Hong Kong First Registration Tax

[772]

Well it's finally over, but that was kind of odd to see... he sure seemed upset :tongue:

 

[markwj]

Garbage are meant to be thrown after all.

He got thrown out of the CE's policy address as well. I think he gets antsy if he sits in one place for too long. I think he is missing the point that to be an effective legislator you need to stick around for the vote.

 

[Lerxt]

So here is what we do.

We get the car of our dreams. Then we lobby the government to put FRT on electric vehicles. The we sell in 3 years for what we paid for it.

 

[CCT]

He got thrown out of the CE's policy address as well. I think he gets antsy if he sits in one place for too long. I think he is missing the point that to be an effective legislator you need to stick around for the vote.

You're right Mark. Not sure if you've been following HK so-called politics, but that IS exactly his point. All he does is: oppose whatever government is proposing, attack the speaker personally, make a scene by stupid acts so the Council has no choice but to throw him out. The result is: he gets to avoid listening the speeches or whatever discussions there may be and goes for coffee break. Consider his vote an ABSTAIN or a NO. I simply cannot understand who voted him for legislator.

 

[Lerxt]

Whether you like the man or not, he is the only politician in HK who has the guts to stand up for what he believes in. It's the foundation of democracy...oh wait....

 

[shiadawg]

Hi. I spoke to Tesla today. I don't think it's 100% that the FRT is renewed? It has only been proposed but they still have to vote on it? Any view on this? I don't want to pay an extra $500K for the car. Actually, I won't.... Appreciate any thoughts.

 

[Lerxt]

The legislature does what the government demands. Its not a democracy.

 

[shiadawg]

The legislature does what the government demands. Its not a democracy.

So you think it's a done deal? FRT is extended?

 

[Lerxt]

This is what the govt said in the speech


"For years, we have been promoting the use of electric vehicles by exempting them from First Registration Tax. I propose to extend the tax exemption by three years up to31 March 2017[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]."[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]Since the government permanently owns the majority of the votes in parliament I would say its a done deal. But you have to decide for yourself...[/FONT]

 

[waidy]

From my meeting with the Under Secretary of EPD and one of the Legislature Councilman for Finance few months ago, I was told everyone in the government supports it (CAP 330 extension). It was up to the Treasurer to tell them if it is economical feasible. I guess the speech told us his decision.

 

[markwj]

My personal opinion is that it is rubber stamp stage at this moment. The budget bill needs to be signed into law, but it would be very hard to stop this now - and think of the confusion if the government put something in the budget and then didn't follow through. A large number of politicians would also have to vote against the support for 'environmentally friendly vehicles'.

On a similar note, say this was already law, and you ordered the car on that basis. There would be nothing stopping the government changing the law before delivery, introducing a new tax, or other such measures that would affect you before delivery.

Closest analogy we have was the sudden FRT increase a few years ago - seeing the issue of order vs delivery, not to mention alleged conflict of interest in the finance committee, the government back-pedaled and gave back the difference to those who had ordered but not yet received delivery, I've got no idea of how that back-pedaling was technically implemented, but I don't see how they had time for a full council vote.

Lastly, I am not sure of the actual mechanics of this (given that it is likely to take several months to pass the budget appropriations bill, but FRT exemption is due to expire next month). I know the government had power to adjust expenditure items in committee (rather than a full council vote), and suspect that is how this will be handled.

Bottom line is the extension of the FRT waiver is now in a bill before Legco. The bill is not law, yet.

I'm confirming my Model S order today.

 

[ekwng]

Technically it is just a proposal by FS, however I don't think any Politicians would vote that down.

Environmental protection etc are big topics on moral high ground so no one would dare to say No.

Perhaps when EV getting too popular and traditional car importers may lobby for a fair playing field, but that won't happen in 5 years I think.

 

[markwj]

An embarrassed Hong Kong lawmaker has apologised after he was photographed looking at scantily-dressed pictures of models on his tablet computer during a budget speech at the Chinese city’s parliament.

Pro-democracy politician Albert Ho was snapped flipping through multiple photos of bikini-clad ladies while finance minister John Tsang delivered a one-and-a-half-hour long budget speech on Wednesday.

Lawmaker Albert Ho apologises over model photos | South China Morning Post

Perhaps he got bored, after waiting to hear if the EV FRT exemption was renewed.

 

[CCT]

Lawmaker Albert Ho apologises over model photos | South China Morning Post

Perhaps he got bored, after waiting to hear if the EV FRT exemption was renewed.

Scantily-dressed pictures of models on the 17" screen inside the Model S would be even nicer...

 

[markwj]

It appears that the original story was maliciously orchestrated. He wasn't looking at Models, he was looking at Model S. Must have been excited by the announcement of FRT waiver extension.

