How choose your charger?

[tga]

What would I be looking for in terms of wire (size?) and breaker?

You need to figure out which breaker controls the outlet, then determine the wire gauge, probably by opening up the outlet box and breaker panel and measuring. Ideally, you want 6 ga for a 50A breaker (charging at 40A, always 80% of the breaker max). Depending on the type of wire, 8 ga could work, if the whole run is in conduit. If the wire is too small, you can either (a) replace the breaker and outlet with a smaller one to match your wire, or (b) upgrade to heavier wire. Again, if it's conduit the whole way to the panel, and it's big enough, pulling new wire should be easy.

You need to get an electrician involved. To do it right, there's non-trivial stuff here (conduit fill calculations, etc) that you should leave to a pro, unless you really know what you're doing.

 

[grashelm]

You need to figure out which breaker controls the outlet, then determine the wire gauge, probably by opening up the outlet box and breaker panel and measuring. Ideally, you want 6 ga for a 50A breaker (charging at 40A, always 80% of the breaker max). Depending on the type of wire, 8 ga could work, if the whole run is in conduit. If the wire is too small, you can either (a) replace the breaker and outlet with a smaller one to match your wire, or (b) upgrade to heavier wire. Again, if it's conduit the whole way to the panel, and it's big enough, pulling new wire should be easy.

You need to get an electrician involved. To do it right, there's non-trivial stuff here (conduit fill calculations, etc) that you should leave to a pro, unless you really know what you're doing.

Thanks - appreciate your advice and will call my electrician to have him evaluate.

 

[03DSG]

Under 150' use 6/3 amg wire. God for up to a 60 amp breaker.

 

[03DSG]

6/3 AWG will handle up to a 60 amp breaker (charging at 48 amps) up to a 150' run. Longer than that requires an upsize. Like 4/3.

 

[brkaus]

Is there a way to tell what kind of outlet I have by looking at the plug? My elec panel is old and labels are worn out - not sure where this plug is on the panel. When I bought the house, it came with this arc welder in the garage and this is the plug it uses.

View attachment 243062 View attachment 243063

It is a NEMA 6-50. It may support 40A continuous, may support 32A continuous. It really depends The one at my parents house is a 40A breaker. The wire jacket is stripped so I haven't been able to find the wire guage. So I plan on limiting the current to 30A when I visit.

Do you have any 50A breakers in your panel? If not, then you shouldn't be using it at 40A. If you have 50A breakers, then you will need to do some detective work.

If you want to use it and be "mostly" safe (I say mostly, because you have extra connections)... You can use a NEMA 6-50 -> 14-50 adaptor from evseadapters.com and then get a Canadian version of the 14-50 from Tesla, which limits the current to 32. This would be 100% appropriate for a 40A circuit.

I'd get an electrician to check to be sure, esp if your not familiar with electrical work.

 

[03DSG]

brkaus, It's not the 14-50 that's limited to a 40 amp breaker, 32 amp charge, in Canada. It's code. Code in Canada is max 40 amp breaker for a 14-50.

 

[brkaus]

brkaus, It's not the 14-50 that's limited to a 40 amp breaker, 32 amp charge, in Canada. It's code. Code in Canada is max 40 amp breaker for a 14-50.

Thank you for the clarification. I knew it was code. I didn't realize the breaker size was 40a.

 

[03DSG]

Thank you for the clarification. I knew it was code. I didn't realize the breaker size was 40a.

US code for a 14-50 is up to a 50amp breaker to charge at 40 amps (80%). Same outlet, same wire. My electrician shakes his head at it. I have a 14-50 going in on a 40 amp breaker and 6/3 tech wire. Makes me ready for the car. Once I get if I'll order the Tesla wall charger and have it installed with a 60 amp breaker to be able to take advantage of the 48 amp charger on the LR. $1000 grant from Ontario govt for charger and install. Without the grant I would just use the 14-50 on the 40 amp breaker.

 

[PRSIST]

I want the max to my car, 48 amps. So I will need a 60 amp breaker. If I understand all the chatter that's been going on, the 14-50 won't cut it since it is geared to a 50 amp breaker. The EV power program my electric provider has permits much cheaper charging rates for six hours at night. To put 200 miles on my car at 25 miles per hour (40 amp speed), I'm looking at 8 hours of charging...outside my cheaper electric rates. To put 200 miles on my car at 32 miles per hour (48 amps speed), I'm looking at somewhere around 6-6.5 hours which is within or very close to being within my cheaper rates.

