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Home charging questions.

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Locoboof, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. Locoboof

    Locoboof Member

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    Hello everyone,I'm totally new here and I'm full of questions.
    My wife and I were going to buy a S until the model 3 presented itself. Now our plan is to buy two model 3's.

    We're currently having a home built from the ground up,they haven't even broke ground yet. :(

    My question is,should I have two 220V outlets on each side of the garage installed? Or have them both installed in the ceiling,that way the cords can drop down and then we'll charge that way?

    I see people talking about certain amps (50A) etc and I'm not afraid to say I have no idea what that means. I know it's amps,but I just want a simplified answer to tell my electrician what to install. I've seen people having meters installed off of their outlets too. Is that something I need or need PG&E to install?

    This will be our first endeavor into the electric car world and we're excited. I drive about 110 miles a day in my commute and the model 3 will be my commuter car. There's no shortage of superchargers here in the Bay Area. The closest is about 1.5 miles from our home.
     
  2. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Active Member

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    Since your house isn't built yet......why not have 4 installed. One on each wall. Who knows where the socket for the cars will be? It would be really smart for Tesla to install the charging plug on the M3 in the same spot as the MS. That way it wouldn't matter which car you pull into your garage and what stall you use.

    Or even have one installed on the ceiling above each car. I don't know if the charger can be installed upside down on the ceiling, but ...... have it done now or forever hold your peace.
     
  3. proven

    proven Member

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    This is actually a good resource on the tesla site: Home charging installation
    I'm assuming that there won't be anything different when it comes to the Model 3.

    First you have to consider a few things.
    1. How tall is your ceiling? If you are using a 240/50 outlet for charging, if you want to unplug the cord and take it with you, you would have to get up there to unplug it. If you want it hanging from the ceiling, there are other ways to do it without having the outlet on the ceiling. See here for some ideas.
    2. Will you be backing in to the garage or pulling in forward? You'll want the plugs in the right spots. The charging ports on the S and X are on the driver side in the back.
    3. How many miles do you anticipate driving per day? In other words, how fast do you need the car to charge.

    Currently the S and X ship with either 48 or 72 amp chargers in the car. Most people are fine with a NEMA 14-50 outlet which charges at 40 amps and gives 25-29 miles of range per hour. However, some people need to charge faster so they install the Tesla Wall Charger which can deliver as much as 80 Amps.

    The new Tesla Wall Charger that was just released allows you to daisy chain multiple chargers on one circuit, and then it will adjust the power distribution based on what is needed between the two cars. That may be a good option.

    If I was building a new house right now, and I wanted to plan for future charging needs I would probably run two wires with a gauge big enough to support a 100 amp circuit just in case you wanted to go all out and have two wall chargers. You could always install just the NEMA 14-50 on those lines. Ask your electrician and show him the Wall Charger installation guide as reference.
     
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  4. Mark Z

    Mark Z Active Member

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    Check with your utility company. Determine if a second meter will give you a better electrical rate to charge the EVs. SoCal Edison provides a great rate from 9 PM to Noon. PG&E has their rate plans:

    New Electric Vehicle Rate Options

    Electric Vehicles - Charger Installation | PG&E

    I had a 200 amp panel installed for the second meter. If you are installing two wall connectors for the Model 3s, you might be very happy you have the dedicated 200 amp panel.

    From SoCal Edison, this might be invaluable information to compare with your utility company and help with questions.

    https://www.sce.com/wps/wcm/connect/1edda164-c538-461f-a530-e65e9847ca45/EVElectricianGuide.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

    And here is one for commercial and multi-family properties:

    https://www.sce.com/wps/wcm/connect/606cda45-f2be-4023-9fc2-5c103354b1b1/CommEV_Electrician+Guide.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
     
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  5. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Active Member

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    Op. What are your Solar Panel options? Does your house face south? If so.... you might want to think about re-orientation. Now is the time to investigate.

    I'm gong to power my M3 with Solar.....My son and I installed it 5 years after my house was built. See here ->>> Solaredge
     
  6. Locoboof

    Locoboof Member

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    There's no shortage of solar companies in my area. You know,I never even thought about solar! My wife and I will be doing so research on that tonight for sure.

    Thank you for your input and excellent job on the install by you and your son.
     
  7. Locoboof

    Locoboof Member

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    Thank you to everyone who replied. We'll be doing some research now that all of you pointed us in the right direction.

    This certainly is a knowledgeable and friendly forum. Thanks again.
     
  8. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    FYI, if you go the route of a ceiling plug, then you won't want to use the UMC for that and will likely end up buying an HPWC. In that case, it will need to be wired in anyway and thus, the outlet doesn't matter so much as any wiring up there. So I would go for at least two "RV outlets" on opposite walls, though four (one for each wall) is a great idea.
     
