How does Tesla figure the payload and towing?

[Brekfst]

I’m curious about this as their numbers seem way off.

on a standard truck your pay load and towing is based on your vehicles GVRW. As an example a low end truck can actually have a vastly higher payload and towing than a higher end higher power truck.

I would assume that the body will be exactly the same across all 3. I would also assume it will have the same air suspension system in each and I would also assume the same GVRW.

So I’m curious how they are figuring their payloads and towing as normally the only thing that affects it is the addition off more accessories as these are part of your GVW. It can’t be motor size as the 2 motor 4WD will have as much power as a 3.5 ecoboost yet vastly less capacity yet you jump up to the 3 motor and it adds extra payload and towing on the same body.

 

[destructure00]

Go play with the 1/2 ton Silverado configurator online. You'll get several different tow ratings on the same chassis depending on which engine you pick.

Probably the chassis is rated at the highest number, and they derate for lower power drivetrains.

 

[Brekfst]

That’s what I’m not getting here with the payloads. The stock trucks have a high payload and towing no matter the engine size. What affects the payload and towing is the options on the truck.

as an example you add the bigger engine you are negative so many lbs

you add 4x4 you have even less payload and towing

you add supercrew and you have less towing and payload

my Truck was advertised as having a 3500 payload but in reality it actually had a 900lb payload.

This is why I’m not sure how Tesla is figuring this and their numbers seem off. They seem to be working in the opposite direction as the other truck makers. They are adding more weight in extra options but at the same time adding more payload and towing. Will these things end up with a GVWR the same as a 1ton when all said and done as that’s the governing factor here.

 

[mongo]

@Brekfst
Towing capacity is based on engine power and braking ability (plus curb weight effect).
The base frame and drive unit can handle 3500 pound or so of payload. They likely have additional capacity beyond that which is why the added weight of the additional drive units and pack does not impact the payload number.
Towing tongue weight decreases available payload weight. The additional towing is due to the increased drive unit power (and potentially increased regen, but I don't think they would rely on that). Added vehicle mass also helps in a towing situation.

 

[Brekfst]

No it’s not. It’s based on your GVWR. Has nothing to do with engine power or braking ability. If that was the case my F150 would have the full 3500 lbs seeings as I have the most powerful engine and the trailer tow package with extra leaf springs and bigger brakes but I have 900lbs. That 900lbs includes the passengers too so with 5 people in my truck I have about 400lb of max payload before I’m illegal to be on the road and around 4000lb of towing.

ignore what the build page says when you build your truck. I was caught out by that too as are the vast majority of truck buyers. Even the dealer I bought my truck from had no idea that it would have such a low payload when optioning it out. Without the trailer tow package my payload would have been 750lbs in a truck advertised as 3500lbs. There’s a door sticker in every truck stating your max payload too. You would be shocked at how low some are.

But as I say how are Tesla adding more weight with more motors, bigger battery, 4x4 capability yet payload increases. It does the opposite with all other companies.

the only way I think they can do it is if the GVWR is more than a standard 1/2” it has to be getting into 1ton with the capability’s they say it’s gonna have. My 1/2 ton Truck already close to 7000lb with me in it and no cargo. The Cyber truck got to be getting into 8000lb at least then they say you can put another 3500lb in the bed. That’s 11500lb minimum GVWR it would need. A 3/4 ton is not even rated for that.

 

[mongo]

No it’s not. It’s based on your GVWR. Has nothing to do with engine power or braking ability.

The GVWR number is created by the manufacturer based on engine, brakes, frame, and suspension.
Towing capacity is determined by the manufacturer based primarily on engine and brakes (acceleration and stopping distance requirements).

But as I say how are Tesla adding more weight with more motors, bigger battery, 4x4 capability yet payload increases. It does the opposite with all other companies.

There is no requirement for the OEM to provide the maximum possible value for the GVWR. Only requirement is in 49 CFR 567.4(g)(3)

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating” or “GVWR” followed by the appropriate value in pounds, which shall not be less than the sum of the unloaded vehicle weight, rated cargo load, and 150 pounds times the number of the vehicle's designated seating positions. However, for school buses the minimum occupant weight allowance shall be 120 pounds per passenger and 150 pounds for the driver.

