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Home-Charging Rates Table for late-2019 Models X, S, and 3

Discussion in 'Supercharging & Charging Infrastructure' started by tps5352, Dec 5, 2019.

  1. tps5352

    tps5352 Supporting Member

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    Comparative home-charging rates--using different Tesla connection devices--for seven current (Dec., 2019) U.S. Tesla car versions--for your review and correction as needed.

    Acronyms/Abbreviations:
    • M-X, M-S, M-3 - Models X, S, and 3
    • LR - Long Range version
    • PERF - Performance version
    • SR - Standard Range version
    • WC-wrd - Tesla Wall Connector (hard-wired)
    • WC-14-50 - Tesla Wall Connector (w/NEMA 14-50 plug; no longer offered by Tesla)
    • MC-5-15 - Gen 2 Mobile Connector (w/NEMA 5-15 plug; comes standard with new cars)
    • MC-14-50 - Gen 2 Mobile Connector (w/optional NEMA 14-50 plug)
    • CMC-14-50 - Corded Mobile Connector (w/NEMA 14-50 plug; optional)
    • Breaker (amps) - recommended protective circuit breaker size
    • Sust (amps) - sustained charging current amperage
    • (kW) - kilowatts (measure of power) (= [volts x amps] / 1,000)
    • (kWh) - kilowatt-hours (a measure of battery longevity)
    I wanted to add miles of range per hour (mrph) and time needed to fully charge. But those numbers may be subject to many interpretative variables (and at times contradictory claims on the Internet).
    ___________
    Notes:

    • The table was built using a limited, simple form of HTML code. If someone can suggest a better way to create a more fully-featured/formatted table (e.g., with centering, shading, etc.) in this Forum, please let me know.
    • Also, is there a way to make a future post interactive, so that it could be modified by others (Wiki-like)?






    --------------------------M-XM-XM-SM-SM-3M-3M-3
    DEVICEUNITSLRPERFLRPERFLRPERFSR
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Battery(kWh)100100100100757554
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    WC-wrdA/C (volts)240240240240240240240
    ---------Breaker (amps)60606060606050
    ---------Sust (amps)48484848484832
    ---------(kW)11.5211.5211.5211.5211.5211.527.68
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    WC-14-50A/C (volts)240240240240240240240
    ---------Breaker (amps)50505050505050
    ---------Sust (amps)40404040404032
    ---------(kW)9.69.69.69.69.69.67.68
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    MC-5-15A/C (volts)120120120120120120120
    ---------Breaker (amps)15151515151515
    ---------Sust (amps)12121212121212
    ---------(kW)1.441.441.441.441.441.441.44
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    MC-14-50A/C (volts)240240240240240240240
    ---------Breaker (amps)50505050505050
    ---------Sust (amps)32323232323232
    ---------(kW)7.687.687.687.687.687.687.68
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    CMC-14-50A/C (volts)240240240240240240240
    ---------Breaker (amps)50505050505050
    ---------Sust (amps)40404040404032
    --------- (kW)9.69.69.69.69.69.67.68
     
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  2. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Well-Known Member

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    Tesla has a version listed with the charging adapters
     
  3. tps5352

    tps5352 Supporting Member

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    Yes, thank you for reminding me. I think you mean here:

    Gen 2 NEMA Adapters

    Tesla Charging Aadapter Mileage Gained Per Hour - 2.jpg
    (Dec. 5, 2019 screenshot)

    I initially had those pertinent data in my working Excel spreadsheet, but kept running into different values from otherwise reputable Internet sources. Also, is this Tesla chart somewhat over-simplified? Do miles of range gained per hour possibly vary among the three Model 3 versions, and possibly among Extended Range and Performance versions of the Models S and X? I'm not completely sure.

    Regardless, it sounds like the comparative variable of most interest to me is the one that can differ and fluctuate the most--i.e., the average time needed to "fully" charge (e.g., to a healthy 80-90%). Too many factors involved, not all of which can be controlled from day to day:
    • Size of battery array
    • Age of car/batteries
    • Condition/health of batteries
    • Type of on-board charger(s)
    • Charging software version and settings
    • Environmental conditions (temperature, etc.)
    • Charge starting point
      and so forth...
    ...in addition to model-version of car, power of home charging current, and the charge-connector hardware employed.

    All this may be purely academic. I am looking forward to actually experiencing the on-board software display (say in a Model X) which sounds like it will provide much accurate information about--and a lot of control over--charging.
     
  4. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure that the rate of charge is basically the same for all configurations. The only difference may be for cars with dual chargers, which of course only applies to the 50A options.

