobile charger.
Look at nema plug, there are Nema 6-30, 12-30 ,14-30 all have 240v ac and 30a, which one should I use?
Tesla mobile charger can have 32a max current, is it ok to use 30a line and breaker?
 
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Mobile charger comes with NEMA 14-50 which is for 240v/50amp plug which gives you about 30-32miles per hour of charge. If you can install 50a instead of 30a that would be best otherwise you have to buy a different adapter for the other plugs you've listed. The other plug also will be take longer to charge with. The only thing better than going with 14-50 would be a Tesla wall charger or a Supercharger :)
 
how fast is the 240V 24A charging? can the charging speed reach 15 miles/hour?
Why is the max charging current only 24A, is it because of the efficiency only 80%?

what about 240V 20A? how fast the charging speed?
There is already a 240V 20A outlet in my basement. The outlet is really close to the garage. It will be very cheap to just move the outlet to the garage. I am also considering this option.
 
how fast is the 240V 24A charging? can the charging speed reach 15 miles/hour?
Why is the max charging current only 24A, is it because of the efficiency only 80%?

what about 240V 20A? how fast the charging speed?
There is already a 240V 20A outlet in my basement. The outlet is really close to the garage. It will be very cheap to just move the outlet to the garage. I am also considering this option.

Whatever amp service you install will only use 80% of its rating. If you use a 32 amp charger, in order to use all 32 amps, you will need 38 amp service (or more) in order to use all 32 amps. At least that was how it was explained to me...
 
Whatever amp service you install will only use 80% of its rating. If you use a 32 amp charger, in order to use all 32 amps, you will need 38 amp service (or more) in order to use all 32 amps. At least that was how it was explained to me...

80% concept is correct, your numbers are off a bit...charging at 32 amps would require a 40 amp circuit (32/0.8 = 40).
 
I wonder why 40 amp circuits can't do 40 amps.
Why call them 40 amp then say you must subtract 20%? Why not call it a 32 amp circuit?
Must be some historical reason.
It’s electrical code. If a circuit is going to be used constantly for over 3 hours (which is the case for most charging scenarios) it should only use 80% of the maximum amperage. I’m not completely clear on why, but it has to do with the conductors heating up. That said, there really isn’t anything stopping the circuit from using 100% of what it’s rated for.
 
I wonder why 40 amp circuits can't do 40 amps.
Why call them 40 amp then say you must subtract 20%? Why not call it a 32 amp circuit?
Must be some historical reason.

It's a code issue. I don't know the ins and outs, but they differentiate between startup loads like motors that draw high current initially then taper off, and continuous loads like battery chargers.
 
Since Tesla supplies the 14-50 adapter with the car, but you have to *buy* the 14-30 adapter (which Tesla charges quite a bit for), think about that when pricing out your install.

Always get the 14-series outlets; everything else is considered obsolete.

If your breaker box doesn't have room for a 50-amp circuit, though, you may want to put in the 14-30 circuit. Otherwise I'd put in the 14-50.
 
Since Tesla supplies the 14-50 adapter with the car, but you have to *buy* the 14-30 adapter (which Tesla charges quite a bit for), think about that when pricing out your install.

Always get the 14-series outlets; everything else is considered obsolete.

If your breaker box doesn't have room for a 50-amp circuit, though, you may want to put in the 14-30 circuit. Otherwise I'd put in the 14-50.
6 Series 240V outlets are not obsolete. NEMA 6-50 is very commonly used for EV charging stations and welders. Tesla offers adapters for the Gen2 Mobile Connector for NEMA 6-15, 6-20, and 6-50 outlets. If you want to use or put in a 30A circuit, then definitely use the 14-30 socket. Tesla offers a 10-30 adapter but it's not legal to install a new one of those outlets in most jurisdictions because it lacks a ground pin.
 
It’s electrical code. If a circuit is going to be used constantly for over 3 hours (which is the case for most charging scenarios) it should only use 80% of the maximum amperage. I’m not completely clear on why, but it has to do with the conductors heating up. That said, there really isn’t anything stopping the circuit from using 100% of what it’s rated for.
That makes sense, although if I were designing the code I would have assumed constant current.
Ie a 40A circuit should be able to handle a sustained 40A.
 
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Since Tesla supplies the 14-50 adapter with the car, but you have to *buy* the 14-30 adapter (which Tesla charges quite a bit for), think about that when pricing out your install.

Always get the 14-series outlets; everything else is considered obsolete.

If your breaker box doesn't have room for a 50-amp circuit, though, you may want to put in the 14-30 circuit. Otherwise I'd put in the 14-50.

The 14-30 adapter for the UMC Gen 2 is only $35, so not a ton.

As others mentioned, there is nothing wrong with the 6- series either. It is actually more optimal in some ways because it does not have the wasted neutral wire (the UMC will make zero use of a neutral wire on a 240v circuit).

