well, I am an engineer. More importantly I understand how a turn signal stalk works, so I'm good!
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Honest review of the wheel
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Agreed. Even the people who like it say it took them a month or so to get used to it. If it takes a month to get used to it, maybe there's a design issue. @strider is right on about there being a cognitive bias to like it. They copied the yoke of a plane, but driving a car is not flying a plane. Making it standard rather than an option is truly baffling.
There is a video out there where someone figured out how to take the Model 3's column, with stalks and wheel and make them work on the Model S. So it "can" be done. Changing the wheel itself is fairly easy, but changing the column and getting the stalks to work I would imagine is a bit complex. Had Tesla just offered it as an option, many more would be attracted to it. But apparently, at this point since they are selling more than they can build, I guess they really don't care. Probably their pay of managing demand without having to turn people down.
strider
Active Member
There is a thread on TMC here:
Work in progress: stalks on 2021 Model S. (and optional round-y wheel)
I'm going to consolidate the info here when I have more time, but finally got it all assembled last night. My notes are on the github link but reposting here for simplicity: Why? The yoke is .. fine .. but I do not like the haptic controls at all. I've driven @ 5k miles, and they just aren't...
Ryan has gone dark. If you read through that thread there was talk of working w/ one of the Tesla aftermarket companies to create a package. Not sure if that's in flight....
Options are good for customers. The free market is all about options.
But when a company is the only real mfr in the market, there is basically no competition/market pressure for options.
Personally I think the yoke is going to be instant love for me.
haha. I never knew a plane could double park and go in reverse to do so. Removing haptic feedback in a vehicle is so dumb, Tesla. So cheap. So dumb, cheap and arrogant, Elon.
Ha! We have duopolies and oligopolies now. Heck, we even have industries and companies writing legislation to benefit their own interests. There is a word for that... too.
Hayseed_MS
Spreader of "Endless Non Sequitur"
vcor
Member
Or maybe 1/10 if they didn't have the Yoke. Hard to say how many love it vs. those that hate it. It does seem to be polarizing. Then again, if demand was 10 times larger, there would be a 10-year wait to get one. Tesla does not have a demand issue, which may prove they made the right choice. I'm sure if demand was 1/10 due to the yoke, you'd be seeing Tesla go back to the antique round steering wheel, even if it is less safe. My guess is the next major refresh of the 3/Y will go to the safer Yoke design. By then, there will be competitors who don't care much about safety for those that want an old-style car.
You guys are seriously making me consider cancelling my order (well, not you guys specifically, but just all the issues and odd design choices that have been done on these cars).
I'm one of those (apparently?) few who don't like the yoke but ordered an S anyway, hoping I could modify it to get it to what I want. I was planning on swapping in a wheel, even though it would be nice to have a car that I don't have to modify and could just keep stock. But even then, there are issues I'm still worried about:
- Because of the pivot point of the yoke, all simple aftermarket wheel replacements will have strange offset rotations, right? I noticed this with one of the aftermarket wheels, and am curious if people who have installed one (like Strider, etc.) have an issue with this?
- Aftermarket wheels don't fix the turn signal, horn, and shifting interaction issues that people complain about as much as--if not more than--the yoke.
It's funny how all my concerns about Model S drivability would be solved had they just given a traditional wheel/column option. Especially that wonderful, small, Model 3 wheel...mmmm. Or at least a yoke implementation like Lexus with variable steering ratio (and, I guess, stalks).
And yes, you can force yourself to get used to these new controls, but that's always seemed like a horrible argument to me. You can also force yourself to get used to having no arms, no eyesight, no sense of taste, etc. That doesn't mean it makes sense to get rid of those. It'd be one thing if there were any actual benefits with the new features, but...
It's unfortunate to hear that Ryan H has gone dark--I was hoping somebody would commercialize his swapping process. My only real hope now is that the rumored "Round" vs. "Yolk" software switch will allow easy plug-and-play Model 3 wheel and steering column replacement (haven't found anybody who has actually tried that). Though then I'd still have to live with a hacked/modified car.
Yup. It's one thing to be forward thinking, but if it makes the current experience so much worse for so many people...how much sense does it make?
