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Honest review of the wheel

You could do it either way to cancel the turn signal.
This is the defense of this clearly unsafe design flaw?

It’s a safety issue that you have to push it almost to reverse to disengage autopilot, or could get confused and turn on (or fail to turn off) a turn signal while trying to cancel it. They should get stalks off the road before people are killed.
 

strider

Active Member
Oct 20, 2010
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NE Oklahoma
This is the defense of this clearly unsafe design flaw?

It’s a safety issue that you have to push it almost to reverse to disengage autopilot, or could get confused and turn on (or fail to turn off) a turn signal while trying to cancel it. They should get stalks off the road before people are killed.
Or go back to the S/X setup with a dedicated AP stalk. No way to mess that up.
 
This is the defense of this clearly unsafe design flaw?

It’s a safety issue that you have to push it almost to reverse to disengage autopilot, or could get confused and turn on (or fail to turn off) a turn signal while trying to cancel it. They should get stalks off the road before people are killed.
I know you’re trolling, but this is idiocy at its finest. Maybe you’d have a point if the buttons were tactile and distinct so that you could tell what you’re pressing without taking your eyes off the road.
 
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I know you’re trolling, but this is idiocy at its finest. Maybe you’d have a point if the buttons were tactile and distinct so that you could tell what you’re pressing without taking your eyes off the road.
I’ve never looked at my turn signal buttons…

Why is this trolling? Are all the other hand-wringers trolling also? I thought this was just an opinion - something that everyone else who doesn’t own a refresh car seems to have plenty of (with a little humor thrown in). 😁
 

StealthP3D

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Dec 12, 2018
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Maple Falls, WA
I actually saw the model X on a list of ‘Worst Cars in America.’ I don’t know if I would say that but the article pointed to the notorious reliability as the reason.

Maybe you are not aware that the auto industry has a full-court press going against Tesla. This is not a wacky conspiracy theory - it's the obvious truth once you have done the research.

Sadly, automotive journals and websites live or die on the teat of the auto industry. All of their revenue they need for paychecks and to keep the lights on, with only minor exceptions, comes directly from automakers (not Tesla). Even the regular mainstream media has automakers as their single largest source of ad revenue. Tesla doesn't buy ads and are not in the club. The more market share Tesla gains, the sooner legacy auto goes bankrupt and stops buying ads.

The net result of all this industry cronyism are articles about cars that are so biased it's hilarious to someone in the know. It's not impacting Tesla's ability to sell cars because their strategy is to make them so superior to the competition they can sell every one they make as soon as they make it. And Tesla relies on word of mouth from friends, family and co-workers to clue in the uninitiated to how good the cars are. But the articles about Tesla in mainstream publications almost always have major built-in anti-Tesla bias. They try to hide it but not very successfully if you know much about the subject matter.
 
Maybe you are not aware that the auto industry has a full-court press going against Tesla. This is not a wacky conspiracy theory - it's the obvious truth once you have done the research.

Sadly, automotive journals and websites live or die on the teat of the auto industry. All of their revenue they need for paychecks and to keep the lights on, with only minor exceptions, comes directly from automakers (not Tesla). Even the regular mainstream media has automakers as their single largest source of ad revenue. Tesla doesn't buy ads and are not in the club. The more market share Tesla gains, the sooner legacy auto goes bankrupt and stops buying ads.

The net result of all this industry cronyism are articles about cars that are so biased it's hilarious to someone in the know. It's not impacting Tesla's ability to sell cars because their strategy is to make them so superior to the competition they can sell every one they make as soon as they make it. And Tesla relies on word of mouth from friends, family and co-workers to clue in the uninitiated to how good the cars are. But the articles about Tesla in mainstream publications almost always have major built-in anti-Tesla bias. They try to hide it but not very successfully if you know much about the subject matter.
This is a good point. Articles with a title like that can mislead seriously.
With all the worrying about the X, I took a look at our very own Model X refresh issue tracking sheet.

