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Hoping to install L2 EVSEs that require payment

Discussion in 'North America' started by abasile, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. abasile

    abasile Working on EVBuySell

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    Our church is considering installing a couple of Level 2 (240V) J-1772 EVSEs and making them available to the public. Due to the potential for abuse of "free" charging, however, the consensus unfortunately seems to be that we need to accept payment for charging. The challenge here is that network-connected EVSEs tend to be far more expensive to install than typical "dumb" EVSEs. At the same time, we don't want anyone to have to manually "babysit" the EVSEs and respond to every request to plug in.

    ChargePoint has the largest network and a turnkey solution, but just a single networked EVSE appears to be about $4000 plus installation, a dual headed unit is at least $6000, and I believe that ChargePoint may take a substantial cut of the user fees.

    ClipperCreek sells a single EVSE for $2650 with the Liberty plugin, basically a keypad that can activate the EVSE in coordination with the MobileNow! app or Parkmobile app. They don't sell a dual headed version. Two units would be a little cheaper than ChargePoint, and the network fees might be lower, but this wouldn't be quite as user friendly.

    I have an inquiry in to Greenlots and am waiting to hear what their pricing is like.

    The upcoming eMotorWerks JuiceStation (JuiceStation: Open Payment EV Charging Station) looks interesting and I'm waiting on a pricing inquiry.

    Does anyone have any other suggestions? Given that non-networked EVSEs (like the Tesla "Wall Connector") are only about $500 each, it just seems that EVSEs with payment solutions are way more expensive than they need to be.

    Thank you!
     
  2. KJD

    KJD Supporting Member

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  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    How about incorporating a one hour charging limit per activation, but keep it free ?
     
  4. abasile

    abasile Working on EVBuySell

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    Keeping it free, with a sign requesting donations, was what I initially suggested. Networked EVSEs tend to be so expensive.

    I like your suggestion, and it'd be worth investigating whether any non-networked EVSEs support a timer that can stop charging after a pre-set interval. Ideally, there'd be a simple way for this to be overridden (perhaps with a key) for authorized users - the senior pastor would love to have an EV once long-range EVs with AWD become affordable (thinking used Model 3).

    As far as point-of-sale EVSEs go, I like what I see of WattZilla DUO. Including a Nayax credit card reader and the WattZilla integration kit, it looks like the total hardware cost of the station (not including breakers, conduit, or wiring) would be no more than about $4500. Especially considering that it would support up to 80 amps per plug, it seems to be a significantly better option than ChargePoint.
     
  5. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    Or just incorporate the timer into the electric supply. "Press this button for one hour of juice."
     
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  6. Spectre

    Spectre Member

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    I've only used networked units but Semaconnect, emotoworks and Aero have local authentication models. Usually described as multi unit dwell. Simple passcode via bluetooth.
     
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  7. ccdisce

    ccdisce Member

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    I would suggest inviting in ChargePoint to come in and set up a couple of stations on their network.
    You would have to work out the details like who is going to pay for the station, who is going to pay for the electricity used, who is going to pay for maintenance of the stations best place to site the stalls etc. who knows it may bring you a number of parishoners .

    You could also approach your local electricity provider to see if they have something similar.

    Tesla will make 2 of their Wall Connectors available for Destination Charging and for FREE under specific conditions.
    You may want to check with Tesla.
    The e-mail address for this branch of Tesla is available at the end of their Destination Charging treatise.
    The Wall Connectors provided will probably have the Tesla specific plug end that goes into their cars so the 'mysterious someone' will have to provide adapters and who will pay for the adapters that get misplaced over time.
    The EU Teslas charge port uses a different connector to the one used by the US Teslas and may be close enough or exactly J-1772 so that you can cater to non Tesla cars that use the J-1772 charging standard. I do not know if you can get this type of Wall Connector in the US.

    Good Luck.
     
  8. pox

    pox Member

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    Let me know if you want to find out more about the WattZilla hardware with the a credit card option. It works like a car wash, you swipe or insert you card and then press end when done. This is a small monthly fee and merchant processing. I also took out a general liability insurance to cover all our charging locations. If your interested I might be able help cover some of the install and equipment costs and take the liability in return for payback on the hourly charge fee.
     
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  9. brkaus

    brkaus Active Member

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    What is your goal for these chargers? Who are you expecting to use them? What fees are you planning on charging? How many EVs are in the area? Do most have home charging available?

    I'm guessing you won't get much use of pay per use charging stations. My observation is that the majority only bother to plug in when something is free, or if they have a low range EV that needs to plug in to get home.
     
  10. gfb107

    gfb107 Member

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    Be aware that in many jurisdictions it is illegal to sell electricity unless you are a designated electric utility or retail electric provider.

    In those jurisdictions it is OK to charge for time in the parking space and give away the electricity, but it is not OK to charge for the electricity.
     
  11. abasile

    abasile Working on EVBuySell

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    Thanks, that's interesting to know. I'm not sure this would work for public use, though, unless we have a way of handing out Bluetooth passwords. That might be too much trouble; I don't know.

