Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

How can we afford to drive our Teslas anymore? Gas prices are so high!

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
  • Disagree
Reactions: glide
I just got my new MYLR, but I can't do any driving these days because Putin has limited oil production, driving gas prices up.
So, I can no longer afford to drive my car and ...

...oh wait, I forgot, I don't need gas to drive anymore.

-Heheheheheheheh. (SnarkyEmoji SnarkyEmoji SnarkyEmoji)

Russia to cut oil output by 500000 bpd in March - Reutershttps://www.reuters.com › business › energy › russia-cut-...
I guess you haven’t noticed the direction electricity prices are headed.

In many places, it is more expensive to drive a Tesla than a gas vehicle. Total cost of ownership aside, just the fuel costs are higher. Sooooo…I wouldn’t be so snarky about your newfound electric lifestyle.
 
I guess you haven’t noticed the direction electricity prices are headed.

In many places, it is more expensive to drive a Tesla than a gas vehicle. Total cost of ownership aside, just the fuel costs are higher. Sooooo…I wouldn’t be so snarky about your newfound electric lifestyle.
Just the fact that there are alternative ways to get electricity warrants a little bit of snarkiness.
 
Please name a single, practical way to get free electricity that presents no massive up-front cost. I have been looking for one.

As long as you remove your ridiculous self-entitled caveats about expecting it to also be free and for someone else to invest in it up front for you (any idea how much it costs to prospect for oil, drill an oil well, pump it, pipe or haul it, build a refinery, build a gas station, deliver the fuel, . . . ?):
Solar (PV), wind, propane (generator), hydro, biomass, ag waste digester, natural gas, . . .
Of these, solar is the most readily available to most people and if financed carefully (HELOC or fold into mortgage), can pay for itself immediately. Even without creative financing, depending on how fast you want to charge your car, its either much much cheaper or just cheaper than the car you want to charge.
 
As long as you remove your ridiculous self-entitled caveats about expecting it to also be free and for someone else to invest in it up front for you (any idea how much it costs to prospect for oil, drill an oil well, pump it, pipe or haul it, build a refinery, build a gas station, deliver the fuel, . . . ?):
Solar (PV), wind, propane (generator), hydro, biomass, ag waste digester, natural gas, . . .
Of these, solar is the most readily available to most people and if financed carefully (HELOC or fold into mortgage), can pay for itself immediately. Even without creative financing, depending on how fast you want to charge your car, its either much much cheaper or just cheaper than the car you want to charge.
Right. I knew you would say solar. So what is the cost for a solar install that will charge your Tesla such that it is usable and drivable on a daily basis? It’s not free no matter how you try and justify it.

Doesn’t seem like that snark is able to hold up to the reality of costs associated with a fuel source
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: Sandor
Right. I knew you would say solar. So what is the cost for a solar install that will charge your Tesla such that it is usable and drivable on a daily basis? It’s not free no matter how you try and justify it.

Doesn’t seem like that snark is able to hold up to the reality of costs associated with a fuel source
Why must it be free?
If free is your baseline, that is unreasonable and there's no need for me to waste further time here.
 
Why must it be free?
If free is your baseline, that is unreasonable and there's no need for me to waste further time here.
It doesn’t have to be free. A solar system costs around $20K.

How does that premium, coupled with an EV purchase price premium, make it more affordable to drive an electric car over an ICE? It doesn’t.

You and OP just want to be in the snarky-smug club, becuz Tesla.
 
It doesn’t have to be free. A solar system costs around $20K.

How does that premium, coupled with an EV purchase price premium, make it more affordable to drive an electric car over an ICE? It doesn’t.

You and OP just want to be in the snarky-smug club, becuz Tesla.
It doesn't have to be a Tesla. I'm all for any EV (even PHEVs). Teslas are just the best and the forcing function for the rest.
That $20K will supply electricity for much more than just an EV. It will do so for 25 years minimum (warranty length) and the price will never increase (although they may start charging you more for other things).
That $20,000 is the price of 4,000 gallons of gasoline (at $5/gal) which can get you 120,000 miles (at 30 mpg).
That same $20K is the price of about a 6 Kw PV system which can produce about 27 KWh per day. At 4 mi/KWh, that will get you 108 miles per day. After 25 years, that will get you about 1 million miles. That is 10X cheaper than gasoline.
Don't like my numbers? Divide by 2 and PV is still a bargain.
Its always sad when I hear folks whine about the price of gas as if it is something they have to have.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BelugaWhale
It doesn't have to be a Tesla. I'm all for any EV (even PHEVs). Teslas are just the best and the forcing function for the rest.
That $20K will supply electricity for much more than just an EV. It will do so for 25 years minimum (warranty length) and the price will never increase (although they may start charging you more for other things).
That $20,000 is the price of 4,000 gallons of gasoline (at $5/gal) which can get you 120,000 miles (at 30 mpg).
That same $20K is the price of about a 6 Kw PV system which can produce about 27 KWh per day. At 4 mi/KWh, that will get you 108 miles per day. After 25 years, that will get you about 1 million miles. That is 10X cheaper than gasoline.
Don't like my numbers? Divide by 2 and PV is still a bargain.
Its always sad when I hear folks whine about the price of gas as if it is something they have to have.
You clearly don’t get it because of the privileged position you are in.