If your breaker panel physically has the space for a 30a 240v circuit, then it also has the space for a 50a 240v circuit. The question is whether the load calculations will allow it based on all the loads existing on your panel / electrical service. Note that a 30a circuit would be calculated as a 24a continuous load. A 50a circuit on a 14-50 receptacle would only be calculated as a 32a continuous load since the UMC Gen 2 can only draw 32 amps. So even though the circuit is capable of up to a 40a continuous load, the load calculations are done based on the intended device to plug into it. Technically you could put the 14-50 on a 40a circuit for use with the UMC Gen 2, but I would never recommend that for a new install.

Here are Tesla's instructions for installing a 14-50:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default.../NEMA_14-50_installation_guide_NA_US_2017.pdf

That makes sense, although if I were designing the code I would have assumed constant current.
Ie a 40A circuit should be able to handle a sustained 40A.

The code has decade upon decade of tweaks over time. I personally think it is vastly over-complicated at this point and could use nearly a complete re-write, however, that is very unlikely to happen. All the weird rules and tweaks that have been made have either been due to dangerous situations that needed to be addressed (i.e. fires), or because the rules were overkill and so there has been pressure to trim safety margins back where they were excessive (and that is why we get weird rules like the one that allows us to under-size a main residential electrical service by 17% compared to the standard calculation in some cases).

Note that the reason for the 80% derate on circuits handling continuous loads is because the extended duty cycle causes the wire and components to heat up and does not give them time to cool down. It makes sense to me that a stovetop that only operates for short periods of time could have smaller wire than an EV charger that runs all night at the same amperage. Specifically, the main issue with continuous loads is that the breaker can heat up beyond the "standard test conditions" it was tested under and it can thermally trip when you don't want it to (nuisance trip).

I recommend you read some of the dozens and dozens of threads here about what to do for home charging. There is a lot of info available.

I personally am a huge fan of the Wall Connector myself (especially since my car is parked outside), but everyone needs to make their own decisions about their needs and how cost sensitive you are (I like keeping my UMC in my car with me at all times in case of emergency).

If you post pictures of your electrical panel (and the areas you would need to run lines in and where you would install the receptacle or wall connector) we may be able to give you some idea of your options (how difficult things might be).
 
Oh, and it is stupid that Tesla does not offer a 6-30 adapter for the UMC.

They have the 6-15, 6-20, and 6-50. They should also include a 6-30...

A 14-30 (which they sell) is dumb because it requires a wasted neutral wire. The 10-30 is not usable because it has no ground. As others stated, you are not allowed to install new ones anymore.

It is an oversight they need to fix. Folks with 10 gauge wire available, but only two current carrying conductors (plus ground) really deserve a better option for using the UMC Gen 2.
 
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The code has decade upon decade of tweaks over time.
That makes sense too, I suppose it started off with good intentions then people realised it was under-spec'd so just added "fudge-factors" to make it safe without having to re-label all existing installations.
I personally am a huge fan of the Wall Connector myself
So am I, and I've installed 3 of them with my own unlicensed hands, two of which were 3-phase. Used to do a lot of electric work growing up rural, fixing pumps and electric fences etc. The HPWCs are actually beautifully made and very straightforward to install.
 
how fast is the 240V 24A charging? can the charging speed reach 15 miles/hour?
Why is the max charging current only 24A, is it because of the efficiency only 80%?

what about 240V 20A? how fast the charging speed?
There is already a 240V 20A outlet in my basement. The outlet is really close to the garage. It will be very cheap to just move the outlet to the garage. I am also considering this option.

The charging is always 80% of the lowest rating of the wire/breaker/plug. So with 30amp service, you can charge at 24amps. With 40amp service, you can charge at 32amps. With 50 amp service you can charge at 40 amps.

With 24amp charging you will get about 5.7 kw power, or about 70 kwh over 12 hour period. In most circumstances it will be enough to fully recharge the car overnight. If you need to shorten the time (for example, to take advantage of lower off-peak rates), then 32 amps or 40 amps will be better and cheaper. The price differential between installing 30/40/50 amps service should be minimal, and that is why most people recommend installing 50amps (provided that your electrical panel can support it)
 
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I wonder why 40 amp circuits can't do 40 amps.
Why call them 40 amp then say you must subtract 20%? Why not call it a 32 amp circuit?
Must be some historical reason.



40 amp circuit can do 40 amps about 99.9999% of the time. But that 0.0001% of the time, there is some component in the circuit that may overheat and cause fire and burn the house down. This is not a problem for short loads, but it is a problem for continuous loads. So to minimize the risk, they lowered the maximum continuous draw to 80% of the rated amperage.
 
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That makes sense, although if I were designing the code I would have assumed constant current.
Ie a 40A circuit should be able to handle a sustained 40A.

Constant current is more challenging for the conductors than intermittent current. When current passes through conductors, they heat up. When they heat up, their resistance increases, and they heat up more. The more they heat up, the more the resistance increases, and the more they heat up. And you have a fire. With intermittent usage (most of the appliances in the house), they have time to cool down. It makes sense (economically) to label them based on the most prevalent pattern of use.