    We've considered that, but ChargePoint seems to be quite expensive, so we're examining other options.

    While I'm not aware that SCE (Southern California Edison) has such a program, it wouldn't hurt to check. Thanks.

    Yes, this is something we should check into. If church leadership proves willing to approve a "free charging with recommended donation" model, possibly with a simple timer as suggested by SageBrush, then it might work to accept Wall Connectors from Tesla. I think we'd still want to install at least one J-1772 station, though, as I wouldn't feel right about exclusively relying on "donated" Tesla hardware to charge non-Tesla cars unless Tesla indicates that they wouldn't mind. While Tesla desires to promote EV adoption in general, I'd want to respect their desire to promote their own vehicles in particular. (Still, for maximum flexibility, it'd be good to have on hand a Tesla adapter for J-1772 cars.)

    Valid point, but thankfully not a problem here in California.

    One thing that differentiates our church (and its connected preschool / primary school) is that we are located within Southern California's primary mountain resort area, over a mile in elevation above many millions of SoCal residents within an hour or two of driving distance. We're within walking distance of a number of public amenities. In spite of the relatively large number of EV and plug-in hybrid drivers that visit our mountain range, there is not much formal charging infrastructure up here. Serving mountain visitors, including those coming to our church and school for weddings, funerals, and special school events, is a key desire.

    While we don't anticipate many parishioners or parents needing to charge at the church/school, there may be occasional needs during inclement weather or partial power outages affecting local neighborhoods. More importantly, it's truly a workplace, with pastors, teachers, and other staff members, and there is a desire to foster EV adoption. (Anyone have an older Tesla and want to receive a tax deduction for donating it to a pastor who drives 30K miles per year, diligently serving the community and the church? :))

    The goal of charging money or requesting donations would simply be to defray the cost of the electricity (probably around $0.20/kWh or a bit more). There's also a desire to install solar PV at the church, but that may take longer to come to fruition.

    Thank you for all of the input!
     
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  12. brkaus

    brkaus Active Member

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    I believe as part of the destination program, Tesla will also provide a J1772 station if requested. I do believe they have some terms in their contract about collecting money. They do allow restriction to customers only.

    That makes sense.
     
  13. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    Quite the progressive church you got there ... so long as the church benefits, or at least pays nothing.
     
  14. abasile

    abasile Working on EVBuySell

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    LOL. It's not a deep-pocketed organization, and we try to do the most we can with the resources we're given. I'm sure it'll end up costing the church something. Not everyone in leadership is necessarily a big fan of EVs and our membership has diverse political views. So the goal is to do what we reasonably can to have a broad base of support for charging stations.
     
  15. dgpcolorado

    dgpcolorado high altitude member

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    #15 dgpcolorado, Sep 30, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
    I favor your donation idea — not only is the equipment cheaper to buy and maintain you don't have to fuss with card readers, billing, or any of that. I hope that your board can get onboard with that. A paid charge station isn't going to be used much unless someone is really in need and that figures to be relatively uncommon.

    Many years ago my library switched to a donation box for the used book shelves, rather than pricing the books individually. Some people pay nothing when they take a used book and some pay a lot. Overall we make much more money from the donation box next to the used book shelves than we would if we tried to sell priced books and it is a lot easier to manage. I think a donation box (secured, perhaps a slot in the building or a steel pedestal like BLM uses at campgrounds) might generate more revenue for the church than going with an expensive pay-for-use charge station. I think that it is unlikely to be enough to pay for the charge station itself — although you have a better feel for EV tourist traffic in your area — but I'd be surprised if donations didn't cover the electricity. List a pay-type charge station on Plugshare and only those desperate for a charge would use it, in my view. Flatlanders coming up the hill in an EV for a wedding or a funeral would seem especially likely to kick-in a donation.

    Just my 2¢...
     
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  16. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

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    Agreed. I could see myself dropping in a $20 for an hour two of charging. And more if I’d been drinking...
     
  17. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    I've never seen these in the wild so I have no experience w/them, but there is Home - Tellus Power. I've seen their equipment at their booth at CES for at least 2 years and spoken to the folks there.

    For L2, my work only has Chargepoint's networked EVSEs (e.g. CT4000 series and before, CT2xxx series) + some Tesla HPWCs.
     
  18. NCAviator

    NCAviator Member

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    Does the WattZilla have any mobile APP support that allows customers to find them or know if they are vacant like ChargePoint?
     
  19. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    Yep. This is very simple. Do your church a favor and buy a good reliable charging station like the clipper creek or even a Tesla HPWC with a J1772 cord swap. Get a locked metal donation box, list it on plugshare and watch the cash roll in. Yes there will be the freeloaders, but overall the church will make a little bit of money.

    Or, buy an unreliable credit card station that will always have problems, be down, and be used very little. Oh and they charge at a whopping 6-7kw(when they work).
     
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  20. Lloyd

    Lloyd Well-Known Member

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    Check Eaton, they have a credit card swipe that works well. $10 / month in fees for the card processing.

    Electric Vehicle Solutions
     

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