    All of these are for non-Supercharger options. The differences in batteries only appear when Supercharging, else the limits are well below any of the battery maximums.
     
  5. srs5694

    srs5694 Active Member

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    Yes, but by a very small amount -- probably beyond the (non-existent) decimal point in the whole numbers displayed in the chart. (I haven't crunched the numbers to determine the theoretical values for the different battery sizes and motor configurations.) Ultimately, the miles of range gained per hour will vary with your energy efficiency; and just like MPG figures on a gas car, that will vary with driving style, weather, terrain, etc.

    Another point is that Tesla erred in creating the Model 3 column of that chart when it comes to 120v outlets (NEMA 5-15 and NEMA 5-20) -- those should actually be 5 and 7 (or perhaps 5 and 6), not 3 and 4.

    Finally, these figures assume a 240v supply. In reality, any given location's voltage is likely to vary slightly from this -- you might get 235v or 245v and still be within spec. Some homes, and many commercial sites, even have 208v rather than 240v, and that will more significantly impact the charge rate, in both kW and miles of range added per hour.[/QUOTE]
     
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  6. tps5352

    tps5352 Supporting Member

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    On my own (personal computer) spreadsheet table I was eventually able to add comparative values for "Charging Speed" (miles of range added per hour) and "Charging Time" (time needed to charge, say from 20% to 80% charge conditions) for the two Model X, two Model S, and three Model 3 versions by using this online tool:

    Electric car charging cost and time calculator

    If you know your area's cost for electricity, using the tool you can also calculate the approximate cost of a charge. Very convenient. Charging information for the new Model Y versions is also available there.
     
  7. Densefog

    Densefog Member

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    Have you seen a difference in charge rate between MF-5-15 with 14-50 adapter and CMC 14-50. Tesla says the CMC- 14-50 charges faster. $500 more to get CMC 14-50

     
  8. tps5352

    tps5352 Supporting Member

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    AFAIK the Tesla Generation 2 Mobile Connector (Gen 2 MC) fitted with optional NEMA 14-50 adapter-plug will normally transfer electricity from a NEMA 14-50 electrical receptacle (on a 50-amp home circuit) to the Tesla car internal charger at (up to) 240 volts, 32 amps, and 7.68 kilowatts.

    In comparison, the Tesla Corded Mobile Connector (CMC) is, I believe, considered a "Generation 1" device and on the same circuit will move somewhat more energy faster. It operates at up to 40 amps (9.6 kW). So charging will be quicker. (For example, it might take 7 hours with a CMC to charge a Model X from 20% to 80% capacity instead of 9 hours with a Gen 2 MC w/14-50 plug. Compare that with a whopping 46 hours to charge the same car using a NEPA 5-15, 12-amp, 120-volt outlet and it makes you wonder why Tesla even bothers to supply 5-15 adapters.).

    BTW, To compare charging rates and estimated times needed to charge various Teslas (and other brands), try this handy online tool

    Electric car charging cost and time calculator

    (After selecting the Tesla model you are interested in, adjust the socket voltage [240] and socket amperage [either 32 or 40] manually. If you just select the NEMA 14-50 socket, the calculator will give you the too-high 50-amp charge rate.)

    (And interestingly, the original [Gen 1] portable connector cable—i.e., the Universal Mobile Connector [UMC]--also allowed a 40-amp rate when using its NEMA 14-50 adapter-plug. Tesla turned the power down to 32 amps with the Gen 2 MC 14-50 adapter plug. Why? Story for another time.)

    So yes, the CMC is $520. But cost is not the only factor to consider when establishing a home charging plan. The cheapest alternative would seem to be to use the Gen 2 MC and NEMA 5-15 adapter-plug that come with the car. But as mentioned above, charging at 120 volts, 12 amps can be deemed "inadequate," at best, for daily car use. And having only a single charging cable is often inconvenient. At the other end of the cost spectrum is installation of a Tesla Gen 2 high power wall connector (allowing up to 48-amp charging). But that may require expensive wiring and professional installation. Use of a CMC setup (50-amp wiring, power outlet, and CMC) lies somewhere in between. It is usually not quite so expensive as a HPWC; provides a convenient, dedicated home charging system; allows for still generous 40-amp charging; and saves wear-and-tear on the portable Gen 2 MC (which can stay safely stored in the frunk for on-the-road use).
     
  9. Densefog

    Densefog Member

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    t
    thanks
     
  10. aspec818

    aspec818 Member

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    Do prior generation Model X charge at a lesser rate? Will a 2016 charge slower than a 2019 over a 14-50?
     
