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How best to contact Tesla about unacceptable changes in "v7" dashboard.

andydoty

Member
Jan 12, 2014
228
2
Massachusetts
I have absolutely no idea why I keep looking at this thread... So much negativity!

Let me reiterate what I said earlier:

This is a car. Not an iPhone. My reference has significance. A phone (Android or IOS) can present to it's user an over abundance of information all at once. That is it's purpose. If you think about it, you are generally stationary (not driving :wink:) when viewing it. This is a moving vehicle. Aesthetics must play a 2nd fiddle to functionality. The car has to present relevant data to the driver in as quick a glance as possible. You are not supposed to be staring at your dashboard while driving. You're supposed to be driving!

Graphics have been the long time standard for that representation (Icons, etc.). If a "ghost" car appears on the dashboard next to my car, I can clearly and efficiently glean from a glance that there is a car next to me. Now, to that, I am a die hard geek and would love to see the geek information behind things as well. Just not while I"m actively driving the car all the time.

No something that I think we need to keep in mind about AP vehicles. It has been said that AP will engage on some rural roads as well. We need to point out and keep in mind that the car (as far as we know) cannot read stop signs and traffic lights. So, if you set it, don't forget to disengage it at an intersection.

Rant over. I, for one, will be using AP right from the get-go. I also am in the IT industry and I expect the car to behave a particular way (logically) as it has. I can tell when it doesn't see things or misinterprets something. BTW Tesla, VIN 79715. Wink Wink Nudge Nudge...

Let's give them a chance! Also, keep in mind, they must produce a car that adheres to ALL of the standards and requirements everywhere. Not just what you'd like to see. That being said, I also would LIKE to see the temp, day, date and time as a static.

As a side note, I have a great deal of respect to those with non-AP equipped vehicles. As was my choice, I traded in my P85 for the P85D.
 

rainman50

Member
Aug 31, 2013
139
15
Midwest
But unless I am mistaken, Apple has provided the option for either method to work. (I don't use iOS, but I recall seeing an option for something like this on my wife's Macbook.) So the people that liked it better the old way are not forced to change.

The option was set to default to the new method. I immediately changed it to the older method on all of my devices. I'm glad that Apple let the customer choose if they wanted to use it or keep the original method.
Hope Tesla will allow you to at least keep the time, temp etc on the main screen without wasting one of the two side options.
 

Rafik

Member
Jul 30, 2015
50
0
Tampa, FL
At first, I was adamantly opposed to removing the combined speedo/energy meter - I loved the convenience of having them combined seemed perfect to me before I drove the car. After getting the car, I started paying close attention to my habits when looking at the IC and I noticed a few things. First and foremost, I spend about 10x more time looking at the energy meter than the speedo; having an analog speedo is important for perceiving relative changes in speed/acceleration, but I'm no longer convinced that it needs to occupy one half of the IC centerpiece. A horizontal bar along the top, under the numeric speedo would suffice. Having a dedicated energy meter is still critical to me, and while having it front and center is nice...I could get used to having it off to one side.

As for the new mini-me center piece - the more I imagine it in practice, the more I see the reasoning behind it...at least for AP cars. The current blind spot indicators simply don't cut it. The turn signals are not prominent enough and in two weeks of ownership, I've already found myself inadvertently driving with my turn signals on because I didn't realize they were on. The information is there on screen, but the UI's fatal flaw is that my eyes still often have to "look" for the relevant information. The relevant information does not instantly stand out and catch my eye the way it often should, diminishing usability. I also do think that a real-time visual representation of my "lane-keeping" ability would be useful in practice. Having all this information seamlessly placed in one singular location at a glance could really turn out to be more "functional" than the current combined speedo/energy meter. The speedo/energy meter provides a maximum of two data points. The new bird's eye view of the car can potentially provide many more data points at a split second glance. It simply needs to be done right and visually crafted in such a way that the relevant info catches your eye the way as intended. Based off the beta pics, the design still appears grossly unpolished, but I'm sure this will improve. Having a horizontal analog speedometer in-between the numeric speedo and mini-me car would make it complete imo. None of this applies to non-AP cars and in that circumstance, I do agree the redesign is a huge step backwards.
 

Todd Burch

Voltage makes me tingle.
Nov 3, 2009
7,916
29,600
Smithfield, VA
Why does everyone say they need an instrument in order to judge changes in speed? I'm not convinced such a gauge is necessary. Any acceleration that causes a significant-enough change in speed (and therefore would register with a quick glance at an analog speed gauge) would also be easily felt. Moreover, it would also be seen with the digital speed numerals changing.

When driving, I can tell when my speed is constant by feel alone. It could be my background flying sailplanes (and flying "by the seat of my pants"), but I doubt it--I think virtually all drivers can tell by feel whether they're accelerating or traveling at constant speed.
 

HankLloydRight

No Roads
Jan 18, 2014
12,899
10,911
Connecticut
Why does everyone say they need an instrument in order to judge changes in speed? I'm not convinced such a gauge is necessary

You're not convinced, but I don't believe people need to justify why they do or do not want/like/need something on the IC. Everyone has their individual preferences. Tesla shouldn't be taking those away from people who want/like/need them "just because".
 

