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Hotel Superchargers?

Discussion in 'North America' started by eco5280, Feb 21, 2015.

  1. eco5280

    eco5280 Member

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    So - is a non-guest of the hotel permitted to charge for 30 min at a Supercharger? I see that they've added hotel superchargers as smaller dots on the official map. Has anyone tried using them without being a guest?
     
  2. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Not superchargers. Those are HPWCs. Different hotels have different policies - but I'd at least go in and have a coffee or something.
     
  3. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    #3 ChadS, Feb 21, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015
    Many say "for hotel guest use only". I understand why this is as they are free to use (a Tesla condition); they are meant as an amenity for guests, not a giveaway to the general public - Tesla provides the EVSEs, but the hotel provides the space and electricity. I think the hotel usually pays for installation as well. But they are probably mostly sitting idle, and I don't see why they wouldn't be happy to have somebody come by and use it during the day if they eat at the restaurant or offer to pay $10 or something. Everybody wins.

    But you should call and make sure - I called one place (in Vermont, I think) and offered to have lunch for two at their extremely expensive restaurant, or pay a small fee, but they were absolutely unwilling to consider letting me use the charger unless I was an overnight guest. I don't think that makes any sense (I still made my trip; the only difference was they lost a customer), but EVs are new to many and they haven't all thought through their policies. They often don't even understand what the costs are - I've had to explain average electricity costs for a charge to several confused hotel and restaurant owners/workers.
     
  4. eco5280

    eco5280 Member

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    Are you sure? For instance, one I found says this:
     
  5. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    #5 ChadS, Feb 21, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015
    Yup. Those are 208 to 240V AC EVSEs, usually around 80A. Tesla calls them HPWCs (High Powered Wall Connector) and they are the same thing you can buy with the car and install in your garage. They will charge your car at up to 20kW if you have twin chargers installed; you are limited to 10kW if you have a single charger in your car.
     
  6. johnnyS

    johnnyS Member

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    In addition to the smaller dots, there are actual supercharger installations at hotels. The Flagstaff AZ, Gallup NM, and Moab Utah superchargers are at hotel/motels. When actual superchargers are located at motel/hotels, we do not have to ask for permission to use them.
     
  7. GreenT

    GreenT Member

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    You'll also find that these (HPWC) chargers are sometimes (in)conveniently located within Valet areas in basements.
     
  8. eco5280

    eco5280 Member

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    Thanks for the information! Very useful now that I'm starting to plan road trips with the family.
    Forgive me - but at 10kW how many miles/hr is that?
     
  9. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX

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    10 kW adds about 28 Rated miles of range per hour of charge.
     
  10. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    For future reference, Superchargers deliver ~330A at battery voltage. If you see a quote of 40 Amps or 80 Amps, you know it is AC charging (a big power cord to connect to the car's onboard charger, as opposed to an offboard charger that feed DC power directly to the battery.)

    The usual rule of thumb around here seems to be 3 miles per kilowatt hour - so 10 kW charging would be about 30 miles of range per charging hour - the maximum a single charger car can handle. With dual chargers, you can do 20 kW on most HPWCs, which would be 60 miles of range per hour.
    Walter
     
  11. eco5280

    eco5280 Member

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    Got it and all makes sense. Got confused by the "Tesla Connector" part but now it's all obvious and I'm foolish for not realizing. Thanks for setting me straight.
     
  12. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    And they're also marked with the larger charging icon, rather than the smaller ones. The legend on the page clarifies that the large icon means 'supercharger'.
     
  13. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    To be a nitpicker:

    If you're lucky, you find 240v at 40A, or 9.6kW.
    Commercial locations in the US typically have 3-phase power, which means you get 208v at 40A, or 8.3kW.
    Most charging locations other than HPWCs max out at 30A, so at a commercial location with 208v, you're looking at 6.25kW.

    These differences are relatively unimportant if you're staying overnight at a hotel, but if you're waiting for a charge before moving on, it matters. It also makes you appreciate getting 90kW from a SuperCharger.
     
  14. paulkva

    paulkva Member

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    Also keep in mind that some hotels themselves are confused about HPWC vs Supercharger. I know at least one destination charging property in central VA listed their HPWC as a "supercharger." (Not sure if they've corrected it yet.) When in doubt, consult Tesla's map or supercharge.info. PlugShare is likely to be accurate as well.
     
  15. SilverL

    SilverL Member

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    A painfully true statement. My office installed a charger at my prodding and it shows 198v @ 30A for a pathetic 18mph charge rate.
    The only advantage of charging at work is the idle time I have while at the office, so I don't care how slow the rate is.
     
  16. tbleakne

    tbleakne Member

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    #16 tbleakne, Mar 3, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
    Tesla Destination Charging

    Bloomberg has a nice report on Tesla's Destination Charging deployments of HPWC at hotels:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-03/tesla-roadtrippers-juice-up-from-yosemite-to-jackson-hole-cars

    I have stayed at 3 hotels and 2 Bed&Breakfasts that had HPWC installed. Most were 80A, some less. The B&Bs were 240V, the hotels 208V.
    I have also charged at the SC located at hotels in Flagstaff, Gallup, and Farmington.

    To take advantage of more than 40A on the HPWC you need the dual charger option in your MS. This was helpful in one case where I arrived at the hotel early in the afternoon nearly empty, and wanted to drive some distance to a particular restaurant before returning for the night. Most of the time 40A, even at 208V, is plenty to fill up your car while you sleep.

    The report says that Tesla will soon add the public HPWC locations to the car's navigation screen, which will be great. Right now you can fine the map of these locations on the Tesla web site at:

    http://teslamotors.com/findus

    The small pins are the HPWC. Quite a few more pins have appeared on this map in just the last few months.
     
  17. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX

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    Yes, that's a well-researched and well-written piece. They interviewed the right owner: TMC's Vger is one of the most fearless Tesla road-trippers around.
     
  18. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    That's why I installed 2-100 amp J1772 chargers (delivering 80 amps) at my company's office. I get around 205 volts at the car, so that works out to 16.4 kW.
     
  19. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

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    This adds nicely to the discussion about mini-superchargers and the fact that dual chargers are now a SC-installed accessory...
    Tesla is helping to get more 80A chargers installed, but many of those are 200-208V and still only get you 16kW. Better than the oh-so-common 208V/20A "L2" chargers that can't refuel an 85 over night, but still... and of course the customer needs to have dual chargers which are uncommon already and will be even less common in the future.
    Maybe Tesla's next step will be to offer a successor to the HPWC that is built from 3 chargers and offers 33kW charging. It seems that 208V/200A is an easily available commercial service drop, as is 480V/100A. My guess is that Tesla could offer a compact 33kW DC charger for about $5k for commercial installation...
     
  20. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    This is a perfect application of a boost transformer that only needs a rating of the boosted Voltage times the current. A 3kVA (32V*80A=2.6kVA) boost transformer in single unit quantity costs less than $500, ACME ELECTRIC Buck Boost Trans, 120/240, 16/32, 3kVA - G3088206.

    It does not come for free, however. Because you want 80 Amps at 240 Volts out, it requires 92 Amps at 208 Volts in with a 125A breaker on the 208 Volt side. I believe the NEC understands this and only requires a breaker on the 208V side. In addition to the cost of the transformer, there is additional installation cost for the connection, and you need room for the transformer.

    Maybe we need to put together an application note for this. OTOH, it only gets you a 15% (240/208-1)*100 improvement in charge rate. Is 15% improvement in charge speed worth $500-$1,000 extra in install costs?
     

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