Unfortunately if we all took that approach the grid would struggle to balance the supply across the country even when it potentially has the capacity to do so. They are going to have to keep more generation online "just in case". If everyone is supplied via smart meters then the grid can be managed much more effectively, and therefore more cheaply and with a reduced CO2 footprint. I completely agree that I don't want someone else actively controlling my individual charging schedule but that's not quite the same thing.
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Home charging restrictions coming?
- Thread starter Nick77
- Start date
Unfortunately if we all took that approach the grid would struggle to balance the supply across the country even when it potentially has the capacity to do so. They are going to have to keep more generation online "just in case". If everyone is supplied via smart meters then the grid can be managed much more effectively, and therefore more cheaply and with a reduced CO2 footprint. I completely agree that I don't want someone else actively controlling my individual charging schedule but that's not quite the same thing.
PITA
Model 3 Performance
There's two issues here with the UK
1) Capacity
2) Capability
Even if the Grid had the capacity, enough in reserve to supply everything... the actual cabling infrastructure 'capability' isn't there.
In my opinion, this is where the trouble will be.
Once underground and overhead cables start frying... it'll cause a backlog nightmare. They're stretched to 'staffing resource capacity' as it is.
It takes a lot of time and money to keep digging up streets. Domestic residents will get fed up pretty quickly with regular localised blackouts
I fully agree that management of charging will be critical as BEVs become more common. I am on the Tesla Octopus Energy Plan. While no attempt has yet been made to externally alter my Tesla charge regime, I was asked at the time I signed up to try and charge when possible after midnight. We don't drive long distances and I plug the car in when parked and have it set to begin charge at 1am. Usually 2 hours or less is sufficient to top it up to my set limit of 75%. I will respect whatever restrictions are recommended to alleviate grid demand. I just prefer not to have someone external control my charging. I also have smart meters at home. It does worry me if the Government is successful eliminating petrol and diesel vehicles over the coming years that the grid and electric supply generally will not be able to cope. I can't see that the DNOs will be swift in upgrading the underground and overground cabling systems to keep up with the demands that are going to be placed on the infrastructure.
In practice "overhead cables start frying" is not really on the cards. What will happen is that you won't get permission to install a home charge point until the local infrastructure has been upgraded. That's why we need government level intervention to ensure that these upgrades go ahead pronto! In percentage of EV terms we are way behind the likes of Norway and they haven't been frying their cables yet! Every country is different of course and we have a heck of a lot more vehicles to account for over the next few years.
PITA
Model 3 Performance
On another forum I used to visit (non EV)... I asked an open question about what type of EV Chargers people had fitted...
The replies came in quite quickly with a range of different types... then I questioned DNO approval process and paperwork.
There were a few DIY Installs with no approval. So I know for a fact people are DIY installing these, their argument is it's no worse than an electric shower install... or 'dont be stupid, I'm not getting approval its my house'
So... make of that what you want.
There are many people doing DIY stuff, they don't care one jot...
PITA
Model 3 Performance
The DNO's are very well aware of this already and have £millions set aside.
BUT... it doesn't matter how much money you've got if you don't have the parts, or staff availability.
When I had our house upgraded to 3 Phase Cabling (I saw this coming 18 months ago), I had lengthy chats with our DNO chaps... They told me some horror stories of villages and towns, and whole swathes of counties (rural areas) that are nowhere near ready for mass adoption of EV's and Heat Pumps. Even modern housing estates that should know better, the suppling cables are rubbish and often on looped supplies.
We're mainly still based on pre-World War Two infrastructure design.
The focus has always been on Energy Generation, and very little focus on actually getting high capacity demand to domestic residents.
We're now sorted... Solar Array, Powerwalls, Gateway, EV, Home Charging & 3 Phase. Took 8 days for the street to be dug up, and weeks of planning just for one house !!
I had access to the DNO Mains Cabling .pdf chart of our Estate and every other house is on a looped supply. It'll be carnage... or point blank Home EV Charger refusals...
PITA
Model 3 Performance
Oh... and I've told all my close 'looped supply' Neighbours this situation, showed them the charts, the impact on their EV Charging capabilities and suggested they get on with it while it's still free to get 'looped supplies' removed...
But none of them are really listening...
So good luck to them, I tried...
But none of them are really listening...
So good luck to them, I tried...
ACarneiro
Active Member
Now that you mention it, I’m not sure that the electricians who fitted my two TWCs actually ever spoke to the DNO.
I have the Part P and it’s all professionally done but maybe they didn’t know they had to?
PITA
Model 3 Performance
There's loads of this going on (but they also may have done the paperwork in the background)?
If your electrician didn't get DNO approval, the DNO has no visibility of your EV Charger install. So they can't calculate your cable loading or demand loading.
Now imagine everyone in your town doing the same thing, until eventually the underground cables or Substation catches fire haha...
Remember a 8kW electric shower is on for maybe 10-15 minutes... an EV Charger for hours at a time, a lot of heat there.
By the way... do a Google search on Substation Fires over the past 12 months... it's on the increase
ACarneiro
Active Member
Well, my worry is will they come and force me to disconnect the chargers if they happen to see them? Pretty sure mine are 2 of only 4 or 5 in my estate so hopefully the substation will cope
PITA
Model 3 Performance
Well, my worry is will they come and force me to disconnect the chargers if they happen to see them? Pretty sure mine are 2 of only 4 or 5 in my estate so hopefully the substation will cope
... or put another way...
Identify that your install is unsafe, plan a proper cabling upgrade at their expense. Issue you with the correct paperwork and you feel certain everything has been done properly.
Did your electrician also install an 80amp or 100amp isolation switch in your meter box?
PITA
Model 3 Performance
In our house now, I went through and itemised, we have :-
- 10kW Powerwalls
- 8kW Electric Showers x 2
- 8kW Heat Pump
- 8kW EV Charger
- 7.2kW Solar Array
- 7kW Induction Hob
- 3kW Water Emersion Heater
- 3kW Oven
That's before we even get to the plug sockets...
Then a whole raft of other electrical devices willing to burn the house down at a moments notice...
You don't need DNO approval for the first charge point, only the second. The DNO will be notified as matter of course as adding a new circuit for a charger is a notifiable change. The electrician may need other changes to be made, but that's not specific top a charge point
Diversity means you won’t have all those working at the same time, plus you’ve mixed electricity generation with consumption and with load balancing equipment. I think the general idea of a solar array is to make power and not take it from the grid.
PITA
Model 3 Performance
You're still able to EXPORT power from a Solar Array, potentially at high power which stresses the Grid.
Anyways, carry on...
You wouldn’t export at the same time as you’re using all those appliances, the power would net off. It’s not a complicated rule of basic physics. You chose to disagree rather than either admit you may be wrong or explain your point more fully because it didn’t make sense, and it still doesn’tYou're still able to EXPORT power from a Solar Array, potentially at high power which stresses the Grid.
Anyways, carry on...
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