  11. tps5352

    tps5352 Supporting Member

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    I do not know. However, the online tool:

    Electric car charging cost and time calculator

    allows you to select from among eight (8) Model X battery/performance versions:
    • 75D
    • 90D
    • P90D
    • 100D
    • P100D
    • Standard Range
    • Long Range
    • Performance
    One of those should be appropriate to select as your representative 2016 Model X version, correct? And the "Long Range" and "Performance" selections should represent the current (e.g., 2019-20) two available Model X versions. So you could run the tool using the same power settings for, say, the 75D version against the Long Range version and see if charging rates vary. I assume that they would.

    I also assume that you mean a fair comparison between 2016 and 2019 versions when the two cars were brand new. The online tool should assume that. Otherwise I can imagine that age may color comparative results --i.e., that charge rates will normally be slower for older, well-used vehicle batteries. But perhaps that is not true? Regardless, the online tool should ignore age of the car and just calculate charging rate when the car was new, I believe.

    By the way, this tool allows you to select among 18(!) versions of the Model S (from "60" up to "Performance"). Clearly, there were a lot of battery/performance versions of the Model S over the years.

    Also, (a) I have absolutely no connection whatsoever with the online calculator or the people who designed it and (b) I hope that it is reasonably accurate, consistent, and up-to-date. Are other similar or better resources available?
     
  12. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Well-Known Member

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    First off, make sure you don't have two variables going. The older ones had the 1st generation charge cable, which could pull 40A from a 14-50 outlet, while the newer ones come with a 2nd generation charge cable, which can only pull 32A, so you might have a difference there.

    But assuming they are both using the same cable, and pulling the same amps, then yes, the newer ones probably do charge a little bit faster in terms of "miles per hour" because of efficiency differences. Example:
    Let's say you have the same gas station pump filling two different vehicles. The flow of gallons per minute is the same, but if the two vehicles get different mpg efficiency, one is getting "miles" refilled faster because it can go more distance on that same amount of fuel. So the newer "Raven" based Model X and S probably do show a little bit faster miles per hour recharging speeds on the same amps because they are more efficient.
     
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  13. tps5352

    tps5352 Supporting Member

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    Good point. Yes, the online calculator is where you would adjust important variables--for example the car-model version, the starting and ending charge levels (e.g., 20% to 80%), and the electrical circuit specifications (using the "socket type" or, better yet, the "socket specs manually").

    I recommend setting the "socket specs" (voltage, amperage, phase) of the online-calculator manually, because if you just choose, say, the NEMA 14-50 receptacle option, you may get the wrong continuous charging amperage. For example, if you normally charge at home using a 240-volt NEMA 14-50 receptacle with a 50-amp breaker circuit and you use a Tesla Corded Mobile Connector cable, you want to manually set the online-calculator amperage to 40 continuous amps (not 50), because that is the maximum amperage that Tesla car-cable combination will allow. Or if you normally use a Tesla Gen 2 Mobile Connector cable with its optional NEMA 14-50 adapter-plug, you will want to to set the online-calculator setting down to 32-amps (the max allowed by the Gen 2 MC). In comparison, if you normally use a Tesla (Gen 1, 2, or 3) wall connector, you may be able to adjust the online-calculator up to 48 continuous amps if you have safely installed a 60-amp or higher electrical circuit and if your car's charger will allow that rate.

    Note: This calculator is for charging at home (in the USA, I assume) with standard 120- or 240-volt electrical circuits. Is there something similar for supercharging? Not sure.
     
    • Informative x 1
  14. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Well-Known Member

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    Can't really do something equivalent for Supercharging because it has way too much variability. Home AC charging is constant known fixed rates. It varies some as far as the "miles per hour" by different models' efficiency, but at least you know the power delivery by volts and amps. But Supercharging has all kinds of things that affect even that power rate:
    How full is the state of charge?
    How warm is the battery?
    Is it summer where the plug handle is hot, so the Supercharger is cutting down speed?
    Is someone paired or not paired?
    What is the state of charge for the primary paired car? (probably can't know)
    Is it a Gen 2 or 3 or urban Supercharger?
    What model of car is it, which determines capable top Supercharger power?
    What size/model/generation battery?
    Has it used so much Supercharging that its speed has been capped and/or tapering curve been lowered?
     
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  15. tps5352

    tps5352 Supporting Member

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    Oh, ok; right. Gotcha. Interesting.

    As a Tesla car is charging, say at a supercharger, information about the charge rate can of course be displayed for the driver on the screen. How much of this information, if any, is captured and relayed back to Tesla or stored for eventual service checks, I wonder? Probably not for all cars all the time, certainly; but maybe for select small samples of cars?
     

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