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How about timeouts for constantly disruptive folks?
- Thread starter scottf200
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That is probably not a bad analogy.
The question, then, I believe becomes similar to anything where "old timers" are overrun by newcomers. To what extent is it reasonable to expect the former or the latter adapt to the new reality and how - and to what extent they are doing that or not doing that.
It is a hard question. See e.g. immigration debate.
In another car forum I'm in, we have a "Back Room" which is hidden unless you're a member and it's invite only. It's very easy to get booted if you get out of line, too. It's mainly filled with members who have been with the community for 5+ years and newer members that are proven to be valuable and respectable. Since this forum is relatively new, maybe this could be something based on reputation points?
Additionally, maybe there could be something done for the paid members of this site. Yeah, it gets rid of the ads and stuff, but what else? A little badge next to your name? A "Members Only" lounge?
Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
Yes I know. I contacted a Moderator on Twitter asking to intervene on TMC since I didn't receive an answer by TMC on the matter of my state of Moderation. That's why I am under moderation for life.
Sorry to say it Doug but IMO the restriction that has been given to me is too much big. I considered the Moderator that I contacted on Twitter a friend. I also sent him (and other TMC Members) wishes almost every day on Twitter. Didn't imagine that he thought that I was bothering him. Wouldn't it have been better from the side of the Moderator to say "please don't bother me" rather than reporting to TMC that I was bothering him?
Once again the warning has always to be given to the TMC Member IMO. We are on Internet and we have different cultures. Think that my Italian culture is completely different with respect to the culture of people living in Anglo-American Countries. Don't want to say that my culture is better than yours or the other way round, but we are different. Under these circumstances best thing IMO is to give warnings. Maybe that one thing that is normal for my culture is bad for your culture. That's why IMO the warning has a big importance just to implement a buffer between different cultures and help to improve the exchange of ideas.
hockeythug
Active Member
Canuck
Well-Known Member
You've posted a bit of a "catch 22" by recommending a backroom but at the same time saying these backrooms are kept hidden from everyone else. Years ago, on another forum, I got an invite and it was amazing to me what went on and how well it was hidden and kept secret. So how do we know one does not exist here? If it does, only the invited members know about it and none of them would post about it.
What would be the goal of the backroom? For some inner circle to be able to protect some specific way of conversation or a culture? Sort of a reservation?
This is, overall, really an interesting topic. Given any community, newcomers always come with the benefit but also the risk of change. Old-timers may make it hard for newcomers to fit in - and newcomers may make it hard for old-timers to continue whatever they previously valued.
On one end the answer for the latter is to close the borders, build something that shuts the former out - or at least control the borders in a way that allows the old-timers to include only such newcomers that are in-line with the interests they are protecting. On the other end of the spectrum, newcomers are welcomed freely and their effect to the culture is uncontrolled. Change is not lamented, it is embraced and can lead to the destruction of many a thing that the community used to find valuable.
Personally, as a life philosophy, I probably dislike both ends of this spectrum. I would choose some path in-between.
That said, as a relative newcomer on TMC, I have not always found it easy to bring in new perspectives. I would say, I have felt pressure to succumb to existing perspectives, which would have been an easier road to take. My first post, which was very Tesla positive, made me feel very welcome. I still have those same sentiments, btw. Continuing on such a hyperbolically positive vein, hyping the things that are popular, keeping things light and avoiding the things that are not well-liked, would certainly have made for an easier time. I doubt it would have been in the benefit of TMC overall, though, but it would have made fitting in easier.
This is, overall, really an interesting topic. Given any community, newcomers always come with the benefit but also the risk of change. Old-timers may make it hard for newcomers to fit in - and newcomers may make it hard for old-timers to continue whatever they previously valued.
On one end the answer for the latter is to close the borders, build something that shuts the former out - or at least control the borders in a way that allows the old-timers to include only such newcomers that are in-line with the interests they are protecting. On the other end of the spectrum, newcomers are welcomed freely and their effect to the culture is uncontrolled. Change is not lamented, it is embraced and can lead to the destruction of many a thing that the community used to find valuable.
Personally, as a life philosophy, I probably dislike both ends of this spectrum. I would choose some path in-between.
That said, as a relative newcomer on TMC, I have not always found it easy to bring in new perspectives. I would say, I have felt pressure to succumb to existing perspectives, which would have been an easier road to take. My first post, which was very Tesla positive, made me feel very welcome. I still have those same sentiments, btw. Continuing on such a hyperbolically positive vein, hyping the things that are popular, keeping things light and avoiding the things that are not well-liked, would certainly have made for an easier time. I doubt it would have been in the benefit of TMC overall, though, but it would have made fitting in easier.