Everybody has to determine their own circumstances, but I will probably go with the Wall Connector and use a 60 amp circuit.

 

[TexasEV]

I want the max to my car, 48 amps. So I will need a 60 amp breaker. If I understand all the chatter that's been going on, the 14-50 won't cut it since it is geared to a 50 amp breaker. The EV power program my electric provider has permits much cheaper charging rates for six hours at night. To put 200 miles on my car at 25 miles per hour (40 amp speed), I'm looking at 8 hours of charging...outside my cheaper electric rates. To put 200 miles on my car at 32 miles per hour (48 amps speed), I'm looking at somewhere around 6-6.5 hours which is within or very close to being within my cheaper rates.

Everybody has to determine their own circumstances, but I will probably go with the Wall Connector and use a 60 amp circuit.

How often do you need to charge 200 miles overnight? If it's infrequent, it's probably worth paying the higher rate for the two hours on a 14-50 compared to buying a HPWC.

 

[boaterva]

FlasherZ's FAQ is in my sig, for anyone that wants quick access to it. A lot of the options Tesla has are for those that want to charge more quickly (HPWCs), or handle two cars on a larger single circuit (multiple HPWC). For one smaller charger (the ones in the Model 3) and overnight charging, the 14-50 or even smaller circuits with the right adaper definitely is sufficient. Everyone's use case can be different.

 

[israndy]

How often do you need to charge 200 miles overnight? If it's infrequent, it's probably worth paying the higher rate for the two hours on a 14-50 compared to buying a HPWC.

Will the portable charger that comes with the car actually do 48 amps?

Actually, I thought the plug itself wouldn't do that much. Don't you need to hardwire the charger if you are going that high? If I am hooking a HPWC I believe I NEED to wire it directly to the 6 gauge right? I can't just plug that into a NEMA 14-50.

Or was that just for the MS and MX that can pull 80 amps. Is there a way on the HPWC to tell it that it's hooked to a 48 amp circuit so that when my MS owning friend comes over he doesn't blow my fuse trying to charge full power...?

-Randy

 

[AlanSqB]

Will the portable charger that comes with the car actually do 48 amps?

Is there a way on the HPWC to tell it that it's hooked to a 48 amp circuit so that when my MS owning friend comes over he doesn't blow my fuse trying to charge full power...?

No, the one that comes with it is going to be limited to 40a due to the plug.

The HPWC has a little dial that can be set to the max allowable amps. It tells the "control pilot" wire what to advertise to the car as a maximum allowed current by Pulse Width Modulation. SAE J1772 - Wikipedia So, set this dial to 48 and the car charger on any connected vehicle should "behave" and limit itself to that rate.

Finally, you can use a range cord to turn a HPWC into a "plug-in" device. It's not recommended by Tesla, but lots of folks have done it. In your case, you're going to want to hard wire as you said.

I'm an EVSE nerd. But admitting it is very therapeutic.

 

[Jason Bourne]

Another thing folks might consider is installing a 14-30 instead of a 14-50. A 14-30 uses much thinner wire and it will work with many more existing panels while still being good enough for almost everyone, especially those that don't buy the LR. Tesla says a 14-30 will provide 15-17 miles of range per hour for an S/X, so assume 17-20 for a 3. This will charge a 220 mile 3 to 100% overnight unless it's at 0% when you get home or you have a very short "overnight".

Great point...

The 14-30 plug looks similar to a 14-50. Does that mean you could use the 14-50 plug attachment on the UMC in a 14-30 outlet? Is the wiring a 14-30 outlet would need thicker than average outlet wire, correct (since an average outlet is 15 or maybe 20 amps)? But is your point that if your panel is rated for 100 amps and would not be able to accommodate 50 additional amps, it might be able to accommodate 30 extra amps so it would not have to be upgraded and that expense is spared?

 

[SpiceWare]

Great point...

The 14-30 plug looks similar to a 14-50. Does that mean you could use the 14-50 plug attachment on the UMC in a 14-30 outlet?

It won't fit. If you want to use that you should get the 14-30 NEMA Adapter (select it from the drop down).

