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Home EV charging in apartment block complex carparks

Discussion in 'Asia and Australia' started by markwj, Apr 14, 2011.

  1. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    In Hong Kong, most people live in apartment blocks with car parks on the first few floors (or sometimes underground). Sometimes the car park spaces are owned by the owners themselves, and sometimes rented out. They are always in common areas.

    I am fortunate, as I live in a house with my own garage, and can do whatever I like (150Amp 240V 3 phase). But, those in apartment blocks need to get Owners Committee, Building Management and power company approval for installation of charging facilities.

    There has been a lot of government and power company emphasis here on public charge points (shopping centres, etc), but I really fail to see the point. Hong Kong is a small city and people rarely drive more than 80Km (50miles) a day. My own commute from owe side of Hong Kong to the other is about 40Km round-trip. I think the government is just going after the 'easy target' and not addressing the real problem.

    As Tesla (and EVs in general) are fairly new to Hong Kong, I'm interested in hearing about peoples experience with charging arrangements in other countries.

    I was asked by Tesla to think of something 'big' for them to go after in Hong Kong, and I'm thinking this may be it. If I buy an apartment here, legislation exists to force building management to allow me to connect telephone, power, and other utilities (legally I believe this is known as an "easement" Easement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). What about legislation to enforce the right to electrical power for car parks?

     
  2. SByer

    SByer '08 #383

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    I think it's something big to go after globally! But yes, a first win anywhere will help the dominoes being to fall. I think it's a great idea.
     
  3. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    I'm also wondering If the right of easement already exists if you own the car parking space (as is often the case in older buildings). The only issue might be the lack of previous use of EV charging. A test case would be interesting.
     
  4. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    I think I may be that test case.
    I own an investment apartment in Sydney 50 meters down the road from where I live.
    I rent out the apartment without the parking space so I can park my car off street and have done for many years.
    The building I live in is older and has no parking whatsoever, making the prospect of any plug-in vehicle difficult. Plus I have the additional problem that my tennant probably does not want me to tap into his electricity supply to charge my plug in vehicle.
    Like many, my life was changed by following the birth and development of the Tesla Roadster, and it convinced me that my next vehicle would have a plug, but to do that I would need to solve the charging issue.
    Over the last 2 years I have worked with the executive committee of the owners corporation to gain permission to install a separate electricity supply to the garage of my investment apartment and I have recently gained approval to do so, the installation is scheduled to happen in 2 weeks.
    Without going into too much detail the process involved writing a specific by-law (Rule of the building) that dealt with plug in vehicles.
    Contrary to my belief that they would think I was a crack-pot they were very interested in the process, a number expressed that they would like to do the same once plug-in vehicles become more available.
    If anyone wants more information, including a copy of the by-laws, PM me on this forum.
     
  5. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    Is it fair to say, that in an environment like Hong Kong, it is only sensible to:

    1. Install 220volt 13amp chargers at home and office car parks (where charge duration will likely be 8 hours or more)
    2. Install high speed chargers at short-term locations (airport, shopping malls, etc)

    I get about 10km range added for every 1 hour at 13amp 220volt.

    To me, there seems to be little point in deploying 13amp 220volt chargers in shopping malls, or on-street parking, where people stay for just a couple of hours, but that is the emphasis here in Hong Kong.

    I realise that this has been discussed elsewhere here, but I am interested in the situation in Hong Kong. There are no long trips here, and no-one would have an electric car for an overnight hotel stay (ok, almost no-one). Countries like Singapore are in the same situation.
     
  6. emq

    emq Member

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  7. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #7 TEG, Jun 3, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2011
  8. amwt

    amwt Member

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    In spite of the dominance of a handful of conglomerates and lack of progress in antitrust legislation in Hong Kong, I think telecommunications is one shining light where the market is intensely competitive and has resulted in tangible consumer benefits. Perhaps OTFA's guidelines and related statutory rights regarding building and facility access can provide useful references

    http://www.ofta.gov.hk/en/tas/ftn/ta950518.html
    http://www.ofta.gov.hk/en/tas/ftn/950518a.html

    Unfortunately there is no competition in electricity generation, transmission and distribution at all in Hong Kong.
     
