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Hong Kong Tesla Model S Charging Standard

Discussion in 'Hong Kong' started by markwj, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    #1 markwj, Mar 11, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2014
    Let's use this thread to discuss the Hong Kong Tesla Model S charging standard.

    As of 29th May 2014, the Tesla Motors HK website has this to say about charging, and this is what we know 100% for certain, so far:

    1. Car side is European style socket (IEC 62196) - for mobile charging, the car is compatible with public charging stations using the IEC 62196 standard connector (charge rates up to 55 kilometers of range per hour of charge are possible depending on the power source)
    2. Cars will be Hong Kong specification (which may or may not differ from European cars)
    3. Charging port is at the rear left hand side of the car
    4. Cars will come standard with an IEC62196 type2 to type2 cable
    5. Cars will come standard with a 40A single phase wall connector included (early units of this wall connector are currently limited to 32A - these will be upgraded to 40A later in the summer of 2014 via minor firmware/hardware upgrade)
    6. Cars ordered with the dual chargers option will be provided with a matching (higher-capacity than 40A single phase) wall connector (for those taking delivery before early 2015, a temporary 40A single phase connector will be provided)
    7. An 80A single phase wall connector is under development and will be available in early 2015
    8. A 32A three phase wall connector is under development and will be available in early 2015
    9. A Tesla offered BS1363 mobile connector is available (Tesla do not recommend this as a primary charging solution due to variations in the quality and reliability of UK type 1363 outlets)

    An unboxing video of the Wall Connector is available:

    Tesla Hong Kong Wall Connector Unboxing - YouTube

    Hong Kong has a selection of:

    1. 13A BS 1363 style sockets in public charging stations (no Tesla support at present)
    2. 32A Blue single-phase sockets (no Tesla support at present)
    3. 16A Red three-phase sockets (no Tesla support at present)
    4. CLP and HKE supposedly starting to deploy IEC62196 stations (an OEM IEC62196 to IEC62196 cable should be able to support this)
    5. Single phase, 220V, power supply
    6. Three phase, 380V (4 wire), power supply
    7. 32A is the highest-rated approved socket in Hong Kong

    Most homes and offices offer between 60A and 200A, single or three phase. The three phase is arranged as a 4 wire supply (3 phases plus neutral) so that 220V (to neutral) can be obtained from each phase.

    Some notes on the single/three phase support in the cars:

    • The IEC62196 plug/socket and cable used supports three phase.
    • It appears that each charger in the car is internally wired up as six sub-chargers, with each pair connected to one phase line. Each sub-charger can handle 8A, resulting in 16A maximum per charger per phase (limited as well by the published 40A maximum per charger).
    • Tesla single phase Wall Connectors are modified to tie all three phase lines together (providing the single phase feed over each of the three lines to the car). That means that with a Tesla single phase 40A wall connector, both single and dual charger equipped vehicles will be able to use the entire 40A.
    • Public single phase IEC62196 charging stations will usually only be wired with one phase line providing power. That means that Tesla cars with single chargers will be able to draw a maximum of 16A from such stations, and dual charger equipped cars will be able to draw a maximum of 32A from such stations.
    • Public three phase IEC62916 charging stations will be able to be fully supported by the Tesla Model S (up to 40A total for single charger, and 80A total for dual chargers).
     
  2. AppleFan

    AppleFan Member

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    Hi Mark,

    Thanks so much for your help in answering new Tesla owners' questions and promoting EVs generally in Hong Kong.

    I have two questions/observations:
    1. What did Tesla do with the Roadster? Is there any reason to think Tesla would do anything different with the Model S?

    2. When I met Linda ~10 days ago, I showed her a photo of the socket I have in my home car park. It's a Clipsal 250V 13amp BS1363. She said it's what the showroom red Model S was being plugged into at the moment so it would be sufficient and work fine. When I asked if what a 32A supply would do/look like, she went inside and wanted to show me a BLUE plug. She couldn't find it but I distinctly remember her saying it would be blue. Is that different from what you said (since the blue socket on your list is 16A and the 32A is red)?

    AppleFan
     
  3. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    #3 markwj, Mar 11, 2014
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
    Glad to help wherever possible.

    The roadster uses single phase 110V-240V, up to 70A. It has a proprietary connector, and no DC quickcharging capability.

    Roadsters in Hong Kong were provided with a BS 1363 (UK style three square pin, 220V 13A) mobile charger. Tesla also offered (as optional extras) the HPC (wall mount, fixed installation, 220V 70A), as well as a UMC mobile charger with a selection of connectors (including blue).

    The Model S in Hong Kong will use a European style socket. The socket itself can do single or three phase, as well as DC quickcharging, but it has not been announced whether the Hong Kong version of this will support three phase.

    Time has moved on, charging standards have evolved, and the options and adaptors that Tesla now have are different than what they had for the roadster.