Actually, I think I figured it all out: they went to the yoke and removed the stalks to make it a horrible driving experience on purpose! They made the car so painful to drive that people would use autopilot more and beg/pay for autonomous driving. They even made the yoke handles uncomfortable (why are they so narrow and so deep?). They pulled out simple, no-look, tangible turn signal interaction. They made shifting the car's drive mode so slow and obnoxious that you have actually look down to do so. They made it so a good quarter of the time you'll be grabbing at air when trying to aim your car. And in case you get used to all of those...they hid the horn on ya, so your reflexes will no longer serve you when you need to honk.
In that case, Tesla's yoke design is a work of art, and it all makes sense. Just not great for people who actually like to drive, I guess.
Unfortunately, Tesla is selling so many cars that I don't think they have any reason to listen to whiners like me. I guess I do have some hope: it sounds like if I spend $100,000 or so, then I might subconsciously make myself like the setup? I might convince myself that it's somehow safer...that it gives me a better view of the dashboard...that I don't really need to honk at the car that's blindly entering my lane in front of me.
Yeah...all the reliability issues I've been seeing/reading about aren't helping instill confidence on my upcoming car, either. I'm used to Toyotas, but even my cars that were built in the back of a British barn made it nearly a decade before they needed fixing. Hopefully your Plaid X is running well, Strider?
Thanks all for letting me vent. For some reason saying "I don't like the yoke/the yoke is bad" is a very touchy subject, and I suppose it's because people don't want to feel the rig they spent a lot of money on is flawed. Or that Tesla is flawed. Or Elon is flawed. I think it's much like electric cars in general: at least when they were new, people who invested in them could be threatened by people who didn't like them (perhaps a fear of them not taking off?). Well, much like there's no reason to feel threatened by opinions on EVs anymore, there's no reason to get upset on people opinions of yokes, either. Imagine it like a car's stereo: some people are perfectly happy with whatever comes with the car. Others like to replace the OEM units with something else. And some others don't even want audio systems in their cars. But having the option is reeeeeaaaallly nice...
I know, I know: don't let the door run me over on the way out (it probably was also using the auto shifting feature). I mean, I don't want to go, but Elon is probably cancelling my reservation after this anyway. Either way, thanks for the yokes. I mean, jokes.
I'm one of those (apparently?) few who don't like the yoke but ordered an S anyway, hoping I could modify it to get it to what I want. I was planning on swapping in a wheel, even though it would be nice to have a car that I don't have to modify and could just keep stock. But even then, there are issues I'm still worried about:
- Because of the pivot point of the yoke, all simple aftermarket wheel replacements will have strange offset rotations, right? I noticed this with one of the aftermarket wheels, and am curious if people who have installed one (like Strider, etc.) have an issue with this?
- Aftermarket wheels don't fix the turn signal, horn, and shifting interaction issues that people complain about as much as--if not more than--the yoke.
It's funny how all my concerns about Model S drivability would be solved had they just given a traditional wheel/column option. Especially that wonderful, small, Model 3 wheel...mmmm. Or at least a yoke implementation like Lexus with variable steering ratio (and, I guess, stalks).
And yes, you can force yourself to get used to these new controls, but that's always seemed like a horrible argument to me. You can also force yourself to get used to having no arms, no eyesight, no sense of taste, etc. That doesn't mean it makes sense to get rid of those. It'd be one thing if there were any actual benefits with the new features, but...
It's unfortunate to hear that Ryan H has gone dark--I was hoping somebody would commercialize his swapping process. My only real hope now is that the rumored "Round" vs. "Yolk" software switch will allow easy plug-and-play Model 3 wheel and steering column replacement (haven't found anybody who has actually tried that). Though then I'd still have to live with a hacked/modified car.
Yup. It's one thing to be forward thinking, but if it makes the current experience so much worse for so many people...how much sense does it make?
Actually, I think I figured it all out: they went to the yoke and removed the stalks to make it a horrible driving experience on purpose! They made the car so painful to drive that people would use autopilot more and beg/pay for autonomous driving. They even made the yoke handles uncomfortable (why are they so narrow and so deep?). They pulled out simple, no-look, tangible turn signal interaction. They made shifting the car's drive mode so slow and obnoxious that you have actually look down to do so. They made it so a good quarter of the time you'll be grabbing at air when trying to aim your car. And in case you get used to all of those...they hid the horn on ya, so your reflexes will no longer serve you when you need to honk.
In that case, Tesla's yoke design is a work of art, and it all makes sense. Just not great for people who actually like to drive, I guess.