97% of the country cannot afford a $50K+ EV nor the $20K+ solar system required to charge it, nor the $300K+ property ownehship entry point to facilitate the solar system.

Get it yet? Owning and driving an ICE vehicle is simply less expensive any way you slice it. And yes; some people HAVE to have gas because of the barriers (plural) to entry.
 
  • Like
  • Disagree
Reactions: Sandor and AMPd
Purpose of Solar is not to make charging a car free, but to make it less costly.

I purchased a $9,000 Tesla Solar system (net costs after Tax Credits, Utility and State rebates $5,800) that covers my electricity costs for the year. 3.2 year payoff for me.

Thinking that electricity costs will continue to rise, I can purchase a 25 year supply of electricity for a one time payment. Had the option to finance it to spread the costs, but had savings not earning much so I decided to funnel into cash purchase.

Being in Socal, where electricity is expensive and abundant year round sunshine made my decision relatively easy.

Last full year, my annual Edison settle up is -$16.85.

Each consumer must consider their own circumstances. If you live in an area where electicity is relatively inexpensive Hydro (Like Florida), or where little year round Sunshine is available (Maine) Solar is probably not going to pencil out.

This does not make Solar financially right or wrong, but each individual should take into consideration the costs of charging, compared to gas or other alternatives for their own personal transportation.

Free Supercharging for life, free charging at work, free community charging, plugging into a free socket in your car park, etc all can swing the finances into your favor.

Bonus is if you can charge easily in your garage at night, when costs are low and there is abundant electricity in your grid. It is a fantastic feeling to start out each morning with enough juice for your daily needs. Not needing to routinely visit nasty gas stations, deal with oil changes, tune ups, muffler replacements, wait in long lines to get gas a few cents cheaper at your local Costco/Walmart, deal with annoying dealerships and greedy auto sales people, can make choosing an EV pleasant. Knowing that you are no longer spewing noxious and unhealthy exhaust fumes into your atmosphere can also be rewarding.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BelugaWhale
You clearly don’t get it because of the privileged position you are in.
I fully get it because I'm only in the privileged position I'm in for reasons I understand. I wasn't always it this position. One of the reasons we bought a Roadster was because the stock market had been very good to my company and I had stock options. We realized that if we, who understood the importance and had the means at the time, didn't buy one to jump start the path to sustainable transportation, who would?
History has shown that decision to have been spot on.

97% of the country cannot afford a $50K+ EV nor the $20K+ solar system required to charge it, nor the $300K+ property ownehship entry point to facilitate the solar system.
We pretty much agree here. A lot of people can't or shouldn't pay that much for a car or PV.
- New technology don't start out cheap. We've seen that with computers, cellphones, TVs, stereos, phonographs, cars, internet connection, etc. It takes forcing functions to drive the sales volumes to achieve the necessary economies of scale to make them more affordable so the masses can benefit from them.
I think the difference is our approach to dealing with it.
- If folks who can afford a $50K EV + PV don't do so, there never will be a $20K EV (see explanation below).
- As far as the PV goes, the labor is a big part of it's cost and that's tougher to deal with. The only way to make it much cheaper is to pay the labor less which, of course, means more people who can't afford it. One must be smarter here since brute force won't work and, while financially beneficial, the payoff is slow. This is why I point out how, because it provides cheaper electricity, with creative financing, homeowners with long-term views can easily do it. Although it is a lot slower and more complicated, renters can do it as well if they bias their searches for places with PV. Because of the desire by most investors (upon whom they depend) for quick returns on their investments it will take a lot longer for them than homeowners.

I agree somewhat about the 97% (we disagree in that I believe it is more like 75% that can't and 80% of those who can won't because they'd prefer to get the latest bigger-screen TV or a new, expensive luxury ICE every few years) can't afford an ICE car

Owning and driving an ICE vehicle is simply less expensive any way you slice it. And yes; some people HAVE to have gas because of the barriers (plural) to entry.
We agree here too. Just, perhaps not on the number who HAVE to, the ramifications toward the future, and how to break down those barriers or how high they are to how many.
Unfortunately, if you look at the future: owning and driving an ICE vehicle is and will continue to get more expensive. At some point in the not-too-distant future that 75% (or your 97%) will be in very bad shape.
Rather than defeatedly saying nothing will change, as you seem to prefer, I prefer to look for a solution. There are solutions and I'm trying to share them. Perhaps a few more who can, will buy an EV instead of an expensive Lexus, BMW, Audi, or MBZ ICE.
If those who can afford EVs and PV do, prices will decrease, enabling more to be able to afford them, just decreasing prices further. To speed up the process (or maybe even make it happen in time) it will (or did) take compelling cars that will motivate folks that 80% who wouldn't be willing to give up other things in order to do so, to do so. As EV and PV prices decrease, that 75% (or your 97%) will decrease, prices will decrease further, thus enabling even more to afford EVs.
This is a virtuous cycle that certainly beats giving up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BelugaWhale
I fully get it because I'm only in the privileged position I'm in for reasons I understand. I wasn't always it this position. One of the reasons we bought a Roadster was because the stock market had been very good to my company and I had stock options. We realized that if we, who understood the importance and had the means at the time, didn't buy one to jump start the path to sustainable transportation, who would?
History has shown that decision to have been spot on.


