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How Bad are KSI Charging Stations (Ontario)?

ytwytw

Member
Oct 2, 2017
410
219
Canada
Past 2 weeks I did some long trips to south and north

Got some chances to try the CHAdeMO at Tim Horton and Scotia Bank

It's terrible

I mean, why ON Gov pick such a horrible company to roll out those chargers province wide.

They are SLOW
~30kwh near Niagara fall area,
~25kwh north of barrie
they say capable for 50kwh (I charge at IKEA i get 48kwh)
FAKE NEWS, FALSE Advertisement

They are EXPENSIVE
0.20/min is fine, but the screen do not show you the connection fee (~$2 or $2.50)
30min after, charging stopped, another $2 connection fee
DAMN, not mentioned on the screen

They are UNRELIABLE
I tried about 10 stations overall, only 2 works flawlessly
the rest is either 1) CHAdeMO plug is faulty 2) cannot communicate with the server
EVEN Im willing to pay, it cannot initiate a charge

Oh, customer service?
The agent sounds disappointment and hopeless and contribute a negative attitude to your cold day.

The app?
myEVroute crash easily on my Galaxy S8, it cannot be installed on Android 8 or above, I carry a iPad to make sure it works.
Start to charge on the app requires pray and luck, as the communication to the station go through the outer space

Overall, they are UESLESS

FLO is much better, at least it works

ChargePoint is great too, their customer support is amazing, fast and helpful

Obviously,
Supercharger wins all the above, very reliable, always works with good speed, but not enough stations in Southern Ontario until Vaughan, Markham, Hamilton, Toronto opens
 

Jaff

Active Member
Aug 15, 2010
3,135
318
Grimsby, Canada
Past 2 weeks I did some long trips to south and north

Got some chances to try the CHAdeMO at Tim Horton and Scotia Bank

It's terrible

I mean, why ON Gov pick such a horrible company to roll out those chargers province wide.

They are SLOW
~30kwh near Niagara fall area,
~25kwh north of barrie
they say capable for 50kwh (I charge at IKEA i get 48kwh)
FAKE NEWS, FALSE Advertisement

They are EXPENSIVE
0.20/min is fine, but the screen do not show you the connection fee (~$2 or $2.50)
30min after, charging stopped, another $2 connection fee
DAMN, not mentioned on the screen

They are UNRELIABLE
I tried about 10 stations overall, only 2 works flawlessly
the rest is either 1) CHAdeMO plug is faulty 2) cannot communicate with the server
EVEN Im willing to pay, it cannot initiate a charge

Oh, customer service?
The agent sounds disappointment and hopeless and contribute a negative attitude to your cold day.

The app?
myEVroute crash easily on my Galaxy S8, it cannot be installed on Android 8 or above, I carry a iPad to make sure it works.
Start to charge on the app requires pray and luck, as the communication to the station go through the outer space

Overall, they are UESLESS

FLO is much better, at least it works

ChargePoint is great too, their customer support is amazing, fast and helpful

Obviously,
Supercharger wins all the above, very reliable, always works with good speed, but not enough stations in Southern Ontario until Vaughan, Markham, Hamilton, Toronto opens

I've never tried a KSI charge station...every Flo station that I've used in the wild has worked flawlessly! I look for Flo stations first when travelling.
 

RiverBrick

Active Member
Mar 23, 2014
2,513
1,721
Mount Washington Valley
Yes, it was a horrible and bewildering decision to award the huge contract to KSI. We're not 2nd-guessing, because the day of the announcement March 2016 many in the community pointed out the red flags that should have been obvious to the transport ministry.
Where do you start? According to the KSI owner's sister, he stole her inheritance and his LinkedIn page is falsified.
 

rypalmer

Active Member
Aug 22, 2014
1,392
1,488
Canada
In retrospect, there should have been conditions placed on the grants to ensure fast chargers had a full 50kW available to them. When most Teslas can rectify at least 11.5kW with onboard equipment, it's silly to spend $100k on a charger only to throttle it to 20kW.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: SmartElectric

sandpiper

Active Member
Sep 25, 2014
2,833
2,140
Ontario, Canada
I 100% agree. The government that paid for this debacle should be doing something to deal with it. It's clear that they have no idea of how to project manage so much as back yard BBQ.

It's worse now than when there was no charging. And it will turn some people off of EVs.
 
  • Love
Reactions: CdnElec

rypalmer

Active Member
Aug 22, 2014
1,392
1,488
Canada
On the flip side.. it should not be difficult for a private operator to come in with faster, cheaper fast charging when the technology advances, and be able to compete. Sounds like some other company I've heard of... now all we need are universal options.
 

rpm001

Member
Mar 26, 2017
262
318
Toronto
I agree very much with the last three posts.
1. Contracting with KSI was a waste of taxpayer dollars.
2. It will turn people off EVs when they have a bad experience, particularly those with the PHEV minivans, Leafs, etc. since they obviously can't take advantage of the supercharger network.
3. My prediction: The gov will likely go and look at metrics of how much usage the stations are getting to decide if they want to do more (assuming another Wynn gov) and the numbers will be extremely low because they're so terrible. And they'll decide not to continue... Fewer new chargers means #2 gets worse.
4. I've been thinking a bit about a non-Tesla for my secondary vehicle since I there's no way I could swing a Model X and my wife wants an SUV. So the only option is to go non-Tesla. But with this situation it really makes it seem silly. I guess we could just use that one for around town...

Basically a guy trying to make a buck can potentially have a potentially significant impact on the EV market in Ontario. Sad to see.

The only saving grace is the supercharger network.
 