 

[TQCLove]

I've gotten a quote for a single NEMA 14-50 to be installed in my garage, I had asked to get a quote for 2. In the details, the electrician states that my 200 amp panel is not sufficient for 2 outlets and he'd have to bump me to 400. The quote for the 1 outlet is $1750, and the electrician said it would "double" if I wanted the 2.
I don't think I'd need the 400 but I don't know electrical and wanted to come ask here for feedback/advice/opinions.

I have an electric drier and A/C, range is gas, no hot tub, etc. Panel is 200, I'll be getting a Model 3 and charging at home, my wife is getting a Model S and ideally will use the local SC, but I want her to be able to plug in/charge at home as well, like when weather is bad. Sharing is on the table, though I'd prefer the two outlets. Do I not have enough juice?

Thanks for any feedback, and sorry if I posted in the wrong thread...I did a few searches, but I admit my patience for reading page after page just caused me to want to simply type up my own question and post.

Edit: Model 3 will be LR, Model S will be 75D (if that makes a difference). Thank you.

 

[MosquitoFloss]

I've gotten a quote for a single NEMA 14-50 to be installed in my garage, I had asked to get a quote for 2. In the details, the electrician states that my 200 amp panel is not sufficient for 2 outlets and he'd have to bump me to 400. The quote for the 1 outlet is $1750, and the electrician said it would "double" if I wanted the 2.
I don't think I'd need the 400 but I don't know electrical and wanted to come ask here for feedback/advice/opinions.

I have an electric drier and A/C, range is gas, no hot tub, etc. Panel is 200, I'll be getting a Model 3 and charging at home, my wife is getting a Model S and ideally will use the local SC, but I want her to be able to plug in/charge at home as well, like when weather is bad. Sharing is on the table, though I'd prefer the two outlets. Do I not have enough juice?

Thanks for any feedback, and sorry if I posted in the wrong thread...I did a few searches, but I admit my patience for reading page after page just caused me to want to simply type up my own question and post.

Edit: Model 3 will be LR, Model S will be 75D (if that makes a difference). Thank you.

Well your quote was better than mine.... I just got a quote to run 70amps to my garage with a sub panel installed in garage and a Nema 14-50 outlet. Approx 50' of trenching to run the line... $5400! Lining up some other quotes now. Glad I'm not waiting til the last min. This is more expensive than I was imagining.

 

[Runt8]

I've gotten a quote for a single NEMA 14-50 to be installed in my garage, I had asked to get a quote for 2. In the details, the electrician states that my 200 amp panel is not sufficient for 2 outlets and he'd have to bump me to 400. The quote for the 1 outlet is $1750, and the electrician said it would "double" if I wanted the 2.
I don't think I'd need the 400 but I don't know electrical and wanted to come ask here for feedback/advice/opinions.

I have an electric drier and A/C, range is gas, no hot tub, etc. Panel is 200, I'll be getting a Model 3 and charging at home, my wife is getting a Model S and ideally will use the local SC, but I want her to be able to plug in/charge at home as well, like when weather is bad. Sharing is on the table, though I'd prefer the two outlets. Do I not have enough juice?

Thanks for any feedback, and sorry if I posted in the wrong thread...I did a few searches, but I admit my patience for reading page after page just caused me to want to simply type up my own question and post.

Edit: Model 3 will be LR, Model S will be 75D (if that makes a difference). Thank you.

$1750 for one outlet is absurdly high unless you have a very complicated install. I was quoted $470 to install a single HPWC on a 60A circuit. That includes reorganizing the circuit breakers to create more space and running 50' of conduit and 6-3 wire (including all materials). Most estimates I've seen on this board are between $500 and $1000. Again, it all depends on the difficulty of the installation.

I have electric range, drier, and A/C, and my electrician estimated my demand load at 105 amps. One additional circuit was no problem, 2 would be pushing it. If I were to get two Tesla's I would two HPWCs on one shared circuit.

 

[ohmman]

I have electric range, drier, and A/C, and my electrician estimated my demand load at 105 amps. One additional circuit was no problem, 2 would be pushing it. If I were to get two Tesla's I would install one shared circuit using two HPWC.

I assumed I would do something similar, but we found that we can just alternate the single HPWC. Obviously commutes and lifestyles differ, but it's an extremely rare day when my wife and I would each use over 200 miles on our cars.

 

[gregincal]

It won't fit. If you want to use that you should get the 14-30 NEMA Adapter (select it from the drop down).

Actually, those are for Model S/X. The Model 3 has a new UMC with new adapters. Also, the new UMC will only charge at 32 amps on a 14-50.