Unfortunately, Tesla is selling so many cars that I don't think they have any reason to listen to whiners like me. I guess I do have some hope: it sounds like if I spend $100,000 or so, then I might subconsciously make myself like the setup? I might convince myself that it's somehow safer...that it gives me a better view of the dashboard...that I don't really need to honk at the car that's blindly entering my lane in front of me.
Yeah...all the reliability issues I've been seeing/reading about aren't helping instill confidence on my upcoming car, either. I'm used to Toyotas, but even my cars that were built in the back of a British barn made it nearly a decade before they needed fixing. Hopefully your Plaid X is running well, Strider?
Thanks all for letting me vent. For some reason saying "I don't like the yoke/the yoke is bad" is a very touchy subject, and I suppose it's because people don't want to feel the rig they spent a lot of money on is flawed. Or that Tesla is flawed. Or Elon is flawed. I think it's much like electric cars in general: at least when they were new, people who invested in them could be threatened by people who didn't like them (perhaps a fear of them not taking off?). Well, much like there's no reason to feel threatened by opinions on EVs anymore, there's no reason to get upset on people opinions of yokes, either. Imagine it like a car's stereo: some people are perfectly happy with whatever comes with the car. Others like to replace the OEM units with something else. And some others don't even want audio systems in their cars. But having the option is reeeeeaaaallly nice...
I know, I know: don't let the door run me over on the way out (it probably was also using the auto shifting feature). I mean, I don't want to go, but Elon is probably cancelling my reservation after this anyway. Either way, thanks for the yokes. I mean, jokes.
Please tell us, exactly how is the yoke safer? Multiple outside reviews have noted safety issues, not the least of which is the fact that in an emergency it’s harder to find a place to grave. Living in MN, I wear gloves or mittens a significant part of the year. Touch buttons for turn signals, seriously???? It’s clear the people who designed it lived in southern California. I’ve seen several outside reviews and they are overwhelmingly negative.
It’s impossible to say how many people would actively choose the yoke if given the choice. If tesla had made it an option, we’d have a better idea. I’ve seen many people in different threads throw out the ‘there’s a wait list so it must be right’ argument. Except in the current market that doesn’t necessarily apply.
Here’s a review from Motor Trend that includes a nice video:
www.motortrend.com
2022 Tesla Model S Plaid Steering Yoke Review: So, Is It Good or a Gimmick?
Is Tesla's unconventional new steering yoke the way forward or a step backward?
@Murtaya - you have hit on all the issues with the S. If it wasn't for the yoke, it would likely be the best car I've ever owned and would likely drive it until it won't move under its own power. I appreciate the looks of the car every time I get in it. Mash the throttle and I forgive the yoke until I have to make tight turns.
The only other thing I am not a big fan of is the headlights. The ones on the 3 are better. I don't have the refreshed lights (hate the new taillights- too much like a big Model 3) but I drove one with the refreshed matrix lights and I can't see they are really a lot better either. Maybe time will change that when they can really unlock the software. I have say it is not a FOMO moment like I thought it might be.
I got my S3XY buttons and will set them up and see what I can do with them to help my experience. I hope they'll be able to do something about the gearshift at some point. I wrote them to see. Just give me button push to engage F or R and I'll be a lot happier.
About 22 days now until I get the wheel... I like that the wheel is a bit smaller than the yoke. That is a plus for me as well. I'll actually be able to wrap my hands around it easier too.
Also have to get my mud flaps sorted out. This thing just flings crap up from the road like a sandblaster under hard acceleration.
The only other thing I am not a big fan of is the headlights. The ones on the 3 are better. I don't have the refreshed lights (hate the new taillights- too much like a big Model 3) but I drove one with the refreshed matrix lights and I can't see they are really a lot better either. Maybe time will change that when they can really unlock the software. I have say it is not a FOMO moment like I thought it might be.
I got my S3XY buttons and will set them up and see what I can do with them to help my experience. I hope they'll be able to do something about the gearshift at some point. I wrote them to see. Just give me button push to engage F or R and I'll be a lot happier.
About 22 days now until I get the wheel... I like that the wheel is a bit smaller than the yoke. That is a plus for me as well. I'll actually be able to wrap my hands around it easier too.
Also have to get my mud flaps sorted out. This thing just flings crap up from the road like a sandblaster under hard acceleration.