    Sorry, I had inadvertently swapped the red and blue amperages. I've fixed it now, and hopefully it is correct. My understanding is that the blue is single phase 32A, and the red is three phase 16A.
     
  4. shiadawg

    shiadawg Member

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    Hi. So I am dealing with EV Power and trying to figure out how to install a charger into my apt building. Not an easy process. For now, we're exploring how to get the whole building set up. It's a interesting process that I hope we can figure out before the car arrives! We're a 2 phase apartment and one of the options is to install a 20A or a 32A charging unit connected to the general power with a separate meter. EVP told me not to use 13A as over time that socket will get too hot and melt. Of course the cost of a 20A and 32A charger range from 15-20K ish. From what I can tell, a 13A would take over 24 hours to charge from 0-100% for the model S whereas the 32A can charge in 8 hours (20A is apparently 14 hours). EVP did not talk about the different colors. Tesla are the ones who sent me to EVP so I trust what they say. I hope this trust is not misguided... Any one have any views?
     
  5. AppleFan

    AppleFan Member

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    I'll let others more knowledgeable answer the specific questions. But generally speaking, I wouldn't trust EVP at the moment. As others have pointed out, even Tesla itself hasn't decided on the precise specifications, so how would EVP know?

    Also, I agree with Tesla that it's very misleading to think about charging from 0 to 100%. How often, if at all, would you drive 390km or 502km every day? Think about how much you will use per day, and calculate the number of hours to "refill" how much you've used up. For me, even if I were to drive every day (which I won't), ~10 hours would be sufficient to refill, so I imagine myself just plugging in at night when I get home and the car would be filled up by morning.

    AppleFan
     
  6. Vmax

    Vmax Member

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    Believe 32amp 3-phase is ~380V
     
  7. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

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    It is interesting to note that according the the Euro chart I posted the other day, a 3 phase 16A socket (red plug) and the single phase HPWC charge at the same rate. 11kw/h ( 50 km/hr ) I think.
     
  8. Vmax

    Vmax Member

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    I'm quite surprised, that we are getting told now "not to use 13A as over time that socket will get too hot and melt" (shiadawg's post).
    Didn't all the marketing tell us it can be charged from a common household socket?!

    All the confusion about how to charge, what socket, what plug, what charger, what power Model S can accept will be a big deterrent for "normal" buyers to buy a Tesla or any EV. Unlike us, not everyone is willing to go through all this hassle in their believe of Tesla and EVs.

    We have to get our charging solution at home and/or work in place well before our cars arrive. As closer we get to the delivery as busier all the contractors will get to install sockets for us.
     
  9. lx3h

    lx3h Charged.hk TSLA Grp Rep

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  10. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    I was also curious about this. In USA, the electrical codes are set up for intermittent use. Therefore, a "30A socket" is only acceptable for things like electric clothes dryers that do not run for more than about 2 hours. Any "Continuous Load" like an EV must be de-rated to 80% of the intermittent load rating. This applies to sockets, in-wall wire sizing and circuit breakers, all equally. So, in USA the Model S comes with the Mobile Connector that can deliver 40A. To get that current delivered to the car, the socket must be 50A (NEMA 14-50 or NEMA 6-50) and the circuit breaker in the electrical panel must be 50A.

    So, the fundamental question is: Do the electrical codes in HK size everything for continuous use at the rated value, or is there de-rating like USA? If it is rated for continuous, then any socket that has CE mark or other appropriate regulatory approval should not melt if used by an EV at the full rating. Only shoddy knock-off product or product rated at a lower current like 10A would melt when used at 13A.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Those are in-line cord connectors. I think this wall-mount one is better for a car park installation. 380V is the correct spec for 3 phase. 380V is measured phase to phase while phase to neutral is 220V.
    http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a220o.1000855.0.0.wV8t58&id=18953693177&rn=438d7bf8485b1e2df9d706b1d526beff&acm=03054.1003.1.54951&uuid=ib1zBcTb&abtest=_AB-LR32-PR32&scm=1003.1.03054.ITEM_18953693177_54951&pos=6
     
  11. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    My understanding is that Hong Kong is rated for continuous load.

    A normal household/office 220V 13A socket is wired through a ring main to a 30A/32A circuit breaker. Two sets of 3-core-cables from the breaker to the socket and back to the breaker (forming a ring). For household use, it is legal and normal to put many such sockets on such a ring main. In theory, if there are 3 single sockets and all are run at full capacity, the breaker could be overloaded and trip.

    The EMSD (Government dept responsible for this), has put out the following technical guidelines on charging facilities for EVs:

    http://www.emsd.gov.hk/emsd/e_download/pps/pub/Charging_Facilities_Electric_Vehicles.pdf

    You can see that for mode 1 they require 'Each final circuit of EV charging facility shall be installed as a separate radial circuit of the fixed electrical installation' and a 16A rating. So, they are requiring dedicated RCD breakers, 16A protection and cabling, and NO ring main.

