How best to contact Tesla about unacceptable changes in "v7" dashboard.

[sowbug]

I think the v.7 dashboard looks ugly and sparse, but I understand why Tesla did it.

Version 7 is the autopilot release. With an autopilot car, you're going to be very tempted to find interesting things to look at, because keeping your car between the lines won't be taking up 70% of your brain anymore. So they're trying to make the main dash as boring and, yes, as useless as possible.

Consider OP's list of things removed. None of them have anything to do with safe driving. Power consumption doesn't. The date, time, and temperature certainly don't. The trip meters don't. The odo doesn't. Then consider what they kept. Speedometer. Surroundings. Battery capacity. Mode (PRND). And then two widgets to minimize the temptation to become even more distracted by fiddling with the touchscreen. All of these are directly relevant to driving or else a heads-up display compromise.

I can just imagine Tesla designers a couple years ago writing two columns on a whiteboard. The left column was the minimum necessary for safe driving. The right was everything else. The left column became Version 7.

Tesla is training people to keep their eyes on the road, while simultaneously taking a great step toward making that unnecessary. It's a mixed message, but we're in a funny time, tech-wise. Ten years from now people will be raging about the steering wheel being removed and replaced with a margarita blender, and some of us old-timers will recall this thread where we debated the loss of the clock.

 

[JST]

All great points. All of this is just increasing my desire to buy an analog car while I still can.

 

[JohnQ]

I think the v.7 dashboard looks ugly and sparse, but I understand why Tesla did it.

Version 7 is the autopilot release. With an autopilot car, you're going to be very tempted to find interesting things to look at, because keeping your car between the lines won't be taking up 70% of your brain anymore. So they're trying to make the main dash as boring and, yes, as useless as possible.

Consider OP's list of things removed. None of them have anything to do with safe driving. Power consumption doesn't. The date, time, and temperature certainly don't. The trip meters don't. The odo doesn't. Then consider what they kept. Speedometer. Surroundings. Battery capacity. Mode (PRND). And then two widgets to minimize the temptation to become even more distracted by fiddling with the touchscreen. All of these are directly relevant to driving or else a heads-up display compromise.

I can just imagine Tesla designers a couple years ago writing two columns on a whiteboard. The left column was the minimum necessary for safe driving. The right was everything else. The left column became Version 7.

Tesla is training people to keep their eyes on the road, while simultaneously taking a great step toward making that unnecessary. It's a mixed message, but we're in a funny time, tech-wise. Ten years from now people will be raging about the steering wheel being removed and replaced with a margarita blender, and some of us old-timers will recall this thread where we debated the loss of the clock.

I would dispute your premise which is anything that doesn't foster "safe driving" should go. Change that to "better driving" and I would agree. Because better driving is holistic. It addresses my need to be more efficient, not just safer. It addresses my need to be smarter, not just safer. And yes, it also allows me to simply be safer. We can argue all day long about exactly what information should be presented, but safety is not the only consideration.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

At the same time I think it's important to recognize that you don't need to experience a new UI to arrive at reasonable conclusions.

For instance, how will experiencing the lack of ambient temp output in 7.0 temper my criticism of the change? I just don't see two ways around it.

My point is simply that flooding [email protected] with UI feedback for an unreleased update may not be the highest and best use of that resource.

 

[apacheguy]

My point is simply that flooding [email protected] with UI feedback for an unreleased update may not be the highest and best use of that resource.

Agree. Haven't sent a single email. But the nature of an Internet forum is that folks will discuss debate and disagree. I think that's all fair game.

 

[gizmoboy]

I think our best chances for keeping the parts of the current UI that we need, like the combined speedometer / power meter, lie in making sure Tesla knows how disappointed we will be if they take it away from us.

On the one hand, I agree with this, though I think your chances of changing the v7.0 UI are very very low.

I agree that information that has been made available should not be taken away in future updates.

I doubt many (possibly anyone) at Tesla would agree to this limitation on their product development capability. Changes must be made, and that may well require removing information that used to be available.

I would hope they listen to a representative sample of customers in deciding what is truly vital and not listen to a vocal minority (in either direction) to the exclusion of the majority, but I think they have to be free to evolve their product as they see fit, just as we as customers are free to vote with our checkbooks.

It's tough because you're driving a computer and future updates are not entirely voluntary, but anyone who's bought into Tesla needs to understand that this is a risk of being an early adopter. (Though I'm not sure this will ever change with a platform like Tesla's, there will be greater inertia as the customer base gets larger.)

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Now, THAT is my suspicion -- that Tesla is beginning to focus on the Model 3 and selling to consumers who Tesla thinks can't deal with much information. If true, it's kind of patronizing, and shows a lack of confidence in Tesla's ability to bring people to a more enlightened approach.

