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How best to contact Tesla about unacceptable changes in "v7" dashboard.

The difference is that when one buys these cars, one can judge and decide for themselves if they like the UI and NOT BUY THE CAR if they don't like it. But once bought, the UI on every other car on the market does not change at the whim of the manufacturer. And yes, I've been vocal about the UI in my BMW, but no amount of feedback to BMW is going to change the car I currently own.

Some of us buy the car BECAUSE the UI can change. I for one think that it is awesome to get a new look-and-feel in an older car, not having to spend thousands of dollars to upgrade just for a newer looking and functioning software revision. Think about how angry people were because of AP was not able to be retrofit, because its hardware. I suspect there would be a much larger group of people complaining if V7 was only available on new cars (or models).
With software, you have the benefit of a very flexible platform...I applaud Tesla for continually looking to improve or modify the experience, it would be far easier to just let the UI get stale and focus on new models with new hardware.

Since we all learned how to drive and monitor our cars using the available information in the first place, I am betting we will be able to adapt and learn how to operate our cars reliably using the new layout and available information as well.
 

ForeverFree

Member
Supporting Member
Jul 9, 2015
617
1,402
Sherman Oaks, CA
Agree 1000% with OP.

Bought MS in part because of gorgeous, information-rich, and elegantly-designed information presentation.

Have found that I use the data it presents regularly, not only to drive the car but also to learn about driving the car. (Example: Using the two trip odos to see the effects of uphill/downhill segments, addition/removal of bike racks, etc.). Even something small like the clock in the data line at IC bottom helps me to understand the changing segment behavior of my commute.

The info is also just plain interesting. For example, despite what outsiders might think, California is a fascinating place to have a prominently-visible outside thermometer. Due to our topography and micro-climates, temperature can vary up to fifty degrees during the course of an astonishingly short drive.

Finally, as a pilot, I am prone to under-stimulation, boredom, and inattention while driving, if presented with a task-poor, information-poor driving experience. That's why I have always, until now, driven a stick. The current MS IC counters the very real dangers of under-stimulation and inattention. It presents not only detailed data which I can review when it is safe to do so (trip odo numbers, energy graph, etc.) but also intuitively-rendered, grasp-in-an-instant, on-the-fly displays (orange/green power meter) which enable me to understand what the car is doing moment by- moment and improve my one-footed driving technique. (By the way, as a long-time stick driver, I find Model S's single go/slow pedal an amazing tool for mountain driving ... which we have to do here every day, even in the city.)

If v7 launches with the interface which we've glimpsed, I will be disappointed and depressed.

Will I refuse the upgrade? No, too many benefits.

Will I sue Tesla for damaging my driving experience? No, I made a conscious decision to buy a constantly-updating iPhone-with-wheels ... love the idea of updates ... just didn't think they'd pursue a 180-degree turn in the car's sophistication.

Will I be less likely to buy another Tesla? No, the car is just too amazing in other respects.

But will I consider this aspect of the car -- the great info and dazzling display aspect -- to be egregiously compromised and diminished? You bet.

Have only had my 85D for five months, but would love to become a beta tester some day.

As great as Model S is, it could be so much better with just a little more simple, clever use of the data and capabilities which it already has available. (Many great posts on this. MS owners are thoughtful people!)

As for v7 UI "improvements," a CEO and business educator friend of mine says "Strategy is largely about what you choose not to do."

Another colleague, one of the cleverest folks in all of the business realm, states that "every day will present a hundred opportunities to do something stupid. Huge success can be achieved simply by resisting the temptation."

In this case, I dearly hope that Tesla can resist, or at least soon reverse, the temptation to destroy the elegant, fascinating, and useful UI that they have worked to create.

If they feel that they must provide a simplified UI, fine, but then retain/offer the full UI as well. Offer New Coke and the Metro interface to those who would prefer it. But please leave us free to revel in our Coca-Cola Classic, Start menu, and starship MS interface!

And to posters who lecture as to why we shouldn't feel this way, please don't. We're not saying that one UI is better and more useful than another ... but merely that it's hugely more attractive, enjoyable, and more useful for
us. I'm with HLR on this one.
 

Krugerrand

Enough of the 🐩, back to 🐈‍⬛
Jul 13, 2012
12,969
90,310
Tesla friendly place
The difference is that when one buys these cars, one can judge and decide for themselves if they like the UI and NOT BUY THE CAR if they don't like it. But once bought, the UI on every other car on the market does not change at the whim of the manufacturer. And yes, I've been vocal about the UI in my BMW, but no amount of feedback to BMW is going to change the car I currently own.

That is exactly correct. That is how it has always been and it's what the customer has come to expect in cars. However, the times they are a changin' and Tesla did not build a car like BMW et al. This is not me arguing for or against V7, this is me reminding all that Tesla has decided to do things differently, including making UI changes for all sorts of reasons that have been suggested and likely for all sorts of reasons we have no idea about.

