Hong Kong First Registration Tax

[Optic]

Agree with ditb, at some point it needs to be canceled much like What has happened to our parking perks. Same thing happened to the low emission tax break that was canceled earlier last year. Eventually Most cars met low emissions requirements (original goal) and the incentive could be removed. We Tesla owners have been pampered with free parking and electricity perks as well and some of us feel that we are entitled. To me, in fact these are all perks Which we should only be grateful for and expect us to be treated like any regular driver.

 

[Lerxt]

Lerxt,

To be realistic, we risk that the FRT exemption will be entirely abandoned in 2017. There are strong forces in government who are trying to cancel it entirely. This measure is meeting them and mitigating this risk - providing a fair solution.

But I am posting it here, to encourage discussion, and there is your viewpoint. I agree, it would be nice to keep it as it is, for another 3, or even 5 years. We will discuss it in Charged.hk, and gauge some of our contacts in LegCo (they can tell us how the odds are for another extension).

You have a group of backward "legislators" who really have no idea about how to run a civil society, much less a Transport Policy. They have massive pollution problems and need everyone in Ev's. And your answer to this is to give them ideas about how to tax EV's more? The last advice they got was from the Apple Daily and that resulted in our autopilot disappearing. How about you not put ideas in their head and let Telsa deal with it? Charged.hk is acting against EV owners interests, I'd suggest you keep out of it.

 

[Lee Tsui]

If anyone approaches them it should be to massage their fickle Cantonese egos and jerk them off about how smart they are they gave 0 FRT to EV and how much it is improving the city.

I think the approach of polishing their egos and celebrating the PARTIAL success of their scheme (as full success is to remove all transport pollution from the streets) and to encourage them to keep up the good work.

I don't think proposing a new taxation system will work because the proposal I just saw seems too overcomplicated.

What I would consider as a fair proposal is that they offer 0% FRT or significantly lower FRT on EV cars below $50,000HKD and any value over that would be liable for a discounted luxury EV car FRT say of 25%.

This would be similar to Australia's current luxury car tax of around 30% of anything over $70k AUD (which is **** there in comparison to HK, because that luxury car rate is pretty much the same as regular cars there so you benefit nothing from EV really in AUS)

But at least this way, people with less disposable income are more inclined to change to an affordable EV such as a Model 3 or BMW i3.

Besides selfishly for me I wouldn't mind a bit of FRT adding to EV's as then my 2nd hand car value increases just in time to emigrate and buy a Model X with the spoils muhohohoho.

You have a group of backward "legislators" who really have no idea about how to run a civil society, much less a Transport Policy. They have massive pollution problems and need everyone in Ev's. And your answer to this is to give them ideas about how to tax EV's more? The last advice they got was from the Apple Daily and that resulted in our autopilot disappearing. How about you not put ideas in their head and let Telsa deal with it? Charged.hk is acting against EV owners interests, I'd suggest you keep out of it.

 

[DITB]

You have a group of backward "legislators" who really have no idea about how to run a civil society, much less a Transport Policy. They have massive pollution problems and need everyone in Ev's. And your answer to this is to give them ideas about how to tax EV's more? The last advice they got was from the Apple Daily and that resulted in our autopilot disappearing. How about you not put ideas in their head and let Telsa deal with it? Charged.hk is acting against EV owners interests, I'd suggest you keep out of it.

We are not just going to sit back and do nothing, while they cancel the FRT exemption entirely.

That's why we have the discussion HERE (and elsewhere), to find the best way forward. Sure, if we find that the majority wants another extension - that's great! But there has been a lot of noise along the lines of "HK financing rich peoples luxury cars". You and me and most people in here knows that in this early stage of the technology, EVs needs a push to compete with ICEVs, but many people just see a loophole for tax evasion.

With so many EVs on the roads now, most of them costing between half a million and a million, it would be more challenging to keep these dark forces out. Crossing fingers and praying, hoping the problem will solve itself, is not what I suggest as the best solution. If we don't speak up, only the people who are against EVs will be heard. The proposal is a very mild transition, which will take over 8 years to implement. Over those 8 years, battery technology and mass production should have passed ICE/fossil based vehicles already.

Differentiating between ICEVs and EVs at a later stage could be manifested in a proper pollution tax, not registration tax.