Observe: There are very few critical issues. Like: you WILL be able to drive it. It WILL basically function.

Pretty much everything else is icing on the cake.
Don’t get me wrong. I want icing on my cake. It should be delivered with icing, YES. But, I can ice my cake after I get it, if need be.
 
Yes, that’s what it does - I know exactly how it works. It’s working as designed. Except if you’re in autopilot, then pushing down to the soft detent just blinks but doesn’t change lanes. You have to push down to the hard detent for it to execute a lane change (or I guess hold it down in that soft-detent zone which is silly). That’s dumb (and my legacy S wasn’t like that - you tap and it changes lanes - you don’t have to push the stalk all the way). And if I’m driving manually and decide 3 blinks isn’t enough and click it down to the hard detent to execute a lane change, I have to manually stop it from blinking - which counter intuitively requires you to tap a little bit, again, in the same direction... Yes this is how every other car works - my point (which everyone here is too busy being defensive of their worldview to see the facetiousness in) was that the refresh S is actually fine, and the things people have taken for granted are just habit, not “objectively better design”.

Anyway, as you were - everyone can continue bitching that they’d totally buy a new S tomorrow if it just had a wheel and filing NHTSA complaints in the meantime.
you "have to move it manually to stop it from blinking" - just like every other car on there road. And you have a problem with this?

I tried it out on my Y today while using auto pilot. As you said, to change lanes in autopilot you have to press it all the way down. It's not that tough and its' always been like that since I got my Y in 2020 so I don't know anything else, but my interpretation is that it ensures you really meant to change lanes, so if you simply bump the turn stalk by mistake it won't proceed.

To stop it from blinking you can actually push it half way down or up, or push it all the way up in the opposite direction. Again, not that tough and pushing it half way up in the opposite direction seems pretty intuitive to me.

Again, I'm not sure what your point with all this is? Are you in some perverse way trying to argue that the yoke with no stalks is better because you can't figure out how to use the turn signal?
 
It's funny (or not) that 4 to 1 owner reviews of the Yoke are positive, yet 1 in 4 of unbiased reviews are negative. I guess when you own it, at over $100K, it better be good! Just funny how perception changes based on the interest in the vehicle. Have driven the yoke several times. If I were to buy one, absolutely would be changing it to one of the after market options for a full wheel. I use the top half of the wheel almost exclusively in my most comfortable driving position.
 
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mswlogo

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Aug 27, 2018
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MA, NH
It's funny (or not) that 4 to 1 owner reviews of the Yoke are positive, yet 1 in 4 of unbiased reviews are negative. I guess when you own it, at over $100K, it better be good! Just funny how perception changes based on the interest in the vehicle. Have driven the yoke several times. If I were to buy one, absolutely would be changing it to one of the after market options for a full wheel. I use the top half of the wheel almost exclusively in my most comfortable driving position.
Top of wheel never worked with Auto Pilot any way.

Driven it several times vs a few 1000 miles is very different.

I totally was ready to do after market if needed. Totally the last thing on my mind now. Wouldn’t do now it if we’re a free offer from Tesla.

And of the complaints. I think more have issues with lack of stalks than a non round wheel.

I finally had a chance in testing it with backing up a trailer. Felt absolutely fine.

Funny how perceptions change. Yeah because it takes a good amount of miles to “get it”. I think I even prefer the horn button. But I have not used horn in emergency yet.

My only complaint is skip song on model X Raven was a right arrow on the left hand. I skip a lot of songs. I keep hitting right blinker to get to the next song. That’s a lot of muscle memory to unlearn ;) And I don’t like clicking side of scroll wheels for anything. But that’s a minor nit.
 
And of the complaints. I think more have issues with lack of stalks than a non round wheel.
That's my other HUGE issue with the whole setup. They had a chance to do something really special if they wanted to be different, but think they missed the boat on it. Tesla lately, has been making many changes just for sake of being different without those changes actually be better. I'm all for changes that are better.