    The issue, that I see, is that public charging stations using mode 1 and a BS1363 socket most definitely follow those requirements. But, a home garage any-old-socket-on-the-wall most probably doesn't. The problem is not the socket, it is the wiring behind that socket.
     
  12. AppleFan

    AppleFan Member

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    Incidentally, I have a "basic" question that I haven't seen answered.
    For LHD, the charge port is on the driver's, i.e. left hand side. What happens with RHD? Does the charge port stay on the left or does it move over to the driver's side, i.e. the right hand side?

    AppleFan
     
  13. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

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    Ive read that it is still on the left.
     
  14. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    Left hand side, I have been told. I'll update the first post.
     
  15. AppleFan

    AppleFan Member

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    Just got an e-mail overnight from Linda asking for a chat to "provide some new developments that have occurred since then regarding our charging strategy". Anyone know what it's about? Given the time difference with the Bay Area, it might be a while before I would be able to connect with her.
     
  16. Vmax

    Vmax Member

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    AppleFan, please tell Linda we want it all (charging options), we want it now :)
     
  17. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    Your linked MK receptacle for the Blue socket appears to be the correct one.
    This should be the correct IEC 60309 Red 3-phase socket, from the same site:
    MK Commando Interlocked Angled Socket 16A 380-415V (IP44)
    This is "3P+E+N" which is three live Phase wires plus Earth plus Neutral. Mennekes also has a very good web site showing all the configurations of receptacles.
    www.mennekes.de/en/home.html for English or www.mennekes.cn/home.html for Chinese.

    I am guessing these are the "correct" high power sockets for HK are based on four assumptions.
    1. HK uses the same industrial IEC connectors as Europe.
    2. The cars will use the same charging system and Mobile Connector as UK cars that are well defined on the Tesla web site. www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/charging#/outlet
    3. You want a socket to plug in the Mobile Connector supplied with the car, not a third party charging station.
    4. You want to charge faster than the 12km/hr that a 13A residential socket will give you.

    One other point that has not been made absolutely clear here is that the Mobile Connector that comes with the car will not exceed the capability of a "Single Charger" in the car. In order to take advantage of the "Dual Charger" configuration in the car, you have to use a Tesla High Power Wall Connector (HPWC - when those are made available for cars with Type 2 inlet) or a third party "Semi-Fast" charging station. I've only seen the "Semi-Fast" terminology used in reference to HK charging stations in order to differentiate them from standard AC charging stations 7kW and below and the DC Fast Charge stations (CHAdeMO). In EU, the new public "Fast Chargers" provide three different services "Fast AC", "DC Combo", "CHAdeMO". Fast AC over there may be 22kW (32A 3ph) or 43kW (63A 3ph) depending on location.

    According to this Charging Sheet for EU customers, the Blue single phase adapter is included with the car in some countries (Norway, France, Spain, UK) while other countries get the Red 3-ph adapter included. This is probably dependent on the dominant residential electrical service in each country.
     
  18. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

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    #19 Lerxt, Mar 15, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
    Interesting that Tesla is contacting people one by one but not just putting out as much info as possible to all.
     
  19. arg

    arg Member

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    This much is certainly true.
    One thing that isn't at all apparent from Tesla's marketing materials is that single chargers give very poor performance when used with Single phase type2 charging stations (public or private). This has been reported by owners particularly in Norway, and can be confirmed by fiddling with the 'calculator' on the Telsa webpage you quote above (though you have to do maths on the hours taken and the total charge delivered to work out the charging rate).

    The reason for this (informed speculation by TMC posters) is that the car actually has three single-phase chargers, with one charger wired to each phase (ie. one charger per pin for the 3 phase pins on the type2 connector). So if you plug in to a standard charging station that has a type2 connector wired for single-phase, only one third of the chargers in the car are actually connected to anything - limiting the charge current to 16A (3.7kW) single charger, 32A (7.3kW) dual charger.

    The problem doesn't apply when using the Tesla Mobile Connector with the blue single-phase plug, as the internal wiring of the UMC connects together the three pins on the type 2 connector and so supplies the same input to all 3 chargers.

    This problem is no big deal in many parts of europe, where a supply over 3kW is highly likely to be 3-phase anyhow, but it is a significant issue in the UK where single phase 32A charging stations are relatively common, both as public charging points and the equipment being installed under the government subsidy for home charging stations. Sounds like it may be a significant issue in Hong Kong too, given the similarities in electrical wiring practice.

    Of course, we don't have our cars yet and it's just possible that Tesla will change the spec before delivery - though the calculator on the webpage suggests not. Fortunately for me, I had already ordered twin chargers before I discovered this wrinkle....
     

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