davidc18
Active Member
I have to agree that taking away information currently available in the IC will, in my opinion, damage my vehicle.
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How best to contact Tesla about unacceptable changes in "v7" dashboard.
- Thread starter neroden
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- Model S User Interface
I strongly agree with you here. Even though I!d like to wait and see what actually comes out before passing judgement, it is good to let them know what people feel about it beforehand.
On a similar note. My friend has had Infiinitis for years and the new ones eliminated the central analog clock in the center stack. He says it will influence him quite a bit him buying another Infiniti. Sometimes one small simple thing can change a decision. In our case it looks like they are changing quite a few things.
All we can do for now is wait for the final release and voice our comments on what we see in the beta versions. Hopefully they implement it in a fashion to satisfy all via optional selections. I do look forward to seeing the current pressure in the tires.
On a similar note. My friend has had Infiinitis for years and the new ones eliminated the central analog clock in the center stack. He says it will influence him quite a bit him buying another Infiniti. Sometimes one small simple thing can change a decision. In our case it looks like they are changing quite a few things.
All we can do for now is wait for the final release and voice our comments on what we see in the beta versions. Hopefully they implement it in a fashion to satisfy all via optional selections. I do look forward to seeing the current pressure in the tires.
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I definitely do not want most of the current display to change in fundamental information-presenting way(s). What I've seen of v7 makes the dash far worse and I "need" the current power meter for range on trips, and general driving.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
I've been carefully watching my IC to see exactly what I use and how often -- and surprisingly, I use my "Trip B" odo a lot for carefully watching Wh/m on trip segments other than "since last charge" (or whatever the new "Since --:--" time based odo will be with V7.)
Sometimes when I have plenty of charge, I don't watch it as closely other than to see that I'm using >400Wh/m due to lead-foot, but more often than not, I am using the current segment Wh/m to carefully gauge/temper my driving if I'm on a long trip and weather and traffic is a risk (pretty high in the greater NYC area). I use "Trip A" for "lifetime odo/Wh/m" so I don't NEED that on the IC, but I could be using it for something else, so I don't think TM should have removed both A/B odos entirely and replaced it with something that appears to be out of the driver's control (since last start?).
Sometimes when I have plenty of charge, I don't watch it as closely other than to see that I'm using >400Wh/m due to lead-foot, but more often than not, I am using the current segment Wh/m to carefully gauge/temper my driving if I'm on a long trip and weather and traffic is a risk (pretty high in the greater NYC area). I use "Trip A" for "lifetime odo/Wh/m" so I don't NEED that on the IC, but I could be using it for something else, so I don't think TM should have removed both A/B odos entirely and replaced it with something that appears to be out of the driver's control (since last start?).
I don't usually do this, however, I'm making an exception. And I know this is going to bring a great deal of angry comments... But...
I review the forum semi-religiously and am finding the v7 discussion threads to be a bit annoying. I largely agree with AIMc above. My thoughts for whatever they're worth:
I think Tesla should take as much time with v7 as necessary. Period. This is a 5700 lb car, not an iPhone. Make it right before you release it. While some do not have autopilot, I for one do not want my car injuring or killing someone due to bug in the software.
Get over the UI. Do you have control over your iPhone UI? No. How about the alarm system at home? Or thermostat? Solar inverter controller? If you purchased a BMW, Mercedes or Audi, would you be equally as vocal about the UI. Those cars have stationary gauges, dials and knobs. And the Tesla icon in the center that indicates various functions and alerts? Many other cars use this icon. Nissan for one. It's becoming very popular.
While we're on the discussion of UI, did you ever notice that both displays indicate the temp outside? Kind of a waste, don't you think? Vehicle UI's are designed to indicate as much data as "safely" possible using short glances. You are in a moving vehicle. Also, what about taking into consideration font size requirements due to ADA, or various local, State and Federal laws. This is an international car as well, so let's introduce the requirements of other countries. I don't believe Tesla is asking a 12 year old with a crayon to create the UI (although I've seen some very talented 12 year olds). They engage graphic artists and ergonomics specialists. Stand next to your Model S. Have you ever noticed the elegant lines? I don't know about you, but I get compliments all the time about beautiful lines.
It is well known that Tesla reviews these forums. Perhaps we not pass judgement on one aspect of v7 until we've received it. Then a polite "I don't care for this" or "I really like that" comment or email would be more beneficial.
I think we're losing focus. v7 is not solely about the UI. What about the AP? What about torque sleep for non-dual motor vehicles? What about safety features (collision avoidance, side impact warnings, etc.)? LTE? The REALLY slow browser (even with LTE)? What about other streaming services? In-cabin WiFi?