The lack of stalks is just another item. They could have put physical buttons on the back of the wheel that you can "feel" and still be hidden from view to accomplish their minimalist look. No reason what so ever to not have the horn in the middle since the same big pad is still there. The shifter on the screen was my final deal breaker. Trying to make a quick 3-point turn with cars coming at me scared the crap out of me. Even a half a second delay can be critical in such situations. Many far better ways they could have implemented a better shifter onto the back of the wheel where again, you can feel it.

My biggest issue is having to distract and LOOK for too many items on the Model 3 and now even more on the Model S. I want to be able to instinctively feel for what I need and go to it without having to look or think about it. Any thought given to it means you're distracted, even if minimally. If you have to look, that means you're not looking at the road while you're looking for whatever control you're looking for.

I know many will debate it, but there's virtually argument I've been able to find that supports that these items are SAFER features than what we previously had, while there are certainly several valid arguments to the contrary.

Elon is designing these cars to be "driverless". When that comes, fine, do what you want. In the meantime, as long I still have to DRIVE the car, I want everyday driver friendly function and utility from it. The Model 3 took several steps back in that regard. The Model S took several more. I still believe the pre-refresh Model S & X was a good mix between minimalism while still retaining full driver control at your finger tips that a simple flick of the finger will accomplish, rather than a head turning motion toward the center screen or down to the steering wheel. Finding things to the right of that 17 inch screen is a challenge while driving, something that was never an issue with the vertical screen. I don't buy my cars to watch movies in them the few times I'm in my car while it's stopped. I'd rather it be better for the 98% of the I'm using the vehicle than the 2% of the time I'm not driving it and the wide screen plays movies nicer.

Again, all of the above, just based on my personal preference, use and needs from a car I have to get in and out of 10 times+ a day. And while I haven't driven thousands of miles in the new version, I have driven several hundred miles. I've also simulated driving my own Model S as if the top of the wheel wasn't there. Somehow, someway, despite my insistence to myself to not touch it under any circumstance, I always find an excuse or reason to do so. The wheel was designed in the manner it was for a reason. We still have to drive these cars just the same as we did 50 years ago. The demands of a driver have only increased. The tools should increase with them, not decrease as they have with the Tesla, until such a day comes that we can truly be passengers of our cars. Until then, not willing to give up my simple blinker function, shifter function, horn function, steering function. I spent so much time with refreshed version as I do have an open mind and hoped it would grow on me to love it, not just "get used to it" and "live with it" but to appreciate why it's BETTER than the old way. So far, I still can't find that answer!
 
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Maybe I'm a lone voice here, but I prefer the new yoke without stalks. Yes, it took a few days to get used to, but now if Tesla offered to replace it for free with antique-style steering and stalks, I'd say no. Not sure why some hate it so much, but I prefer it. I can also see it could be a pain for those that have two cars - one with the yoke and another old car without.

On the pluses - Doesn't block the instrument cluster, it is easier to get in and out of the car, easier to hold with one hand, turn signals are easier and love that it usually turns off automatically in many places like lane changes or exits. I also like the cleaner modern look. The biggest safety reason is it eliminates holding the wheel above the 9-3 o'clock positions which can severely hurt you if the airbag goes off.

The automatic Drive/Reverse needs to get better as I find it's about 95% accurate. Oddly in some parking situations, it selects drive when there is clearly a car parked in front - not always, but enough to keep you on your toes.

Not sure I see any negatives for me. It's interesting that other car companies are now copying the yoke design. I suspect it may be the standard in 10 years, perhaps even by regulation due to the safety value.
 