 

[waidy]

I think point should be made (in additions to all your good points) would be the financial benefit on reduction of health care caused by the pollution. In additions, how would the money saved in health care to help on road maintenance in Hong Kong. I would really like 100% FRT be waived for BEVs.

 

[lx3h]

Hedley Environmental Index

I think point should be made (in additions to all your good points) would be the financial benefit on reduction of health care caused by the pollution. In additions, how would the money saved in health care to help on road maintenance in Hong Kong. I would really like 100% FRT be waived for BEVs.

Waidy, I agree, health is money, as shown by the Hedley Environmental Index by HKU.

Hedley Environmental Index

I always think the best way to promote EV is to raise ICE FRT by 100%.

 

[markwj]

You have a group of backward "legislators" who really have no idea about how to run a civil society, much less a Transport Policy. They have massive pollution problems and need everyone in Ev's. And your answer to this is to give them ideas about how to tax EV's more? The last advice they got was from the Apple Daily and that resulted in our autopilot disappearing. How about you not put ideas in their head and let Telsa deal with it? Charged.hk is acting against EV owners interests, I'd suggest you keep out of it.

Huh? Why charged.hk? What has this got to do with charged.hk? Perhaps you are mistaking DITB's personal views with charged.hk policy? My own personal view is that 100% FRT exemption should be maintained for EVs, and FRT should be gradually increased for fossil fuelled vehicles, until every last fossil fuelled car is off the roads. But, that is a personal view, and given where we are today I don't think it will be achievable.

To be clear: The policy of charged.hk is that incentives are required to accelerate the adoption of EVs into HK, and this FRT incentive is a large part of that. It should be maintained.

The question here is how long can that incentive be maintained, given the political climate?

 

[ck1116]

I totally agree with you! This will benefit both the society and government, and also speed up the EV adaptation progress.

As EVs are coming along faster in HK now, there will be more and more opposition to keep the FRT exemption as it is.

As suggested earlier, an abrupt change from 0% to 100% FRT overnight would totally kill further progress. On the other hand, full exemption cannot be expected to continue forever, despite the history of HK SAR incentives.

Hopefully, the Model X will hit Hong Kong before March 31, 2017. In March 2014, three years out seemed far into the future (see the beginning of this thread). With just over a year to go for the next possible extension, we should start lobbying for a solution that will be digestable to the LegCo majority. Now that we are getting the Formula E to Hong Kong this fall of 2016, cancelling the FRT exemption altogether would be quite embarrassing for Hong Kong.

One suggestion could be to introduce a gradual FRT, starting from April 1st, 2017:

1) The rest of 2017 should continue as FRT exempt

2) Starting January 1st, 2018, the FRT for any EV should be 1% off of what it would have been if not exempt. For every calendar month following, this percentage would increase by 1%

This would mean that by April 1st 2026, EVs would have to pay the same FRT as other cars.

By the time the Model III hits the market, FRT would be 10-20% of full FRT (depends on how the "Tesla Calendar" aligns with the Gregorian calendar!)

View attachment 106354

The reason it is so important with a sliding phasing out is to avoid rushed transactions, followed by a total stall in the EV process. One percent per month is so gradual that it will be enough for people to act faster, yet not so punitive for those not making a specific deadline. The process of changing ICEVs into EVs will be even further accelerated, in a sustainable way, while increasing revenue to HK SAR.

In fact, if the whole purpose of the FRT exemption is to get EVs here as fast as possible, a gradual increase could prove even more effective than a constant total exemption, as it encourages people to switch over this month, rather than at a later stage.

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Eventually, a pollution tax could be added to the FRT of any car into Hong Kong. This would mean that even in 2026, there will be an advantage of choosing an EV over a fossil fuel car. The logic and fairness would be: You pollute, you pay.

Congestion issues is a separate matter, which is being dealt with by the HK SAR at this stage. No matter which vehicle, and how much or little it pollutes, it still takes up space when it's driving. GPS based road tax, with variable rates by location and time, could prove very efficient for Hong Kong. Also, more emphasis on electronic/internet processing of paperwork of all sorts, will reduce the need for people to actually drive somewhere.

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I think this was brought up before, just quoting it in to keep the text.

From LCQ9: Exemption of payment of first registration tax for electric vehicles , see the bottom of this post.