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
I still want the ban a thread button. Its not that hard to do and it would definitely lower my blood pressure!
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
My suspicion is that things will continue along the same track, proportional to the number of vehicles Tesla delivers with each passing month.
In other words, it's going to get 2x worse with Model X, as Tesla transitions from run rates of ~50k units/year to ~100k units/year, and possibly an entire order of magnitude worse with Model 3 and 500k units/year.
With growing sales and recognition will come hoards of new members in the market for a Model 3, and many more new investors as TSLA becomes a less risky investment. Anticipation of Model 3, possible delays, and inevitable miscommunication from Tesla is going to cause friction here on the forums. If service centers and Supercharger stations become overwhelmed, that will add a lot more drama. Also, where there's lots of money at stake, tempers will run high. If, as Elon predicted, TSLA is on its way to a market cap at AAPL level (600-700B USD), people buying in NOW still have the potential for an insane 20-bagger ROI. Swings in share price, shenanigans from the media, and accusations of "shorts" trolling the forum are going put people on edge.
tldr; Apocalypse: A mass influx of new membership from Model 3 and investors will make the forum unmanageable.
The only solution I think really comes down to today's membership collectively deciding to turn down the heat in order to preserve the generally polite culture here. If most new members observe that the forum is a decent place, I believe they will adopt that cultural norm. The alternative is to accept that TMC will become a much rougher "town", and be prepared to fight all the time. I'd prefer the former, but if people want to fight, so be it. I won't start a fight, but I sure won't back down if someone wants to pick one.
Kind of seems like "blame the victim" to me.
I keep trying to find a way for Tesla to be "in the right" on the P85D but I'm having trouble succeeding in that endeavor.
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Don't judge a book by its reputation. Some of the most interesting people I've met on TMC have fewer posts than some of us have reputation bars.
One problematic issue is that keeping it polite is not the only disagreement. There may be significant disagreement on what kind of topics and conversations are polite in the first place.
The idea of private or restricted forums has come up a few times. There are pros and cons, and when I've considered it in the past, on balance I decided against the idea. That could change. Truth is you can already make your own private section with the Groups feature. It's kinda forums light, but you can make it private or publicly viewable, can require members be approved etc. We're be making some changes to the site in the coming months that should be an overall improvement so stay tuned.
To the point of this thread, I agree that constantly disruptive folks need a time out. We have very simple rules of politeness which used to be just understood as basic etiquette. Then a couple years ago we had to actually write them out since offenders demanded "show me what rule I broke!" We've been using the snippiness thread as a gentle reminder to be polite, and most seem to get the message. There are however several repeat offenders that do seem to be dragging the whole tone down, and we all kinda need a break. They need a break so they can calm down and re-evaluate what is appropriate communication, and mods get a break from having to deal with them given how time consuming this already is.
So regarding how to deal with new people coming in. We really need existing folks to set the right tone and encourage proper etiquette. It's ok to disagree, but do so politely. Excessive snark or condescension is getting old. It's ok to have a contrarian opinion on something, but there's no need for it to be repeated ad infinitum. Say your peace and move on.
There are many places on the internet to act like a jerk. We ask that folks not make TMC one of them.
To the point of this thread, I agree that constantly disruptive folks need a time out. We have very simple rules of politeness which used to be just understood as basic etiquette. Then a couple years ago we had to actually write them out since offenders demanded "show me what rule I broke!" We've been using the snippiness thread as a gentle reminder to be polite, and most seem to get the message. There are however several repeat offenders that do seem to be dragging the whole tone down, and we all kinda need a break. They need a break so they can calm down and re-evaluate what is appropriate communication, and mods get a break from having to deal with them given how time consuming this already is.
So regarding how to deal with new people coming in. We really need existing folks to set the right tone and encourage proper etiquette. It's ok to disagree, but do so politely. Excessive snark or condescension is getting old. It's ok to have a contrarian opinion on something, but there's no need for it to be repeated ad infinitum. Say your peace and move on.
There are many places on the internet to act like a jerk. We ask that folks not make TMC one of them.
bollar
Disgruntled Member
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
Ok, I'm in.
I will do my best to turn down the heat and set a good example. TMC is too valuable a resource to let everything fall apart.
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