Customers have embraced the idea and the ability of Tesla to change the car as months and years go by. Many 2012 owners love the fact their cars have changed and become better. Yes, I understand some think the UI changes coming down the pipe don't make the car better, but make it worse - that's not my point and you all know it.

If we could all reflect for a moment, back to a time when a sequence of road accidents happened and Tesla raised the level of the Model S across the fleet. Oh, the out cry!!!! The car was claimed to have been made worse, how could they, I didn't give them permission.... But then what happened? Tesla made a proactive change to the car at no cost to the customer, they gave suspension height control back to the customer and made both it and the structure of the car better. Voila!

In the end, if the out cry from customers after using V7 is that such and such makes the car less than, Tesla will listen and make changes. They have shown they will do that. The fun is in the journey, not in reaching the end.
 
I have not posted about 7.0 yet; this post to back what OP (and most of what the commenters) wrote.

I have the autopilot sensors, and I think that when autopilot is engaged, it might be useful to have something like the car-othercar-lane animation.
But I would nevertheless prefer to have the power/regen display _at_all_times_ together with the animation, for monitoring what the AP does.

And when AP is not engaged, I would prefer something rather close to the present central display.

In my soon 18 year old Volvo, there is a manometer/vacuumeter attached to the inlet manifold. It tells you how the engine feels: Idling, turbo hyperbaric, whatever.
You can see what the cruise control is doing. It also tells you whether you still have a turbo. I love it. It disappeared in the newer models, which is a pity.
I somehow feel the same way about the power/regen display.
 

SW2Fiddler

We Are Cognitive Dissidents
Mar 19, 2014
2,362
3,276
Houston TX
How best to contact Tesla about unacceptable changes in "v7" dashboard.

Before you get V.7
Use Voice Control, say "Note!" and record a couple of your hopes and fears.

After you get V.7
Use Voice Command and say "Bug Report!" followed by what you don't like and why.

Shorter recordings have a better chance of being successfully processed than over-20-second messages. Think "Vine", not "a verse and chorus of American Pie."

Sorry if this breaks the consensus!
 
At the moment it's looking like I'm going to have to simply refuse software updates -- permanently. With my February 2013 Model S, I don't need or want any of the new features in v.7, and I can't even use most of them, but the current betas dramatically damage the dashboard display by:

(1) removing the front-and-center instantaneous power meter with power-limit and regen-limit lines, which I use routinely (valuable for careful handling in bad conditions, and for monitoring how much of a 'lead foot' I have). Incidentally the power-over-last-50-miles graph is completely useless to me due to the hills here -- the data runs off the top and bottom all the time -- so I certainly don't want to put that on the dashboard.
(2) removing the digital clock with date, which I use routinely (embarassingly, I never know what the day of the week or the date is)
(3) removing the digit after the decimal point on the trip meters, which I use routinely for watching energy up and down the hills
(4) removing the always-on odometer display, which I use routinely (people ask all the time how many miles are on the car)
(5) removing the outside temperature display, which I use routinely
while adding absolutely nothing of any value for me.

Unless these things are rectified, I would consider this update to be damage to my vehicle. I'd expect to be compensated handsomely if it were forced on me -- but it's simpler to simply refuse to update it.

Unfortunately, I"ve read things about Tesla Service Centers refusing to service cars without applying the software updates. So it's not clear whether I'll be able to get service from Tesla at all if they insist on damaging my car during annual service.

I have no idea how best to reach Tesla. It seems like these are stupid mistakes on their part which would be easy to fix, a matter of mere hours of work. The power meter should be an available option for the center display (selectable in the 17" touchscreen under "settings"). The "status line" information should be an available option, in the same way. Problem fixed.

But how to reach Tesla to express how serious this is? You *do not remove functionality from a car which the customer has purchased*. Ever.

I think just about everyone agrees with you on these points. I especially agree with the instantaneous energy meter on the current released version of the software with the regen limite and the power limit. Next to the speed, it is the single most important bit of information when driving the car. It would be silly to remove that from the UI. Even if they wanted to dumb down the UI for the masses, I think even the masses would find the dumbing down a bit too dumb :rolleyes:

And as for providing your feedback to Tesla, I bet they've seen your thread by now along with all the feedback supporting your view.

I'll say this about Tesla. They don't always get everything right but they are quick to listen to customer feedback and make things right when they don't get something right. Remember when they discontinued 19" wheels for the P85D and after the huge outcry it was restored within days. For the Model X reveal, notice they said NOTHING about the UI. They barely even displayed or highlighted any UI elements in the Model X. Chances are someone thought they would make their mark at Tesla with the new UI but the feedback has been so overwhelmingly negative that they decided to redesign some of the beta UI screens that were leaked. Who knows maybe they leaked the beta UI screens just to get some reactions and feedback.