This Edmunds Review at 27:40 of the video says exactly how I feel about Tesla's yoke....during their review of the Lucid, several months later. The second video is the original review and conclusion at the 22:45 mark. That was September, 2021. So, 7 months later, opinion still hadn't changed. Pretty much the same boat I'm in. Keep trying, hoping for that "ah-ha" moment and revelation that it's good, because Tesla says it is. But, as much as I've loved Tesla over the past 9 years, I've never been one that falls for their "because we said so, so it must be so" attitude. It is what it is. Each will will have their own opinions of it. Most will never love it, many will not like it, but find a way to live with it and several will simply choose not to buy the car. Someday, as it was in 2019 when Tesla was desperate to sell cars and slashed pricing, Tesla will start to listen to customers. All I ever asked for was just the "OPTION" to be able to choose one or the other. Those that love it, can still have it. Those that don't, could still get a full normal wheel. Don't see what's wrong with that? It's ok to appeal to people that don't agree with everything Elon says! :)


 
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mswlogo

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Aug 27, 2018
7,896
7,352
MA, NH
There are so many things in life that one CHOOSES to like or dislike something. It’s not because one choice is right or wrong.

You can CHOOSE that you WANT the Yoke to work or you can CHOOSE that you DON’T want the Yoke to work.

95% of owners decided they want the car and give the Yoke a shot and like it. 5% still hate it and go to great lengths to modify it.

I read the delivery thread regularly and I don’t recall one saying the Yoke is terrible and needs to go, not one.

Like the micro dot idea to help find the horn button. It’s a great Idea. I don’t think I’ll bother because I use the horn rarely in panic mode. It’s usually premeditated so I position my finger ahead. Same way I do conversional all horn. Horn is supposed to get a software update one of these days.

If you drive like the Edmunds guy regularly on a tight test track, by all means get a round wheel. I’ve never driven like that lock to lock drifting in my life and never plan to.

I wish the Mic button would hang up a call. My guess is they will do that eventually.
 
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There are so many things in life that one CHOOSES to like or dislike something. It’s not because one choice is right or wrong.

You can CHOOSE that you WANT the Yoke to work or you can CHOOSE that you DON’T want the Yoke to work.

95% of owners decided they want the car and give the Yoke a shot and like it. 5% still hate it and go to great lengths to modify it.

I read the delivery thread regularly and I don’t recall one saying the Yoke is terrible and needs to go, not one.

Like the micro dot idea to help find the horn button. It’s great Idea. I don’t think I’ll bother because I use the horn rarely in panic mode. It’s usually premeditated so I position my finger ahead. Same way I do conversions all horn. Horn suppose to get a software update one of these days.

If you drive like the Edmunds guy regularly on a tight test track, by all means get a round wheel. I’ve never driven like that lock to lock drifting in my life and never plan to.
You’re trying to argue that people aren’t allowed to have a negative opinion because that just means you’ve chosen not to like it. You can make something work without liking it; it’s not the same thing. I don’t like V11, but I make it work. If you like the yoke, fine, but it’s very possible that others simply don’t like it.

Making the yoke standard was a pretty stupid move by Tesla if you ask me. A wheel is standard on virtually every other car on the planet. They work, people can use them and most people like them. WHen you do something radical like the yoke you will have some people who like it, some people who are ambivalent and/or tolerate it and others who simply hate it. Making it standard is only a positive for the people who love it. For everyone else it’s either neutral or a negative. The fact that people say it takes a thousand miles if driving to really get used to it is telling, too. I haven’t seen any numbers, but the impression I’ve gotten is that maybe 30% of the people love it.

Now fast forward to the time your’e going to sell your car. You have a ‘feature’ that a minority of people love and a lot of people hate. Further more, it takes a significant amount of time to get used to it, so someone who is test driving the car will generally have a negative opinion. In this setting, the only people for whom it will be a true positive are the people who’ve had experience with the yoke in the past and like it. My guess is it will end up hurting resale values.
 

mswlogo

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Aug 27, 2018
7,896
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People are reselling LR’s and Plaids no problem. And they can test drive it. I used to sell private. But at these high price tags I’ve been trading. So it doesn’t matter what’s in it.