It's the only explanation that I can give credence to in the elimination of so much useful - even vital -- information and the substitution of a very low-information giant car graphic.

My only hope is that there will be a separate version for those of us with pre-AP cars.

That sounds like a "power-userish" perspective. All power users think everything they do is necessary for effective use of the product because it is necessary to how they want to use the product. But power users are always a very small percentage of the user base of a product, though disproportionately vocal.

Many companies have to struggle with the power users' vocal demands to maintain a product that can be used effectively by the broader user base. Some manage a power-user mode or a graceful ramp of complexity that can be revealed in the product like a palimpsest, but many more keep ladling on power-user features (creeping futurities) until the product is impenetrable by new users.

It seems like Tesla is making a move away from a power-user core demographic to a broader user demographic, and the power users are very upset with this, which is both predictable and understandable.

I agree that this may well be a deliberate attempt to move out of an early-adopter/power-user mode into a more mass-market mode.

Most people who drive cars do not want to have to worry about efficient use of regen or squeezing the last mile out of a KwH. They want to drive to the park to pick up Mary from soccer practice and then go to the grocery store to buy ingredients for dinner.

If you aim to be a mass-market product and you are forced to choose between power users and typical users, you can not choose power users and be successful. Ideally you'd figure out a way to embrace both (example: Android or jailbroken iOS) but if you need to choose, then choose the broad demographic (example: iOS or TouchWiz).

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I think the v.7 dashboard looks ugly and sparse, but I understand why Tesla did it.

Version 7 is the autopilot release. With an autopilot car, you're going to be very tempted to find interesting things to look at, because keeping your car between the lines won't be taking up 70% of your brain anymore. So they're trying to make the main dash as boring and, yes, as useless as possible.

Consider OP's list of things removed. None of them have anything to do with safe driving. Power consumption doesn't. The date, time, and temperature certainly don't. The trip meters don't. The odo doesn't. Then consider what they kept. Speedometer. Surroundings. Battery capacity. Mode (PRND). And then two widgets to minimize the temptation to become even more distracted by fiddling with the touchscreen. All of these are directly relevant to driving or else a heads-up display compromise.

I can just imagine Tesla designers a couple years ago writing two columns on a whiteboard. The left column was the minimum necessary for safe driving. The right was everything else. The left column became Version 7.

Tesla is training people to keep their eyes on the road, while simultaneously taking a great step toward making that unnecessary. It's a mixed message, but we're in a funny time, tech-wise. Ten years from now people will be raging about the steering wheel being removed and replaced with a margarita blender, and some of us old-timers will recall this thread where we debated the loss of the clock.

Very well said! And it does frame very well the dilemma for people who like things the way they are.

 

[DMC-Orangeville]

I think the v.7 dashboard looks ugly and sparse, but I understand why Tesla did it.

None of them have anything to do with safe driving. The date, time, and temperature certainly don't.

I would dispute the temperature. Driving in a cold climate, the difference on wet roads between 34F (1C), and 30F (-1C) is a world of difference. Temperatures can drop very quickly at night, and I generally have the outside temperature on the dash. This would mean I would be stuck with "the clock", which is already present elsewhere on the screen....

 

[aja2460]

A couple of things, then my take.

I like most everyone am willing to change, but probably deep down really don't want to.

I remember when about five years ago when Apple changed the way the touchpad in iOS worked. For all of our lives we pushed up on the touchpad with two fingers to make the Page scroll down. A backwards action that we had done forever, so it it was what we were used to. Then one day we woke up and got an update and a new feature was to push up with two fingers to make the page go up (just like it was a piece of paper). Weird, I didn't like it at all. After a day or two or a week or two it became perfectly natural and I can't imagine going back.

When I get a new TV I can't imagine why the new remote did not have the buttons where they should be, like my old one was. Then after a day or two or a week or two, it's natural and going back would feel weird.

I did not buy my Model S because of the specifics of the GUI, but I like it. I expect that when I get my Model X it will have changes to the way that information is displayed and the way I interact with it and after a day or two or a week or two it will be perfectly normal. I'm waiting anxiously to find out.

 

[LetsGoFast]

Has Tesla ever made public comment on GM / JohnDeere's claim that they own the software in your car and you are using it under a license? If it is Tesla's position that you are licensing their software, you may have no right to refuse software updates and they could force it to download on your car without recourse. If a particular software release contains safety related improvements responsive to NHTSA reported defects, they may have an affirmative obligation to install those updates. I have no idea if it is Tesla's position that you are a mere licensee of the car's software or if they plan to fix any safety defects with 7.0, but the answers will affect their willingness to suspend software updates because you don't like the UI and your recourse if they aren't willing.

I do agree that putting your request in writing is your best possible method to accomplish your goals, but I'm dubious about the prospect of Tesla agreeing to give you what you seek.