In addition to the power meter I totally agree with you on seeing the actual full day, date, and time along with the outside temperature always visible.

The other beta UI screen element that I find absolutely horrendous is the stupid analog clock. If you are going to take up so much space for an analog clock, at the least make it look better and more functional. Display each hour of the day so you don't have to count dashes on an analog display to figure out the time while driving.

I almost feel like the Ver. 7.0 screen elements and UI have been designed by someone who does not drive much or owns a Tesla to know what is useful information to display...
 
What icon are you talking about? Are you talking about the skeuomorphic toy car? It displaces lots of other useful information. The toy-car is fine to show open doors, seat belts, lights, etc.. but it doesn't have to be a video game taking up 1/3 of the IC display. Also, who needs this big splash of bright white light in front of the toy car to show the headlights are on? Isn't the green "headlight" icon enough?

View attachment 96648

I like the "toy car" reference. :smile:

And, yes, I'm referring to the one on the right. With a glance, it can indicate a great deal of data. Lights on, car on left, car on right, car ahead, etc. It can also indicate AP's intent to change lanes and overtake. As well as indicate to you what the car is "seeing".

Let's take into consideration the "wrinkle lines" in the lower left and right of the speedo that indicate a car next to you. Very subtle, don't you think? I don't really mind it, however, it can be very difficult to see against the grey contrast. I have a strong belief that the v7 "toy car" can be even more useful for those cars that are not equipped with AP as those drivers are more attentive to road conditions by habit. They certainly want to glean as much info as they possibly can with a quick look and return their eyes to the road.

I should make note that my post was not meant to criticize either. I'm not judgmental my an stretch of the imagination. However, I do want to emphasize that this is a UI for a 5700 lb car. Not a watch (not a fan of the Apple Watch), cell phone or electronic device that you can stare at without parking your baby in someone's trunk. I strongly believe that the primary idea is to receive as much input in as quick a manner as possible relevant primarily to your safety. With a second emphasis on creature comforts. Remember, you as the driver have access to 2 separate screens. Smart use of the graphical interface real estate is essential.

Now, am I completely in love with the layout as it is now. Not completely.

I think the media player is way too large. If you're going to displace relevant data on the speedo, then provide for that information on the center screen perhaps? And, I'm not naive... I would completely agree that they're certainly following the UI trends of others as well. Whether they're sexy or not. One thing I've noticed is their can be a great deal of duplicity of data on both screens (music, etc.).
 

HankLloydRight

No Roads
Supporting Member
Jan 18, 2014
13,619
12,081
Connecticut
Some of us buy the car BECAUSE the UI can change. I for one think that it is awesome to get a new look-and-feel in an older car, not having to spend thousands of dollars to upgrade just for a newer looking and functioning software revision. Think about how angry people were because of AP was not able to be retrofit, because its hardware. I suspect there would be a much larger group of people complaining if V7 was only available on new cars (or models).
With software, you have the benefit of a very flexible platform...I applaud Tesla for continually looking to improve or modify the experience, it would be far easier to just let the UI get stale and focus on new models with new hardware.

I think you missed my point. Nowhere am I saying that UI change is bad. I'm with you 100%! I've been developing software and user interfaces since I was high-school, so I'm no foreigner to progress and changes to software/UI. I love the fact that Tesla can and does update the car (all facets of the car). What I don't like is backward progress, or progress for progress's sake, or jumping on the "flat design" bandwagon when in fact, none of the tenets of "flat design" really apply to cars!
 
Some of us buy the car BECAUSE the UI can change. I for one think that it is awesome to get a new look-and-feel in an older car, not having to spend thousands of dollars to upgrade just for a newer looking and functioning software revision. Think about how angry people were because of AP was not able to be retrofit, because its hardware. I suspect there would be a much larger group of people complaining if V7 was only available on new cars (or models).
With software, you have the benefit of a very flexible platform...I applaud Tesla for continually looking to improve or modify the experience, it would be far easier to just let the UI get stale and focus on new models with new hardware.

Since we all learned how to drive and monitor our cars using the available information in the first place, I am betting we will be able to adapt and learn how to operate our cars reliably using the new layout and available information as well.