Doug_G

Lead Moderator
Apr 2, 2010
17,881
3,351
Ottawa, Canada
I'm amazed at how effectively the Ontario government screwed this up. I mean it's not exactly a difficult problem. You evaluate proposals based on a points system, and good chunk of those points are given for the experience of the bidder. KSI would never have won all those bids.
 
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Reactions: TrevTremaine

CRASHER

Member
Oct 13, 2017
338
245
CANADA
Tim Hortons near my work used to have Greenlot chargers. Which worked flawlessly, their customer service was great too. Then our Govt. replaced them with KSI. They only replaced perfectly fine working charging station with unreliable crappy one for close to $200K.
 

ChooseGreen

Member
Apr 6, 2016
152
158
Ontario, Canada
Thanks for starting this thread. This makes me angry as not only has KSI screwed up the equipment that was installed, but also missed massive areas that were supposed to be installed. The first map showed a layout that made it possible to take a LEAF almost anywhere a road went in Ontario including from Manitoba to Montreal.

Another miss is that the original language said that a credit card could be used to charge at any station. That doesn't seem to be the case either.

I contacted my MPP about this, but haven't heard back about it. I assume (really hope) that there is some provision in the contract somewhere that the government can go after KSI. I would love it if somehow KSI could be taken to the cleaners and that money given to someone else to do the job properly.

I hope I'm not naive!
 
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Reactions: Falkirk

Phillip L

Gas Passer
Mar 31, 2015
729
574
Owen Sound, Ontario, Canada
The sad thing is that it seems every other project was done well and is useful. I am assuming that since there seems to be no complaints here about the others. The few I have used, none being KSI, all worked well. As I stated somewhere else, if they had just given this huge contract to the Flo Network they would be all working well, integrated into the well run Québec charger system, and allow a seamless experience from the NS border into northern Ontario. Instead we get this mess. Argh!!
 

Drone Flyer

Active Member
Feb 22, 2016
1,127
258
Canada
Past 2 weeks I did some long trips to south and north

Got some chances to try the CHAdeMO at Tim Horton and Scotia Bank

It's terrible

I mean, why ON Gov pick such a horrible company to roll out those chargers province wide.

They are SLOW
~30kwh near Niagara fall area,
~25kwh north of barrie
they say capable for 50kwh (I charge at IKEA i get 48kwh)
FAKE NEWS, FALSE Advertisement

They are EXPENSIVE
0.20/min is fine, but the screen do not show you the connection fee (~$2 or $2.50)
30min after, charging stopped, another $2 connection fee
DAMN, not mentioned on the screen

They are UNRELIABLE
I tried about 10 stations overall, only 2 works flawlessly
the rest is either 1) CHAdeMO plug is faulty 2) cannot communicate with the server
EVEN Im willing to pay, it cannot initiate a charge

Oh, customer service?
The agent sounds disappointment and hopeless and contribute a negative attitude to your cold day.

The app?
myEVroute crash easily on my Galaxy S8, it cannot be installed on Android 8 or above, I carry a iPad to make sure it works.
Start to charge on the app requires pray and luck, as the communication to the station go through the outer space

Overall, they are UESLESS

FLO is much better, at least it works

ChargePoint is great too, their customer support is amazing, fast and helpful

Obviously,
Supercharger wins all the above, very reliable, always works with good speed, but not enough stations in Southern Ontario until Vaughan, Markham, Hamilton, Toronto opens
Just don’t use them then. And get an iPhone too! Apple products are pricey but at least they are very reliable. I certainly wouldn’t use anything else!
 

Drone Flyer

Active Member
Feb 22, 2016
1,127
258
Canada
Us Tesla owners have a choice of not using them because of the Supercharger network. But what about all the other EVs depending on them. By not using them, it will skew the statistics towards " nobody is using them, therefore they are not needed "
Yes that’s very true. The Wynn government could very easily say not enough people use them and therefore the project could be cancelled! Maybe this was their plan all along? Could the oil industry be backing the Wynn government?
 

ytwytw

Member
Oct 2, 2017
410
219
Canada
After a trip to the PA/NY I tried twice of EVgo

Now I understand why KSI’s pricing plan

EVgo is 5 dollar connection fee + 0.20/min

Similar to KSI

Only charge 30min or 60min depends on Location

Similar to KSI

After current sesssion expires, another connection fee is required to start a new session

Similar to KSI

I bet their pricing proposal must copy from those US charging networks, so probably I don’t blame them now even the electricity price is much cheaper in ON than PA/NY == huge profit

The problem is EVgo has a subscription plan to pay $15 a month to make connection fee to $0 per session

Hey KSI, why don’t you copy this part?

Oh EVgo has full 48kwh capacity, not 20kwh for KSI
 
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Reactions: MarcoRP

MarcoRP

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2017
5,019
9,686
Montréal
Well I may have found something more expensive than KSI! The FLO DC fast charger at Rideau Center. $20/HOUR + $3/HOUR ON PARKING FEES + 0.50$ IF YOU ARE NOT A MEMBER!!!
 

RiverBrick

Active Member
Mar 23, 2014
2,513
1,721
Mount Washington Valley
When the bids went out for this project, the conditions were 50 kW. If KSI couldn't meet that like other bidders, they should have been excluded. Are there any other EVCO sites sub 125A besides KSI ones?

All of the KSI units between Ottawa and Sudbury (where a Tesla might have use of them) are limited to 75A or less.
Let's say it's too difficult to provide 125A along this stretch and it's not KSI's fault. There are still other slow KSI installations like in Belleville.

However, the short answer is that there are some places where KSI seems to provide full power. They may be an exception.
 

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