  9. Locoboof

    Locoboof Member

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    Is the HPWC connected via a 220V outlet or it's hard wired all the way back to the panel?
     
  10. bmah

    bmah Obscure Member

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    It's generally going to hard-wired. HPWC is intended to be a fairly permanent installation.

    I wanted to address this one other part from your original post, sorry if I'm telling you something you already know. The presence of Superchargers in the Bay Area should be fairly irrelevant to you once you get your home charging situation set up. The intent is that you charge at home, at night, and you start each morning with as much energy as you need to get through the next day. At the end of the day, you come back home and charge again for tomorrow. Superchargers don't come into play at all. If you're going on a long road trip, that's when you care about Superchargers, and in this case you'd probably care about charging stations starting some distance (50-150 miles) away from home. (As an example, the Supercharger I use most often is Manteca, which is nowhere near my house, but I stop there on the way to the Central Valley.) It's a very different way of thinking from driving a petrol-based car!

    Also, when you get closer to taking delivery of your vehicles, look into what electric rate plans PG&E has that might help you. (I have the EV-A plan, which is compatible with solar / net-metering, but uses only one meter. Electric rates on this plan are lower at night, and my car, a Model S, is programmed to start charging when rates are lowest.)

    Welcome to the TMC forums, and have fun!

    Bruce.
     
  11. Locoboof

    Locoboof Member

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    I meant it in these terms...(although I pass the superchargers here everyday,I'm trying to setup the best home solution. It's less than two miles from me,but I'm trying to figure out the best home/permanent option). I want the best way to come home from work just plug it right in.

    By the way,I have family that live by the Manteca one,right next to the bass pro shop. Very convenient for sure....

    Thank you for the info. Sounds like I may just have them run the wires to both sides of my garage (220V) That way after construction, installing and mounting the HPWC should be simple.

    Hhmm....being that you have first hand experience in this field,the EV-A plans sounds like a great option. I know I'm years away before getting the vehicle,but just trying to plan ahead.

    Thank you Bruce
     
  12. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Active Member

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  13. wmaung20

    wmaung20 New Member

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    Same as Mine... I live at OP Building in White Plains NY and No outlet in my garage. Fortunately, My community has 3 Dual Level 2 stations.
     
  14. proven

    proven Member

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    #14 proven, Apr 20, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
    Keep in mind that the Plugless system is much slower and less efficient than the wired charger in a Tesla. The website says it's a 3.3 kW system and is 12% less efficient than a wired system (higher electric bill). For comparison, the single charger in the Model S is 10 kW and the new 48 Amp charger is over 11kW.
     
  15. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

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    I have found FLASHERZ's well written FAQ thread on Tesla Charging to be invaluable..... here is the link....

    FAQ: Home Tesla charging infrastructure Q&A

    Since the 3 will use the same connector as the S, the information given in the FAQ is appropriate.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  16. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Loco, @bmah got it. I just mention it because you will want to take the UMC with you when traveling. It would get old very quickly to get on a ladder and unplug the UMC every time. Plus, the UMC plug has a short run before the control box. You would need to have a basket or additional hooks to hold that up without stressing the plug. Again, more complex and thus, one would likely end up using a HPWC if you want to mount on the ceiling.

    You have the right idea of just having wiring run there now. Perhaps just put an empty junction box where the wire terminates so it is easier down the road to add in plugs or hard-wire a unit.
     
  17. PluglessSteve

    PluglessSteve Member

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    Disclosures, I work for Plugless and we are an aftermarket accessory and have not worked with Tesla on Plugless. Plugless for Model S is a 7.2kW charger and so it provides at least 20mph of hands-free, never have to think about it charging. For the VAST majority of daily driving miles and overnight charging times (and/or at work charging times) this will work fine. If you are putting in 200+ miles daily, perhaps not. @proven has the correct information on the efficiency.
     
  18. proven

    proven Member

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    That's good to know that it's 7.2kW for the Model S. Much more comparable for charging speed.
     
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  19. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Member

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    Yes, I would definitely not do outlets and plugs, since you are planning on two Teslas, and the new wall connector is now only about $550 and can share a circuit between two connectors. The Tesla wall connector can be installed on many different circuit levels, and you set a switch inside the unit for what it’s connected to. You could run a separate circuit to each wall connector, if you will have that much electrical capacity, or as someone mentioned, share them on one, since the new wall connector has that capability.
     
  20. Topher

    Topher Energy Curmudgeon

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    From what I have seen (in videos) the charging port is on the left side in the rear tail light. Regardless of which side is the driver's side. Is that wrong?

    Thank you kindly.
     

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