You say a minority only want it yet Tesla can’t make them fast enough.

I didn’t love it one bit before I bought it. I was very skeptical and researched 3rd party options. Also researched renting before. I’m glad I didn’t rent one, because it takes a lot longer than a assess than a day or week rental. But I was open minded to try it before considering any 3rd party options.

To my surprise, it’s fine. As it is to most owners. 1300 miles and I’m still adjusting.

I keep using right blinker for next song because that was what right arrow button did in the left hand on my prerefresh X.
 
I don't see myself ever in the X or S market so hopefully they keep the yoke in that price bracket. If I could find one practical use for the yoke maybe there would be something to it. But no matter how hard I try I can't see any reason it exists. But I'm sure if I really wanted the model I would just get used to it.
Just like anything else you eventually adapt.

@serendipitous sorry to hear about the trouble you're taking it well.
 
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I switch back and forth every day between my refreshed S and my 3. Every time I have to do a multi point turn to put the car in the garage. Depending on who parks near my garage, it could be either a 3 or 6 point turn.

The yoke setup totally sucks in this situation. So much easier to tap a stalk up or down to change direction. I can do it without looking or taking my hands off the wheel. Exiting my street on a VERY busy main artery, there is a row of park cars that obscure oncoming traffic from the left. You often can't tell if it is safe to proceed until your nose of the car is literally half way into the lane. Can't tell you how much easier the stalks are to find in this situation and quickly reverse. In the S I almost got hit because I couldn't get the car quickly enough into reverse and there was no possibility to proceed forward.

These are 2 use cases I deal with every day, sometimes multiple times a day, where the S absolutely sucks compared to the 3. Absolutely NO WAY of quickly engaging reverse in this situation with the S. You almost always have to take your eyes off the road to find the screen or stupid console buttons. Not to mention the gear selector won't come up on the screen while rolling so you have to brake to get it. On the 3 you can be rolling and go from forward to reverse or back while the car is rolling as long as it isn't too fast. I'd love to have a long discussion with the moron(s) at Tesla who designed this from one engineer to another.

I can tolerate the yoke more but I think it should have been smaller. The need to fix the useless right button so you can adjust following distance as well. While at it, the made the reach for the buttons on the yoke that almost none of them are in reach for my wife to use with her hands on the wheel. Apparently they only wanted mostly men to drive the S/X.
^ One of the best explanations yet why on screen ‘shifting’ is unsafe. It’s inexcusable; an utterly infuriating deal breaker. (The console-mounted touch buttons are no solution—they only exist for the inevitable moments when the screen is unresponsive.) I too must make multipoint turns daily, and constantly pull into traffic where visibility is blocked—that’s just life in the city, do people not realize this? It’s the single biggest reason I’ve not purchased a new S, and won’t. It’s so bad I can’t believe it made production. But Tesla has always treated customers as beta testers, so I admit I shouldn’t have been surprised.
 
^ One of the best explanations yet why on screen ‘shifting’ is unsafe. It’s inexcusable; an utterly infuriating deal breaker. (The console-mounted touch buttons are no solution—they only exist for the inevitable moments when the screen is unresponsive.) I too must make multipoint turns daily, and constantly pull into traffic where visibility is blocked—that’s just life in the city, do people not realize this? It’s the single biggest reason I’ve not purchased a new S, and won’t. It’s so bad I can’t believe it made production. But Tesla has always treated customers as beta testers, so I admit I shouldn’t have been surprised.
Well, I haven’t used the yoke IRL yet, but, I would point out that these frustrations about “having to pull into traffic partway to get a view” demonstrates why a first-principles approach to (at least) camera placement (for FSD) would be optimal. If placed at the corners of the vehicle, the situational awareness would be fantastic.

As far as this frustration, idk, I would feel the edge of the screen with my right hand?
 

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