I'm a beta tester for a very large telecommunications company. We are selected as a cross section of the ownership community to provide input with features we like, but primarily test it for basic functionality first and foremost. The court of public opinion is held until after the release. Oh yeah, we sign an NDA and DO NOT discuss it with anyone unless told to do so. Now if Tesla is reading this... I'm available to beta anytime you want! Wink. Wink. Nudge. Nudge.
I've heard several people (that are not Tesla owners) rant about the interior design of a Tesla that costs $100k on average lacking in design as compared to a similar vehicle in another brand. I will admit it's a bit minimalist and kind of retro. However, a friend of mine (who is not an owner and has ridden in the car several times) speculated that it's probably due to weight more then anything else. And that really got me thinking. He's probably right. Tesla must have put a great deal of thought and emphasis on weight...
I, like many IT professionals, have A.D.D. I think most of you would agree that that's a requirement in our field having to deal with input from multiple sources all at the same time. So, I tend to lose interest in threads that span over too many pages and discuss the same thing. Now, with regards to SparkyD? I want him to present data to me in a controlled and comfortable manner.... Just sayin'!
I review the forum semi-religiously and am finding the v7 discussion threads to be a bit annoying. I largely agree with AIMc above. My thoughts for whatever they're worth:
I think Tesla should take as much time with v7 as necessary. Period. This is a 5700 lb car, not an iPhone. Make it right before you release it. While some do not have autopilot, I for one do not want my car injuring or killing someone due to bug in the software.
Get over the UI. Do you have control over your iPhone UI? No. How about the alarm system at home? Or thermostat? Solar inverter controller? If you purchased a BMW, Mercedes or Audi, would you be equally as vocal about the UI. Those cars have stationary gauges, dials and knobs. And the Tesla icon in the center that indicates various functions and alerts? Many other cars use this icon. Nissan for one. It's becoming very popular.
While we're on the discussion of UI, did you ever notice that both displays indicate the temp outside? Kind of a waste, don't you think? Vehicle UI's are designed to indicate as much data as "safely" possible using short glances. You are in a moving vehicle. Also, what about taking into consideration font size requirements due to ADA, or various local, State and Federal laws. This is an international car as well, so let's introduce the requirements of other countries. I don't believe Tesla is asking a 12 year old with a crayon to create the UI (although I've seen some very talented 12 year olds). They engage graphic artists and ergonomics specialists. Stand next to your Model S. Have you ever noticed the elegant lines? I don't know about you, but I get compliments all the time about beautiful lines.
It is well known that Tesla reviews these forums. Perhaps we not pass judgement on one aspect of v7 until we've received it. Then a polite "I don't care for this" or "I really like that" comment or email would be more beneficial.
I think we're losing focus. v7 is not solely about the UI. What about the AP? What about torque sleep for non-dual motor vehicles? What about safety features (collision avoidance, side impact warnings, etc.)? LTE? The REALLY slow browser (even with LTE)? What about other streaming services? In-cabin WiFi?
I'm a beta tester for a very large telecommunications company. We are selected as a cross section of the ownership community to provide input with features we like, but primarily test it for basic functionality first and foremost. The court of public opinion is held until after the release. Oh yeah, we sign an NDA and DO NOT discuss it with anyone unless told to do so. Now if Tesla is reading this... I'm available to beta anytime you want! Wink. Wink. Nudge. Nudge.
I've heard several people (that are not Tesla owners) rant about the interior design of a Tesla that costs $100k on average lacking in design as compared to a similar vehicle in another brand. I will admit it's a bit minimalist and kind of retro. However, a friend of mine (who is not an owner and has ridden in the car several times) speculated that it's probably due to weight more then anything else. And that really got me thinking. He's probably right. Tesla must have put a great deal of thought and emphasis on weight...
I, like many IT professionals, have A.D.D. I think most of you would agree that that's a requirement in our field having to deal with input from multiple sources all at the same time. So, I tend to lose interest in threads that span over too many pages and discuss the same thing. Now, with regards to SparkyD? I want him to present data to me in a controlled and comfortable manner.... Just sayin'!
Krugerrand
Meow
Thread topic/title is: How best to contact Tesla about unacceptable changes in V7 dashboard
Might I suggest a group letter addressed and sent registered mail to Elon Musk? :biggrin:
Might I suggest a group letter addressed and sent registered mail to Elon Musk? :biggrin:
Krugerrand
Meow
As you know, I thought your post was excellent and currently it fits in with almost every other post made to this point. (And I wasn't actually thinking about you or your post when I posted.) The OP, though, might want some suggestions to his question. Maybe if there is a current beta tester reading this thread they could offer contact ideas/suggestions - without revealing they are a beta tester of course.