We pretty much agree here. A lot of people can't or shouldn't pay that much for a car or PV.
- New technology don't start out cheap. We've seen that with computers, cellphones, TVs, stereos, phonographs, cars, internet connection, etc. It takes forcing functions to drive the sales volumes to achieve the necessary economies of scale to make them more affordable so the masses can benefit from them.
I think the difference is our approach to dealing with it.
- If folks who can afford a $50K EV + PV don't do so, there never will be a $20K EV (see explanation below).
- As far as the PV goes, the labor is a big part of it's cost and that's tougher to deal with. The only way to make it much cheaper is to pay the labor less which, of course, means more people who can't afford it. One must be smarter here since brute force won't work and, while financially beneficial, the payoff is slow. This is why I point out how, because it provides cheaper electricity, with creative financing, homeowners with long-term views can easily do it. Although it is a lot slower and more complicated, renters can do it as well if they bias their searches for places with PV. Because of the desire by most investors (upon whom they depend) for quick returns on their investments it will take a lot longer for them than homeowners.

I agree somewhat about the 97% (we disagree in that I believe it is more like 75% that can't and 80% of those who can won't because they'd prefer to get the latest bigger-screen TV or a new, expensive luxury ICE every few years) can't afford an ICE car


We agree here too. Just, perhaps not on the number who HAVE to, the ramifications toward the future, and how to break down those barriers or how high they are to how many.
Unfortunately, if you look at the future: owning and driving an ICE vehicle is and will continue to get more expensive. At some point in the not-too-distant future that 75% (or your 97%) will be in very bad shape.
Rather than defeatedly saying nothing will change, as you seem to prefer, I prefer to look for a solution. There are solutions and I'm trying to share them. Perhaps a few more who can, will buy an EV instead of an expensive Lexus, BMW, Audi, or MBZ ICE.
If those who can afford EVs and PV do, prices will decrease, enabling more to be able to afford them, just decreasing prices further. To speed up the process (or maybe even make it happen in time) it will (or did) take compelling cars that will motivate folks that 80% who wouldn't be willing to give up other things in order to do so, to do so. As EV and PV prices decrease, that 75% (or your 97%) will decrease, prices will decrease further, thus enabling even more to afford EVs.
This is a virtuous cycle that certainly beats giving up.
I stopped reading when you said you weren’t always privileged but also bought a roadster.
 
I guess you haven’t noticed the direction electricity prices are headed.

In many places, it is more expensive to drive a Tesla than a gas vehicle. Total cost of ownership aside, just the fuel costs are higher. Sooooo…I wouldn’t be so snarky about your newfound electric lifestyle.
Unless you rely entirely on Superchargers in which case fuel costs are similar, where are just fuel costs higher for a Tesla vs a comparable gas vehicle. Most EV owners charge at home most of the time, where fuel costs alone are 50%-75% lower in most actual cases I am aware of, including where I live. There sure are a lot of EV owners who are lying about their fuel costs I guess...
 
Unless you rely entirely on Superchargers in which case fuel costs are similar, where are just fuel costs higher for a Tesla vs a comparable gas vehicle. Most EV owners charge at home most of the time, where fuel costs alone are 50%-75% lower in most actual cases I am aware of, including where I live. There sure are a lot of EV owners who are lying about their fuel costs I guess...
Superchargers (where I live) are .35/kWH off-peak.

Electric costs are .23/kWH and that does not include delivery charges. So they are effectively the same.

That, coupled with things like phantom drain and weather means EV charging costs more than gas.

Add to that equation the cost of an EV vs. ICE vehicle then add the cost of having a home charger installed (assuming one owns their home) and you are well above the cost to drive an ICE vehicle.

No matter how much you want to fudge the numbers to justify your bias, EVs are simply more expensive to drive.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: Sandor
Superchargers (where I live) are .35/kWH off-peak.

Electric costs are .23/kWH and that does not include delivery charges. So they are effectively the same.

That, coupled with things like phantom drain and weather means EV charging costs more than gas.

Add to that equation the cost of an EV vs. ICE vehicle then add the cost of having a home charger installed (assuming one owns their home) and you are well above the cost to drive an ICE vehicle.

No matter how much you want to fudge the numbers to justify your bias, EVs are simply more expensive to drive.
The average residential electricity rate in the U.S. is now up to 15.64 cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh) (State electric prices last updated February 14, 2023). So $0.23/kWh plus delivery charges is not applicable to many owners. Electricity Rates by State (February 2023) | ChooseEnergy.com®

And I replied to your original statement “Total cost of ownership aside, just the fuel costs are higher.” Now you're changing your position to include costs other than fuel, so you realize you were wrong, that‘s progress. There are plenty of actual comparisons of total life cycle costs, you might read a couple…
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: glide