 

[andydoty]

Agree. Haven't sent a single email. But the nature of an Internet forum is that folks will discuss debate and disagree. I think that's all fair game.

Agreed. Let's not deluge the email address with idle complaints about a "proposed UI" when we really should be using it for critical service issues. It's just going to slow down service requests for legitimate issues.

 

[jerry33]

That sounds like a "power-userish" perspective. All power users think everything they do is necessary for effective use of the product because it is necessary to how they want to use the product. But power users are always a very small percentage of the user base of a product, though disproportionately vocal.

Typically, technology flows down hill from the power users to the masses. If the power users don't like it, the masses aren't going to either.

 

[davidc18]

I have to strongly disagree with your assumption on the removal of data from the IC as it relates to "safe" driving. Otherwise, I completely agree that v7 is going to be a significant and ugly downgrade to the car.

I think the v.7 dashboard looks ugly and sparse, but I understand why Tesla did it.

Version 7 is the autopilot release. With an autopilot car, you're going to be very tempted to find interesting things to look at, because keeping your car between the lines won't be taking up 70% of your brain anymore. So they're trying to make the main dash as boring and, yes, as useless as possible.

Consider OP's list of things removed. None of them have anything to do with safe driving. Power consumption doesn't. The date, time, and temperature certainly don't. The trip meters don't. The odo doesn't. Then consider what they kept. Speedometer. Surroundings. Battery capacity. Mode (PRND). And then two widgets to minimize the temptation to become even more distracted by fiddling with the touchscreen. All of these are directly relevant to driving or else a heads-up display compromise.

I can just imagine Tesla designers a couple years ago writing two columns on a whiteboard. The left column was the minimum necessary for safe driving. The right was everything else. The left column became Version 7.

Tesla is training people to keep their eyes on the road, while simultaneously taking a great step toward making that unnecessary. It's a mixed message, but we're in a funny time, tech-wise. Ten years from now people will be raging about the steering wheel being removed and replaced with a margarita blender, and some of us old-timers will recall this thread where we debated the loss of the clock.

 

[gizmoboy]

Typically, technology flows down hill from the power users to the masses. If the power users don't like it, the masses aren't going to either.

I respectfully disagree with that statement almost 100%. Being a Chief Technology Officer, I feel pretty comfortable with my grasp of software in both the commercial and custom arenas, and with very few exceptions, power users are not the coveted demographic nor the harbingers of success.

Early adopters and power users often conflate, but they are far from the same. Power users can kill your product in the cradle if you aren't careful (vis: Dropbox versus Box.com).

 

[Andyw2100]

I remember when about five years ago when Apple changed the way the touchpad in iOS worked. For all of our lives we pushed up on the touchpad with two fingers to make the Page scroll down. A backwards action that we had done forever, so it it was what we were used to. Then one day we woke up and got an update and a new feature was to push up with two fingers to make the page go up (just like it was a piece of paper). Weird, I didn't like it at all. After a day or two or a week or two it became perfectly natural and I can't imagine going back.

But unless I am mistaken, Apple has provided the option for either method to work. (I don't use iOS, but I recall seeing an option for something like this on my wife's Macbook.) So the people that liked it better the old way are not forced to change.

 

[brec]

I just watched the video linked to above (and here: Exclusief: Test Tesla Model S met software V7! kan de auto zelf rijden? - YouTube).

When the OP said outside temperature and digital clock had been removed, I was sad. But they're both in the available clock on the instrument panel. For what it (my personal opinion) is worth, even if I choose not to have that clock as my normal display, I won't mind having to bring it up temporarily to see the outside temperature. And overall I'm fine with what I saw in the video. I haven't had a long time -- only 820 miles -- to get used to the 6.2 software.

 

[apacheguy]

Relatively simple suggestion. Why not display the current (v6.2) speedometer/power/range dial by default and then transition to the AP interface only when AP is in use? Seems that would keep all camps happy.

 

[perkiset]

But unless I am mistaken, Apple has provided the option for either method to work. (I don't use iOS, but I recall seeing an option for something like this on my wife's Macbook.) So the people that liked it better the old way are not forced to change.

Yes, but really only for that single aspect of control. It's more analogous to Steering (Comfort/Sport) than UI. When the UI changes, you get where' they've moved to, end of story.

 

[neroden]

So, in response to suggestions, I emailed TeslaServiceNA. We'll now see whether Tesla understands how to be a car company or not, I guess.

My thoughts for whatever they're worth:

I think Tesla should take as much time with v7 as necessary. Period. This is a 5700 lb car, not an iPhone. Make it right before you release it.

That, I agree with 100%

Get over the UI. Do you have control over your iPhone UI? No.

That's why I use Android, and I don't update if I don't like the changes. There's no worry about "forced updates" with hardware repairs because a phone's hardware doesn't get repaired; if it breaks, that's it.