Took me longer to get used to driving an EV, (one pedal efficiently, no instrument cluster, screen buttons) especially the Model 3 than the Yoke. I guess the whole car is a design flaw.
strider
Active Member
I bought my MX Plaid in spite of the yoke, but only after I learned that there are aftermarket wheel options. The lack of stalks is still annoying but minor compared to the yoke. Before I installed the wheel I was dead set on ordering a Louts Eletra and only keeping the MX until it arrived. But now that I've been driving the MX with a wheel, my feelings have changed. I really like this car. I like the interior layout/space, I like the FWDs (though my wife thinks they are too flashy), I like the power. So I have cooled on my desire for the Lotus.
I don't have that many miles on my MX but it has been reliable. I think Tesla is getting a handle on the production and newer builds seem to be much better than the older ones.
The wheel does have an eccentric path due to where the column sits. I drove my Volvo XC40 for the first time since getting my MX yesterday for the lease return. I noticed that it too has an eccentric path though not as much as the Hansshow wheel. I have not had an issue. My hands slide on the Hansshow wheel just fine and I am always able to grab the wheel without looking. I literally just do not think about it any more.
I don't have that many miles on my MX but it has been reliable. I think Tesla is getting a handle on the production and newer builds seem to be much better than the older ones.
The wheel does have an eccentric path due to where the column sits. I drove my Volvo XC40 for the first time since getting my MX yesterday for the lease return. I noticed that it too has an eccentric path though not as much as the Hansshow wheel. I have not had an issue. My hands slide on the Hansshow wheel just fine and I am always able to grab the wheel without looking. I literally just do not think about it any more.
vcor
Member
1) With the yoke you can't hold the wheel above the 9 and 3 o'clock positions. On the old-style round wheel, if the airbag fires and your hands are at the upper portion, it shoots your hands into your face, usually breaking both wrists and can cause serious damage to your face and even blindness.
2) The instrument cluster is not blocked by the upper part of the steering wheel. This is less of an issue as many people can adjust the steering or seat to compensate, but not all people. And you may have to compromise your seating position to make the instrument panel fully visible with a round wheel.
3) Stalk removal is a mixed bag in my opinion. Since there are no standards on stalks, as you switch different cars/brands/models, you have the risk of doing something bad because the cars operate differently. At least with the stalks gone, this risk is reduced. I've had no problem adapting to it, but it is different. I think the automatic drive control is cool, but a work in progress. I expect it to get better. I'd estimate it's about 95% accurate when called upon, but it really should be 100%.
4) Less of a safety issue, but a Yoke advantage is it's easier to get in and out of the car. Some other manufacturers also place a flat spot on the bottom of the steering wheel for this reason.
In most negative reviews I've seen, either people have not actually used the Yoke or they use it for a few hours and go in with hate (and there are a lot of Tesla haters out there). As for tight turns in a parking lot, I can rotate the yoke as fast or faster than a conventional steering wheel - it really is easy, but it is different. I understand some can't tolerate any change and there is nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of old-style cars available. Tesla has no problems selling everything they can make to those that like what they are doing. All I can say is if you don't like it, don't buy it - but also don't write it off without really trying it. You may be pleasantly surprised as I was.
1) Not an issue - just put your hands at whatever position you consider to be safe. Conversely, there are times when the supposedly ‘unsafe’ 9 and 3 positions are necessary when turning, making emergency maneuvers, etc. Beyond that, the recommendation assumes you will be driving straight ahead when the airbags deploy. More often drivers attempt to avoid the object by tuning the wheel making the hand position irrelevant. Verdict: Fail.
2) The instrument cluster is not blocked by a properly adjusted wheel. The 3 and Y don’t even have one. Verdict: Fail.
3) ‘there are no standards on stalks????” What world do you live in? Next to the steering wheel and accelerator/brake pedals, a turn signal stalk is the most standardized control in a car. It Exists in every other car on the market. Verdict: fail.
Ease of entry - I’m 6’5 and the only time I’ve had an issue getting in and out is when someone far shorter than me has last driven the car and then the problem isn’t the wheel, it’s the dash. This is another non issue.
Seriously - all of these are such incredible reaches they defy common sense and reason. If you really believe this then you’ve drunk so much of the tesla kool-aid that you’re beyond hope.
All of the reviews I’ve read were by people who drove the car for a week. The motor trend review with the video was especially telling. I’m sure some People do like the yoke, but to label everyone that doesn’t like it as a ‘hater’ is denying the facts. Again, I go to my previous statement - if it takes a month to get used to it then it’s a bad design.
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