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Hong Kong removes autopilot

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Lerxt, Nov 18, 2015.

  1. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

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    The Hong Kong authorities have forced Tesla Hong Kong to remove the autopilot functionality of v7. This is from the Transport Department that removed the browser as they, with their 1866km of roads, know better than the rest of the world. Unelected officialdom.

    So today Tesla did a software update on the sly, without the need for a confirmation, that turned off the autopilot and greyed out the icons. I expect the Communist government to do stupid things but I'm not particularly impressed with Tesla changing my software without my approval.
     
  2. vitaliy

    vitaliy Member

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    Wow... I'm sorry to hear that.
     
  3. DFiveK2

    DFiveK2 Member

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    If it makes you feel better the communist government where I live - New York State - has banned Tesla expansion, Uber and now Fanduel/Draftkings.

    It really pisses me and a whole lot of other people off.... But they don't care.
     
  4. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    I would be really really pissed off if I had autopilot and the next morning I came out it was greyed out and unavailable due to a "silent push".

    time to sue Tesla to get your money back!
     
  5. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    Before you start suing people keep in mind Tesla apparently did this at the direction of the regulators (like them or not). You would have to take action against the government which is a more difficult if not impossible effort.
     
  6. rcarpen22

    rcarpen22 Member

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    I'm not sure I agree that Tesla has no culpability. It's one thing for the government to tell people they are not allowed to use the functionality. It's another for Tesla to remove the functionality that people paid for. Also, perhaps they should have considered the regulatory climate in certain markets before marketing autopilot. Just trying to be objective. I'm curious, is it just auto-steer that's gone? Or TACC as well? It seems that TACC and auto-dimming, etc. should be enabled. This is why I didn't order autopilot up front. I'm going to wait a bit and enable it later if it survives all this initial scrutiny. I think it's awesome and probably very safe if used as directed. But we are regulated to the least common denominator most of the time:-/
     
  7. Soolim

    Soolim Member

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    Does mainland China allow AP? If AP is not allowed in China, then maybe the classic v6.2 UI would make sense there? I imagine if the HK cars were to cross the border and drive into mainland, then there will be more than 1866km of road?

    Intriguing to know that Tesla can actually force an update on the firmware without driver confirmation! Maybe Tesla is already incrementally fine-tuning the AP capability for the rest of the world?
     
  8. hiroshiy

    hiroshiy Active Member

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    Similar situations in Japan. Tesla still trying to get acceptance from the govt. However Tesla is doing very poor job conforming to local laws as @rcarpen22 mentioned. They had almost a year to negotiate the local govts. Everybody knows AP has some legal issues in some countries. Tesla intentionally ignored that and now pissed off its clients and govts.
     
  9. JonG

    JonG Member

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    i agree.

    Buy something from us that we've no idea whether you can legally use when we eventually get round to delivering.... doesn't really put them in a good light does it.

    but folks, feel free to suggest they ban everyone from ever doing business with them again if they think that's unfair
     
  10. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

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    HK cars don't often cross the border. It's effectively a seperate country and you need mainland number plates to do so. Also HK is right hand drive and China is left. The only thing missing is auto steering.

    It it is disconcerting that Tesla can interfere with my cars software without my permission.
     
  11. Soolim

    Soolim Member

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    Maybe Toyota and Nissan can do a better job on AP, and show the way for Tesla in Japan, including how to comply with the government?:tongue: Maybe government don't like the Beta for the customers? Maybe you have to wait for v7.1? I know, too many conjectures.:biggrin:
     
  12. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    A lot of assumptions are being made in some of the recent posts in this thread.
    Before AP was introduced, Tesla likely researched country laws about semi autonomous driving. Many countries probably do not have a law specifically addressing that issue. I don't know what Hong Kong law is. In some cases the Tesla AP release may have caught the attention of local regulators and then they decided to restrict it. Maybe they will reverse that ruling in the future.
    If governments decide to ban AP after Tesla releases it, you can't blame Tesla for that. TSLA has no choice to comply if they want to keep doing business in that country. Tesla is a very small auto company and cannot ignore regulator rulings. In Japan I'm sure that Toyota has a great deal of influence. In comparison, Tesla will have no influence at all.
     
  13. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    Should Tesla buy back the cars? Or offer a $2,500 refund?

    :hides:
     
  14. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    Neither, TACC by itself is worth $2500 and AP beta isn't ready for prime time IMHO (also ducks).
     
  15. Soolim

    Soolim Member

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    Would you know if Mercedes with AP is allowed in Japan? Would you be happy if Tesla AP is limited in Japan to the same performance as Mercedes?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I speculate that AP v7.1 would meet HK requirement, so it is just a delay not total defeat.
     
  16. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

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    Were there any accidents in HK that may have spurred this? I'm worried about it in the US - what happens when the first death is attributed to autopilot? I know the defense - you're always in control and responsible for your car. That won't stop people from blaming autopilot though, if they were using it and it dives under a truck or off the road. I use it every day, and it scares me every once in a while. Good lane markings, clear weather, and just because the road curves too sharply or I go over a bridge it just changes lanes and starts beeping with the red take-over-immediately. Its "beta". When will in be updated? I continue to be amazed Tesla had the guts to put this out there, and I love using it, but there's no question its dangerous if miss-used. Is there any question people will miss-use it? If not then its only a matter of time before we're reading about the Tesla autopilot accident. Will it then be pulled in the US? Stay tuned...
     
  17. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    Look at trip planner beta.... lol
     
  18. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    Holding Tesla responsible for the actions of every regulator everywhere is wholly inappropriate.

    I would encourage you to spend some time with the electrical code in the United States: a nationally-recognized central body (NFPA) provides the governance and publishing of the National Electric Code. When it does publish the new standards, it expects that the new standard will be adopted in its entirety. However, political climates do exist, and very frequently, state, county, and local boards take issue with certain provisions. They adopt the NEC as part of codified law, but insert their own exceptions and/or re-write certain portions of it.

    For example, Chicago enacted a restriction eliminating article 334 (NM cable / Romex) in its jurisdiction, requiring conduit to be used under the guise of safety (and to the benefit of IBEW / electrician's union). And there are THOUSANDS of these exceptions from states, counties, and cities all over the US.

    Holding Tesla responsible for Hong Kong banning AP is like trying to hold NFPA responsible because you can't use NM/Romex in your Chicago home. Expecting the NFPA to keep track of - and publish - all restrictions of every local regulator is also burdensome. It's bad enough Tesla has been held hostage enough to put restrictions in their software for that specific jurisdiction. I recognize that in Hong Kong they don't have as many political rights as many other countries, but this one is on the regulator and the action needs to be pushed toward them, not Tesla.

    Should Tesla have to appear before every regulatory body in the world prior to releasing a new feature to gain their approval? Or should it work with a "greater majority" stance and only highlight those *known* to cause problems?
     
  19. gavinwang

    gavinwang Member

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    leave communist out of this, mainland China doesn't ban Tesla's autopilot.
     
  20. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    Why would anyone blame Tesla for this? Furthermore why would you be upset that Tesla pushed the feature down without your "approval"? In this case your approval has no bearing, the governmental authority in HK said "take it off" so Tesla had absolutely no choice but to do so. Blame your government, not Tesla.

    Jeff
     

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