Well, as long as you're using discussions like these to telegraph to TM what is good and what is bad about updates, I'll jump in and provide input, too:
* PLEASE make sure the update RETAINS the analog clock feature, in that it is an overwhelmingly superior method to demonstrate time and its passage to the ridiculous digital output that unfortunately has become nigh-ubiquitous in recent decades.
* PLEASE make sure the update RETAINS the analog clock feature, in that it is an overwhelmingly superior method to demonstrate time and its passage to the ridiculous digital output that unfortunately has become nigh-ubiquitous in recent decades.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
(I'm responding to andydoty because he posted in this thread. The mods might want to move these posts over to the other thread. Thanks).
While I don't have much control over the UI if iOS, and while I abhorrently hate the flat design direction that Apple has moved to, at least the content of the information provided in the UI has not changed, only the "look and feel" of the UI has changed, which I can adjust to even if I don't like it. But the functionality for the most part has stayed the same or has been vastly improved. I can't think of one example on iOS where Apple removed large and important chunks of content that the user couldn't put back with user settings/options. What Tesla has done is strip an otherwise excellent UI of some information and content that users CAN'T put back even if they wanted. That's the difference. Also, an alarm system or inverter UI is nowhere in the same class as a car or cell phone interface. Those are simply "ON/OFF/UP/DOWN" and people aren't passionate about those interfaces they use once in awhile.
The difference is that when one buys these cars, one can judge and decide for themselves if they like the UI and NOT BUY THE CAR if they don't like it. But once bought, the UI on every other car on the market does not change at the whim of the manufacturer. And yes, I've been vocal about the UI in my BMW, but no amount of feedback to BMW is going to change the car I currently own.
What icon are you talking about? Are you talking about the skeuomorphic toy car? It displaces lots of other useful information. The toy-car is fine to show open doors, seat belts, lights, etc.. but it doesn't have to be a video game taking up 1/3 of the IC display. Also, who needs this big splash of bright white light in front of the toy car to show the headlights are on? Isn't the green "headlight" icon enough?
No. The IC display is for the driver. Having the time/date/temp duplicated on the touchscreen is very handy for passengers who can't see the IC. And having those only on the touchscreen is inconvenient for the driver to try and focus on the time in a tiny font on the touchscreen. And temp is now also gone from both places unless display the "clock app" which displaces other information.
While I don't have much control over the UI if iOS, and while I abhorrently hate the flat design direction that Apple has moved to, at least the content of the information provided in the UI has not changed, only the "look and feel" of the UI has changed, which I can adjust to even if I don't like it. But the functionality for the most part has stayed the same or has been vastly improved. I can't think of one example on iOS where Apple removed large and important chunks of content that the user couldn't put back with user settings/options. What Tesla has done is strip an otherwise excellent UI of some information and content that users CAN'T put back even if they wanted. That's the difference. Also, an alarm system or inverter UI is nowhere in the same class as a car or cell phone interface. Those are simply "ON/OFF/UP/DOWN" and people aren't passionate about those interfaces they use once in awhile.
The difference is that when one buys these cars, one can judge and decide for themselves if they like the UI and NOT BUY THE CAR if they don't like it. But once bought, the UI on every other car on the market does not change at the whim of the manufacturer. And yes, I've been vocal about the UI in my BMW, but no amount of feedback to BMW is going to change the car I currently own.
What icon are you talking about? Are you talking about the skeuomorphic toy car? It displaces lots of other useful information. The toy-car is fine to show open doors, seat belts, lights, etc.. but it doesn't have to be a video game taking up 1/3 of the IC display. Also, who needs this big splash of bright white light in front of the toy car to show the headlights are on? Isn't the green "headlight" icon enough?
No. The IC display is for the driver. Having the time/date/temp duplicated on the touchscreen is very handy for passengers who can't see the IC. And having those only on the touchscreen is inconvenient for the driver to try and focus on the time in a tiny font on the touchscreen. And temp is now also gone from both places unless display the "clock app" which displaces other information.
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TES-E
Member
I suggest that one wait until V7 is in general release and people have used it for at least a few days before sending such a letter.
I'm firmly in the camp of not giving a flyin' flip about the interface. Do I like 6.2? Yep. Will I like 7.0? Yep. I agree with andydoty that this mass hysteria over the UI of 7.0 is partly funny and partly annoying. We can certainly become a little spoiled sometimes I believe.
I'm going with my mother tomorrow morning to look at new Porsches, BMWs, and Infinitis...and I'm going to hate it. Part of what scares my mom away from the Tesla is the thought of being intimidated by all of the information/calculation that she thinks she has to do in order to drive a Tesla. If Tesla is making this change (which I do admit is a big change in philosophy as far as how much information is provided), to help make it more user friendly for the masses, then isn't that going right along with their motto of speeding up the change of sustainable transport? Their mission isn't to design a car that Tesla and tech geeks will love, but to design one that someone like my 62 year old mother (who has not a clue what watts per mile are) would feel comfortable in.