Muzzman1

Member
Feb 8, 2014
562
788
Los Angeles
Maybe to put some of you at ease. I can advise you that all but #3 of the OP's complaints are not in the latest beta. I happened to have seen that latest on a Classic non-AP car. (let's leave it at that)
 

Todd Burch

Voltage makes me tingle.
Nov 3, 2009
7,916
29,600
Smithfield, VA
You're not convinced, but I don't believe people need to justify why they do or do not want/like/need something on the IC. Everyone has their individual preferences. Tesla shouldn't be taking those away from people who want/like/need them "just because".

You don't need to justify your preference at all, but you also can't expect to have every option under the sun either.
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Mar 8, 2012
19,631
22,278
Texas
Why does everyone say they need an instrument in order to judge changes in speed?

Not to judge changes in speed, but to monitor the power being used. Without a way to measure that, you have to do it by feel and the problem with that is that it's often subjective. Some days the same acceleration feels slower than other days. In the Prius, I put in a Scangauge so that I could judge the acceleration (interestingly enough the timing advance is the best measure for that in the Prius). The Model S has a great power metre so I don't have to purchase additional instrumentation.

I am just so sick of companies taking things away from us. The have something that actually works well and then they screw it up in the name of progress.
 

Todd Burch

Voltage makes me tingle.
Nov 3, 2009
7,916
29,600
Smithfield, VA
Not to judge changes in speed, but to monitor the power being used.

I was referring to the comment that an analog speed gauge better communicates acceleration.

Without a way to measure that, you have to do it by feel and the problem with that is that it's often subjective.

To me, constant speed always feels like constant speed, but that's obviously a personal thing. Point is, of course the energy meter is not taken away, so you still have a way to measure it.

There are two approaches one can take to driving: One is that you seek a specific speed, and apply whatever power is necessary to achieve or maintain that specific speed. With this approach, power input is secondary (in fact dependent) on the desired speed. The other approach is seeking a specific power usage and adjusting your speed as necessary in order to maintain that power usage. Here, speed is secondary (or dependent upon) power usage.

The former approach is used by regular people when they drive. They think "I want to be going 35 mph. I am going to watch the speedometer and apply the amount of power I need to maintain my desired speed." When doing this, the power meter is merely informational, but not necessary to maintain the desired speed. When I am trying to hold 50 mph on a road, I don't seek a specific power value, because it's dependent on wind, incline, road surface, tire pressures, etc...

The latter approach is used by hypermilers (such as yourself). They think "I want to use no more than 20 kW, regardless of the speed that results from that power input." Driving this way results in wildly varying speeds--not conducive to driving around others (unless you love being the target of road rage).

The "speed-is-primary" approach is common. The "power-is-primary" approach is an edge case.

This reminds me of a saying used by Apple's Objective-C framework development team: Make common things easy, make uncommon things possible. In this case, the common thing (using speed as the primary control) is easy--the speedometer is right in your face. The uncommon thing (using power as the primary control) is possible (by displaying the energy graph).
 

70Dan

VP of R&D at ConstructBuy
Jun 22, 2015
23
0
Drummond, QC, CAN
I agree with the OP.

This new update felt like a letdown because the power gauge, which was my favorite UI feature of the car, is now practically useless.
 

dsm363

Roadster + Sig Model S
May 17, 2009
18,278
151
Nevada
I agree with the OP.

This new update felt like a letdown because the power gauge, which was my favorite UI feature of the car, is now practically useless.

How so? Do you mean while in Autopilot mode? In standard driving mode in a non AP car at least it looks almost identical and functions the same as the old power meter.
 

TomL

Member
Nov 16, 2014
23
0
Vadnais Hts, MN
Even in non-AP mode, the old center gauge is gone. For cars without AP hardware, you're right, it's mostly the same. Maybe I can have the SC disable my AP hardware so I can get a decent center gauge?
 

dsm363

Roadster + Sig Model S
May 17, 2009
18,278
151
Nevada
Even in non-AP mode, the old center gauge is gone. For cars without AP hardware, you're right, it's mostly the same. Maybe I can have the SC disable my AP hardware so I can get a decent center gauge?

I see. I don't have the Autopilot hardware. They really should fix that then. Have two modes for the UI for driving and Autopilot.
 

redi

2013 P85+
Aug 31, 2013
612
150
DFW, TX
Thread topic/title is: How best to contact Tesla about unacceptable changes in V7 dashboard

Might I suggest a group letter addressed and sent registered mail to Elon Musk? :biggrin:

You'll likely have about as much success complaining about v7 as everyone did with the air "suspension-gate" stealth ride-height neutering update almost exactly two years ago.

I like my car a lot, but I have seen no evidence in 2+ years that Tesla is driven by current owner group opinions in any way or form. Good luck with that.

I happen to agree with you on the UI changes.
 

TomL

Member
Nov 16, 2014
23
0
Vadnais Hts, MN
After spending over an hour behind the wheel with V7, I'm almost thinking some of the new GUI "features" are actually a bit dangerous. The small fonts and numeric values force me to focus on the display rather than see things via peripheral vision. I'm talking about the TACC setting, speed limit "icon", and the new energy indicator. Even the speed value seems small, but I'm not sure about that. Maybe it's just too high on the screen, not sure.

With the TACC, I found myself doing the math in my head, thinking "ok, I'm going 56, TACC is set to (...wait, squinting...) 65, which way do I want to move the control arm...?", then I remembered to look up and start driving again...
 

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