I agree with you 100%. I think it's nice to get a UI refresh from time to time. People sometimes forget that Tesla is also a tech company. If the new UI sucks, then we will all complain, and Tesla will make the necessary changes. Just like Microsoft with Windows 8. What I wonder is if Tesla will allow users to switch to "classic" mode to appease some owners. Or like Microsoft, give users the choice to upgrade. Of course for those users who opt not to upgrade, tesla may not keep updating their cars (nor should they) as it is old software (just like Microsoft does not offer updates for the old operating systems). What we all find necessary for the UI is highly subjective anyway. I have a 130 mile daily commute in the Midwest in all types of weather(24000 miles in 7 months so far) and the reality is all I really need is the the speed and range remaining. Energy consumption and temp is helpful and it looks like I can view those on the new UI if I want, but they do necessarily have to be constantly on the screen (for me). I am sure the new UI will notify us when regen is limited. I personally don't care if my passenger can see the temp because they can always ask me (I am usually a polite person).
 

yobigd20

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2012
6,014
612
Skaneateles, NY
At the moment it's looking like I'm going to have to simply refuse software updates -- permanently. With my February 2013 Model S, I don't need or want any of the new features in v.7, and I can't even use most of them, but the current betas dramatically damage the dashboard display by:

(1) removing the front-and-center instantaneous power meter with power-limit and regen-limit lines, which I use routinely (valuable for careful handling in bad conditions, and for monitoring how much of a 'lead foot' I have). Incidentally the power-over-last-50-miles graph is completely useless to me due to the hills here -- the data runs off the top and bottom all the time -- so I certainly don't want to put that on the dashboard.
(2) removing the digital clock with date, which I use routinely (embarassingly, I never know what the day of the week or the date is)
(3) removing the digit after the decimal point on the trip meters, which I use routinely for watching energy up and down the hills
(4) removing the always-on odometer display, which I use routinely (people ask all the time how many miles are on the car)
(5) removing the outside temperature display, which I use routinely
while adding absolutely nothing of any value for me.

Unless these things are rectified, I would consider this update to be damage to my vehicle. I'd expect to be compensated handsomely if it were forced on me -- but it's simpler to simply refuse to update it.

Unfortunately, I"ve read things about Tesla Service Centers refusing to service cars without applying the software updates. So it's not clear whether I'll be able to get service from Tesla at all if they insist on damaging my car during annual service.

I have no idea how best to reach Tesla. It seems like these are stupid mistakes on their part which would be easy to fix, a matter of mere hours of work. The power meter should be an available option for the center display (selectable in the 17" touchscreen under "settings"). The "status line" information should be an available option, in the same way. Problem fixed.

But how to reach Tesla to express how serious this is? You *do not remove functionality from a car which the customer has purchased*. Ever.

i 100% agree with you. I very much dislike the new version and will probably keep refusing updates until they release a new version that gives us these features back.
 
My suggestion is to settle down, take a deep breath, and stop wasting Tesla employee time by complaining about a UI that you haven't seen or even interacted with.

But we have seen it. Look at the pictures available (and videos ) of the MX. It is here. It just has not been downloaded to the MS yet. Maybe if they get enough feedback before doing so, they can add back the simple but highly desirable features BEFORE they further irritate a large number of owners. Being proactive is usually a good thing.
 

Ugliest1

S85: "Sparky"
Supporting Member
Aug 19, 2013
1,401
1,661
Victoria BC Canada
Just to get back to the point of this thread -- I think the thread's existence alone is a good way that Tesla staff can dip a toe into the owner psyche about v7, without looking too hard. Kind of like getting pre-feedback. It's a bit back and forth and yes, v7 hasn't been released yet so no point in getting hot under the collar until we receive it.

I have no problem with Tesla making changes, in fact that is a major selling point as mentioned earlier. I don't really care much about most UI changes either - that's Tesla's business and they put a lot more thought into it than I do. I did respond up-thread though with my one big wish - keep the power use/recharge display.

Now, I haven't seen any videos of v7 in action, and have only seen the few pictures that all show the speed of the car at zero. Is it possible that the display changes once the car starts moving, adding the power use/recharge display?
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Supporting Member
Mar 8, 2012
20,832
29,892
Texas
Now, I haven't seen any videos of v7 in action, and have only seen the few pictures that all show the speed of the car at zero. Is it possible that the display changes once the car starts moving, adding the power use/recharge display?
It's possible, but it seems unlikely to me because there are pictures of a dumbed down power metre in one of the side panels, so it would be very redundant to have both. The scale was such that it conveyed no useful information. It's painfully obvious that whomever designed it and also the person who approved the design has never actually driven the car more than just around the block (if that).
 

liuping

Active Member
Jul 23, 2013
2,243
927
San Diego

Andyw2100

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2014
6,545
2,445
Ithaca, NY
After you get V.7
Use Voice Command and say "Bug Report!" followed by what you don't like and why.

Perhaps I am mistaken about this, but I've always thought that bug report feature should be reserved for true bug reports--issues that might benefit from the cars' logs being pulled and examined, for example. I would consider issues involving likes and dislikes of various aspects of the UI more along the lines of feature requests than bug reports, and so for the situation in question would just write and send an email message.
 

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