I agree with the other suggestions that options or skins would be a good feature. So you can choose between the "old school" and "new school' UIs would be very cool. Perhaps they will do that sometime in the future, if the system is capable of hosting more than one UI.
I'm all for people expressing their opinion, but the extent that some on this board (not just with this issue) go to in expressing those opinions is a little dramatic. As for me, when I get the "New Software Version" little icon, I just might pull over on the side of the road right then!
I'm going with my mother tomorrow morning to look at new Porsches, BMWs, and Infinitis...and I'm going to hate it. Part of what scares my mom away from the Tesla is the thought of being intimidated by all of the information/calculation that she thinks she has to do in order to drive a Tesla. If Tesla is making this change (which I do admit is a big change in philosophy as far as how much information is provided), to help make it more user friendly for the masses, then isn't that going right along with their motto of speeding up the change of sustainable transport? Their mission isn't to design a car that Tesla and tech geeks will love, but to design one that someone like my 62 year old mother (who has not a clue what watts per mile are) would feel comfortable in.
I agree with the other suggestions that options or skins would be a good feature. So you can choose between the "old school" and "new school' UIs would be very cool. Perhaps they will do that sometime in the future, if the system is capable of hosting more than one UI.
I'm all for people expressing their opinion, but the extent that some on this board (not just with this issue) go to in expressing those opinions is a little dramatic. As for me, when I get the "New Software Version" little icon, I just might pull over on the side of the road right then!
perkiset
... this one goes to 11
I think the largest compliant from some folks like me, Hank, is when you say, "What Tesla has done..." when they haven't done it yet. I agree 100% about loss of utility in my vehicle, being extremely loud and articulate when someone screws up and making sure that my opinion is heard. But I think the point is that they do get the opportunity to screw up before we scream at them for doing so.
When I look at the icon on the right, I'm actually intrigued about what they are implying. Is it just a skeu car and headlight icon? Or does it represent something more ... perhaps an area that the car is confident about, and the area outside it's not? I'm willing to wait and see. There was a post in the other V7 board about Tesla's incompetance. I'd disagree whole heartidly: They came up with an interface that is so good, people are screaming about having it changed. So they clearly have some smarts and know what they are doing. I, for one, would like to imagine that they're not screwing things up just to screw them up - but to better the interface. Not to remove things for some silly design principle (which I abhor as well) but to better the car.
Will they do it? Only time and a general release of the new operating system will tell. But I can say this: I'm behind Tesla trying to make the car better. And I'll be letting them know and be standing right beside you if they don't. And I'm actually OK with much of the pre-release pre-knowledge rant.
But the They've Already Screwed It Up meme sounds more like damaging and direct attacks that create fodder for haters, rather than constructive criticism.
When I look at the icon on the right, I'm actually intrigued about what they are implying. Is it just a skeu car and headlight icon? Or does it represent something more ... perhaps an area that the car is confident about, and the area outside it's not? I'm willing to wait and see. There was a post in the other V7 board about Tesla's incompetance. I'd disagree whole heartidly: They came up with an interface that is so good, people are screaming about having it changed. So they clearly have some smarts and know what they are doing. I, for one, would like to imagine that they're not screwing things up just to screw them up - but to better the interface. Not to remove things for some silly design principle (which I abhor as well) but to better the car.
Will they do it? Only time and a general release of the new operating system will tell. But I can say this: I'm behind Tesla trying to make the car better. And I'll be letting them know and be standing right beside you if they don't. And I'm actually OK with much of the pre-release pre-knowledge rant.
But the They've Already Screwed It Up meme sounds more like damaging and direct attacks that create fodder for haters, rather than constructive criticism.
TES-E
Member
It may be too late then. If I let them change it, will they revert it back if I ask them to? I suspect not...
This is kind of the problem. Basically what's wanted is to insure that the components of the UI people want. Power metre and trip display, are still there. If they're removed or made basically unusable (as the beta software shows), then it's a fail and Tesla needs to know how strongly owners feel about it.
Yes, Apple made the screen ugly, but they didn't change the major functionality. Toyota dumbed down the interface and made it much less usable. Big differences.
Krugerrand
Meow
I concur. Doing so would make the arguments against less functionality stronger having a basis in reality.
Seems like you aren't happy. 1: Don't think they'll let you refuse software updates forever. 2: You're sure about every single point in your long complaint list is accurate? 3: How much money will Tesla have to pay you if they update your software? I didn't realize there was potential revenue in this.
Other cars don't get software updates like Tesla releases so the interface never changes. Might be considered an advantage by some.
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