Home circuit breaker 208 volts?

[qdeathstar]

You all say it is so uncommon to have 208 single phase yet appliance manufacturers ensure all appliances work at 208-240. Why would they do this if it was so rare? Most people who buy gas ranges have natural gas but quite a few have propane. They have to buy extra parts to swap, they are usually not included for free because the majority of people don't need them.

Because it doesn’t cost anything to make them 208-240. Especially for a range, for instance. The electronics operate off of 120v and the elements are resistive. Same thing with a dryer. Motors are rated at 220v so they will work with either voltage.

But they will draw more current at 240v vs 208v

I think it is safe to say that 208V single phase in stand alone single family residential is very uncommon. But to suggest that most MFDs (including 400 unit apartments and condos) are all fed with 240V would be insane. It is much more efficient to bring in 3 phase power and split that.

Most apartment buildings and condos are fed with split phase 120/240. Especially older ones. And there are more older apartment buildings that new ones because of well, reasons.

Three phase power needs to be designed in away where all the loads on each leg are relatively equal. If you are splitting the phases over multiple different residential units it becomes more complicated.

 

[jcanoe]

Three phase power needs to be designed in away where all the loads on each leg are relatively equal.

An condo/apartment unit community where each unit has the same number, type of home appliances would ensure all the loads on each leg are relatively equal. At my condo community every unit had 1 heat pump, 1 range/oven, 1 clothes dryer, 1 water heater (a few units had a second water heater for an optional Jacuzzi tub.) Most differences were for lighting circuits.

 

[qdeathstar]

An condo/apartment unit community where each unit has the same number, type of home appliances would ensure all the loads on each leg are relatively equal. At my condo community every unit had 1 heat pump, 1 range/oven, 1 clothes dryer, 1 water heater (a few units had a second water heater for an optional Jacuzzi tub.) Most differences were for lighting circuits.

Everyone uses their dryer, stove, and ac at the same time

Also, three phase equipment is much more expensive than split phase equipment, and most power companies charge much more for three phase service than they do for split phase. That goes for the initial hook up as well as the kw/h fees aswell. That’s another reason why split phase is more common..

If your condo is in a tower where they need three phase power for other equipment, maybe it makes since to have three phase power. If not, in general built out phase it might be cheaper just to install split phase service to your units.

 

[TechOps]

Also, three phase equipment is much more expensive than split phase equipment, and most power companies charge much more for three phase service than they do for split phase. That goes for the initial hook up as well as the kw/h fees aswell. That’s another reason why split phase is more common..

This is totally wrong. Please just stop.

Three phase is cheaper to construct in a medium or large multi-family buildings for a variety of reasons. You save unneeded conductors, you can power large equipment (HVAC, 3 phase induction motors) with more efficiency and better power supplies, the power is more consistent, and it's faster and easier to build out. Power companies in north america usually prefer to deliver power to large multi-family, commercial and industrial in 3-phase. Mechanical power plants generate electricity in 3-phase and that's how it's carried on the grid.

If your condo is in a tower where they need three phase power for other equipment, maybe it makes since to have three phase power. If not, in general built out phase it might be cheaper just to install split phase service to your units.

Excuse me, are you a licensed architect, building engineer or electrical engineer?

If you are just following plans made by those certified and trained professionals, laying conduit and pulling wires, per your own comments you should not be commenting on this design topic, and stay in your own certified lane.

It is absolutely not cheaper to pull "split phase" (i.e. dual phase, i.e. two single phase) circuits in a tower, especially with a delta configuration. Even with a wye setup it's still cheaper to build out and better compatible with tower riser systems, bus bars, building mechanicals, and the transformers that need to be used to step down power in a typical tower.

How did you pervert such a simple question from someone who obviously measured two legs of a 3-phase power delivery into a rant on certification? If you want to operate in a trade where people aren't allowed to work on their own house, switch over to plumbing.

 

[qdeathstar]

This is totally wrong. Please just stop.

Thank you for preceding your post with this warning. Everything proceeding it was infect wrong.

Three phase is cheaper to construct in a medium or large multi-family buildings for a variety of reasons. You save unneeded conductors, you can power large equipment (HVAC, 3 phase induction motors) with more efficiency and better power supplies, the power is more consistent, and it's faster and easier to build out.

Did you read what I wrote before you decided to go on your little rant? Yeah, if you in a tower or something where there is already a need for three phase power, and you are going to need three phase distribution anyway, what you are saying makes sense. But most condo units and apartment buildings have no need for three phase ac unit or large motors.


There is no difference in the amount of conductors you need if you are splitting three phase power up so that each apartment gets two of the three phases. You have to run the same amount of conductors to each apartment. Except, instead of being able to install a gangable meterbase and having POCO tie into that, you are need distribution panels to spit up the incoming three phase service to metering abs then to your panel.

And distribution panels (along with the wiring and labor to install them) aren’t cheap. And you will be charged the commercial rate.

It is absolutely not cheaper to pull "split phase" (i.e. dual phase, i.e. two single phase) circuits in a tower,

Hey goalpost relocation technician, I never said it was cheaper in a tower. Most multiamily apartment buildings and condos aren’t in towers tho.

How did you pervert such a simple question from someone who obviously measured two legs of a 3-phase power delivery into a rant on certification? If you want to operate in a trade where people aren't allowed to work on their own house, switch over to plumbing.

Because I suggested that the OP verify his readings with the power company to insure they are correct, sense we can’t be sure they are correct.