 

[DITB]

It appears that the original story was maliciously orchestrated. He wasn't looking at Models, he was looking at Model S. Must have been excited by the announcement of FRT waiver extension.

Models ... Model S ... it's just a space and a capital letter, easy to get confused by this if you are a tabloid journalist :tongue:

 

[lx3h]

Models ... Model S ... it's just a space and a capital letter, easy to get confused by this if you are a tabloid journalist :tongue:

Well. All I can say is he has taste

 

[DITB]

Well. All I can say is he has taste

Exactly, both are nice to both drive and look at. Ooops, I think it's getting quite laid in the evening now, better go to bed.

 

[CCT]

Exactly, both are nice to both drive and look at. Ooops, I think it's getting quite laid in the evening now, better go to bed.

LOL

 

[markwj]

With the help of the EPD, I've managed to clarify the mechanics behind the implementation of the extension for the FRT waiver.

Today (5th March) at 4:30pm a LegCo subcommittee will meet to approve going forward with this change:

Legislative Council of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region - Subcommittee on Proposed Resolution under Section 5(4) of the Motor Vehicles (First Registration Tax) Ordinance (Agenda) 5 March 2014

The proposed legislative change is here:

http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr13-14/english/hc/papers/hc0228cb3-440-e.pdf

with Legal Services Division "no objection" report here:

http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr13-14/english/hc/papers/hc0228ls-32-e.pdf

and LegCo briefing paper here:

http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr13-14/english/hc/sub_leg/sc10/papers/sc100305cb1-1027-1-e.pdf

Subject to the agreement of LegCo, the Secretary for the Environment will move the resolution for approval during March. There is a small confusion on the exact date - the resolution paper itself says 19th March 2014 and the LegCo briefing says 26th March 2014. Whichever - they're trying to get this done before the 31st March expiry date (presumably to avoid the grey area of vehicles registered after 31st March but before the resolution passes).

The resolution itself is very simple: "Repeal 2014, Substitute 2017". It is not tangled up with anything else, and I can't see anything stopping it.

What I find interesting is the justifications listen by Government in this:

JUSTIFICATIONS

* Tackling roadside air pollution is our priority. EVs have no tailpipe emissions. The wider use of EVs can help improve roadside air quality and combat climate change.

* The price of EVs is still much higher than that of conventional vehicles and can be a double. The current FRT for private cars ranges from 40% to 115% of their listed prices. While EVs have a lower energy cost, the FRT waiver could help offset their higher price premium and is a key element of the Government’s strategy in promoting the use of EVs, which is outlined at Annex A.

According to the Transport Department (TD), 432 EVs were registered in the past five years with an FRT forgone of about $132 million, bringing the total number of EVs to 592 units, up from 74 in end 2010 and 242 in end 2011. We estimate that the number of newly registered EVs will continue to increase in the coming years due to the Government’s promotion and more vehicle manufacturers putting their EVs on the local market. However, it is difficult to predict the amount of FRT forgone at this stage but the sum involved should be insignificant.

Here is the quoted strategy document:

Annex A - Government’s Strategy in Promoting the Use of Electric Vehicles

* Tax incentives for promoting EVs have been put in place. They include exempting EVs from FRT since 1994 and allowing enterprises that have procured EVs to have 100% profits tax deduction for the capital expenditure on EVs in the first year of procurement.

* A $300 million Pilot Green Transport Fund has been put in place since March 2011 for application by the public transport operators and goods vehicle owners, encouraging them to try out innovative green and low carbon transport technologies (including EVs).

* Liaison with the EV manufacturers and dealers to encourage them to introduce EVs into Hong Kong. At present, 26 EV models from 7 countries have been type-approved by the Transport Department (TD).

* A dedicated team and a hotline (3757 6222) are in operation to help EV owners or buyers to set up EV chargers at strata-titled car parks. Besides, guidelines have been issued to prospective EV buyers on how to set up chargers at their own car parks and letters were issued to around 7 400 owners’ organisations appealing for their support.

* Since April 2011, car parks have been required to be “EV charging-enabling” if the developer wishes to obtain concessions on gross floor area. All parking spaces are required to put in place at the building construction stage the infrastructure and conditions, including electrical wiring and provision of sufficient power supply, to facilitate future installation of chargers.

* Planning guidelines for new buildings have been amended to recommend 30% of car parking spaces to be installed with standard chargers.

* A pilot scheme to enable suppliers of electric taxis to install quick chargers at car parks administered by TD will be launched. A total of 100 medium chargers will also be provided in various districts to shorten charging time. As compared with normal chargers, medium chargers can save the charging time by up to 60% respectively.