  9. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    In particular given where they came from (unbalanced monopoly with a guaranteed 16% return on investment, with unprofitable domestic service subsidized by IDD). I spent some years working with OFTA during the PNETS fiasco at the birth of the Internet in Hong Kong. The situation now is a lot better.

    I've had some interesting conversations off-forum about this topic, and have been meaning to update.
     
  10. amwt

    amwt Member

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    As Mark said those few who live in houses in Hong Kong are sorted. Those who are in blocks/estates with well run Incorporated Owners will also stand a reasonable chance with a bit of politicking and persuasion with the committee. The worst will be those new or near new developments with the developers still running the building management scam. The key to new developments is for the developers to think that EV chargers are a "luxury" feature good for their gimmicky marketing. The key to sold developments still under puppet building management appointed/owned by the original developers is for the owners to kick them out.
     
  11. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    LCQ 12: Charging stations for electric vehicles

    My opinion remains that the core fundamental issue is that slow 13amp charging in shopping centres is not feasible in the long term. The only solution is day-time office and/or night-time home charging - and that is going to require legislative enforcement (something like an easement) to be workable.

    If there is anyone in Hong Kong (reading this), who is having trouble, please contact me and/or Hon Chan Hak-kan. We definitely need some test cases to highlight the issues.
     
  12. Model S_HKG

    Model S_HKG Member

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    I have been fighting with the OC of Leighton Hill in Happy Valley for almost 2 years and still no luck. This little OC party won't even bother to see me or EMSD face to face to discuss for any possibility of installation. Lately, I have been interviewed by the Hong Kong Economic Times, hopefully it will stir up some discussion.

    I couldn't understand why being an owner of an apartment property that I am living in would not have no right to install a power point!! I don't see why I have no choice of choosing to drive an electric car because of these idiotic OC of apartment buildings.

    The HKSAR and EB are doing so much to promote the use of EVs in HK, which is a great thing and HK is one of the most suitable place for EV. I hope the new Chief Executive would agree to provide some incentive to apartment, say discount in electricity for those that install charging stations.
     
  13. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    #13 meloccom, Dec 8, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
    You firstly need to get on the Owners Corporation if possible.
    Show them California Bill SB209
    SB 209 Senate Bill - AMENDED
    The important clause is:
    This bill would provide that any covenant, restriction, or condition contained in any deed, contract, security instrument, or other instrument affecting the transfer or sale of any interest in acommon interest development, or any provision of the governing documents of a common interest development, that effectively prohibits or restricts the installation or use of an electrical vehicle charging station is void and unenforceable.

    Ev's are and will be a global phenomenon and similar legislation will be proposed in many places including Hong Kong. So it's in their own interest to control the introduction of EV chargers than have them forced on them in the future and having to suddenly struggle with the effects of any future legislation.
     
  14. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    Do you own the car park space or just rent? I'm interested in finding a test case to force the issue.
     
  15. Model S_HKG

    Model S_HKG Member

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    I own the apartment and parking space.
     
  16. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    I'll PM you to discuss what is possible. Thanks, Mark.
     
  17. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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    I had the same problem with my own space in our underground garage. in the owners meeting, i announced, that i will install a power-socket on my own expenses. According our law i can do this without the permission of the others owner as long i would not create any other unacceptable harm to others owners right. Setting up the charging equipment is a correct use of the parking lot, because its needed to uses a EV. But I cannot ask, that a common infrastructure hast do be setup at the owners cost.

    Best is, you announce that you will install your socket/Box within a period of time (one month), if no written order is given that you cannot do it. If the deny, you can to the court to override this.
     
  18. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    Eberhard,

    Surely you had to go through common areas? And put in a new separate meter? I guess the law in Germany seems different. While we have 'easement' regulations for utility access through common areas, they don't cover car parks normally.
     
  19. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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    I had to go from the switchboard through the cellar, crossing 3 walls to my parking lot.
     
  20. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    must have been a painful experience...
    blog_20091123_012.jpg
     

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