How about the alarm system at home? Or thermostat? Solar inverter controller?

In all of these, the UI is fixed at time of purchase.

If you purchased a BMW, Mercedes or Audi, would you be equally as vocal about the UI.

Yes. Iin that case, I would (and do) check it out before buying. When car-shopping with family, we have rejected cars because we didn't like the dashboard layout. Repeatedly.

Once I bought a car, I would know that they weren't going to go in and damage my UI after purchase, because...

Those cars have stationary gauges, dials and knobs.

I think we're losing focus. v7 is not solely about the UI. What about the AP?

Won't work on my car, doesn't have the hardware.

What about torque sleep for non-dual motor vehicles?

Probably won't work on my car, doesn't have the hardware.

What about safety features (collision avoidance, side impact warnings, etc.)? LTE? The REALLY slow browser (even with LTE)? What about other streaming services? In-cabin WiFi?

Purchased the car with none of these features; do not expect any of these features; don't give a damn about any of them.

You are failing to understand the difference between a *new* product and an update for an expensive, already-sold-to-customers *old* product. I want to make sure Tesla understands that difference.

I'm a beta tester for a very large telecommunications company. We are selected as a cross section of the ownership community to provide input with features we like, but primarily test it for basic functionality first and foremost. The court of public opinion is held until after the release.

This is why I am very worried. If Tesla takes that attitude towards beta testing, then I have to complain NOW, or they will release this damage on their customers. If I trusted Tesla to take a very different attitude towards beta testing, one where they actually evaluated customer reaction, then I might wait for the release

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This is kind of the problem. Basically what's wanted is to insure that the components of the UI people want. Power metre and trip display, are still there. If they're removed or made basically unusable (as the beta software shows), then it's a fail and Tesla needs to know how strongly owners feel about it.

What Jerry said.

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It's possible, but it seems unlikely to me because there are pictures of a dumbed down power metre in one of the side panels, so it would be very redundant to have both. The scale was such that it conveyed no useful information. It's painfully obvious that whomever designed it and also the person who approved the design has never actually driven the car more than just around the block (if that).

This is the particularly bad aspect of the beta design. The "analog clock" and "power meter" options really do seem to have been designed by someone who's never actually used the car, or at least who's never used the power meter or the clock. The original (current) design was designed by very smart people who knew how we used the car.

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I always thought the dial style speedometer was a waste of space, just give me the current speed.

It marks the cruise control setting. That's what the dial-style speedometer does and that's the only reason it's useful -- but it's an important function.

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I doubt many (possibly anyone) at Tesla would agree to this limitation on their product development capability.

Everyone at Tesla is absolutely required to agree to this very simple limitation (do not remove information displayed in existing, already-sold cars)

They agreed to this limitation when they started selling cars.

They can do whatever they like with cars they haven't delivered yet. This is *strictly* about cars which have *already been purchased*.

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Pretty much my feelings exactly. They've taken a well-designed gauge and scattered its components all over the screen.... I'm not too excited to have to use one of my side locations to get information that should be front and center, especially when it's being displaced for a diagram that serves no purpose (to my vehicle without Autopilot). If we're lucky, I suppose, perhaps classic vehicles will have the option to retain the old layout.

Part of the reasons that sold me on LCDs-as-instrument-clusters during my test drive was that superbly-designed gauge. Shame to see it tossed.

This. My car purchase was in fact made after evaluating the gauge. I would consider it to be an act of vandalism to my car to destroy it. Seriously.

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Relatively simple suggestion. Why not display the current (v6.2) speedometer/power/range dial by default and then transition to the AP interface only when AP is in use? Seems that would keep all camps happy.

Sure. Since my car will never get autopilot due to lack of hardware... no problem.

 

[HankLloydRight]

What about torque sleep for non-dual motor vehicles?

Probably won't work on my car, doesn't have the hardware.

You don't have a motor?

One of the updates indicated for v7 is new torque sleep code for single motor cars to totally cut power to the motor when it's idle, resulting in some level of energy savings. This would apply to all "non-dual motor" cars.

*But in general, I agree with your overall position.

 

[stevem]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but when I bought my Tesla I knew that they would be making changes and pushing updates to my car (hopefully) for the life of the car. I wasn't buying a static thing, I was buying a platform that would evolve over time. Adding features, changing the UI... whatever. Did I think it was going to be fixed? No, if I wanted a car to remain unchanged, I would have bought a BMW, or Mercedes. Will it's UI or feature set remain fixed throughout the time I own it? No, but I knew that going in. Will I like the changes? Maybe. Maybe not. But I bought this car knowing that it will change over time. I like that better than it being fixed and what you bought it all you will ever get.

And as for more information is always better? Not always. I was shocked at the statistic that when they add those "countdown timers" at intersections so drivers know when the light will turn red/yellow, the accident rate at those intersections goes up.