Tesla is fully able to under specify the single motor small pack version to the same 3,500 as the trimotor large pack version. Tesla has air shocks and adjustable dampers which remove the fixed spring limitations.
As to Ford, they may limit the payload to allow for a softer ride with less stiff spring/ shocks.

 

[Brekfst]

Like I already said. If it really was to do with engine, suspension, brakes and frame then shouldn’t I have the biggest payload and towing capacity f150 on the market?

The only way ford was able to increase the payload and towing on the new f150 was no go with alloy. They used the same engines, brakes and suspension. The wait saved went into the extra payload. If it was as simple as just adding more leafs, bigger engine and brakes wouldn’t that be what they were all doing. My mates Chevy has the same sticker in his.

Top sticker says gvwr 7200lb then in the sticker under it it says cargo and passengers should not exceed 900lbs. This was bought under the impression that it had a 3500lb payload capacity. But I then found out if I went for a more basic lighter weight version any weight saved would be added to my payload.

it’s the same for all truck builders. Check for yourself.

if that truck was a ford, Chevy or dodge the 2wd, lighter weight model would have the higher capacity’s for payload and towing.

Unless of course they some how increased the standard gvrw allowed on a half ton.

 

[ricohman]

The GVWR number is created by the manufacturer based on engine, brakes, frame, and suspension.
Towing capacity is determined by the manufacturer based primarily on engine and brakes (acceleration and stopping distance requirements).


There is no requirement for the OEM to provide the maximum possible value for the GVWR. Only requirement is in 49 CFR 567.4(g)(3)

Tesla is fully able to under specify the single motor small pack version to the same 3,500 as the trimotor large pack version. Tesla has air shocks and adjustable dampers which remove the fixed spring limitations.
As to Ford, they may limit the payload to allow for a softer ride with less stiff spring/ shocks.

There will be no 3500 lb payload without dual rear wheels. When you add then weight of this truck (8000 lb?) occupants and a 3500 lb payload you are well into G rated 19.5 tires. Well beyond the typical F rated DRW tires and certainly beyond a typical 1 ton SRW E rated tire.

 

[mongo]

Unless of course they some how increased the standard gvrw allowed on a half ton.

There are no regulations regarding GVWR and half, 3/4, one ton classification (which isn't an official classification anyway)
Ford may well be at the limits of what their combination can do. Tesla is likely under rating the single and dual motor variants.

 

[mongo]

There will be no 3500 lb payload without dual rear wheels. When you add then weight of this truck (8000 lb?) occupants and a 3500 lb payload you are well into G rated 19.5 tires. Well beyond the typical F rated DRW tires and certainly beyond a typical 1 ton SRW E rated tire.

From the reveal event, Elon said the truck wights the same as an F-150, so sub 6,000 lbs. Say 6,500 (1,000 more than an X). With the pack in the front, 6 passengers @ 150 in the middle, and 2,600 lb in the vault, it would come in at just under 10,000 lbs (threshold for a lot of regulations) and be near 50/50 weight distribution. So rear axle would only be 5,000 lbs.
Even it it were 40/60, 122 D1 load index tires would give 6,614 rear axle capacity.

 

[ricohman]

From the reveal event, Elon said the truck wights the same as an F-150, so sub 6,000 lbs. Say 6,500 (1,000 more than an X). With the pack in the front, 6 passengers @ 150 in the middle, and 2,600 lb in the vault, it would come in at just under 10,000 lbs (threshold for a lot of regulations) and be near 50/50 weight distribution. So rear axle would only be 5,000 lbs.

So max is 2500lb now?

 

[mongo]

So max is 2500lb now?

6 passengers @ 150 in the middle, and 2,600 lb in the vault,

Max is 3,500: 900 worth of passenger and 2,600 in the vault. Or go with one driver at 150 and 3,350 in the vault. It still works out for single rear tires.

 

[ricohman]

Max is 3,500: 900 worth of passenger and 2,600 in the vault. Or go with one driver at 150 and 3,350 in the vault. It still works out for single rear tires.

OK. For some reason I though it was specified as a 3500 lb payload.

 

[mongo]

OK. For some reason I though it was specified as a 3500 lb payload.

I took payload as being passengers plus cargo (or GVWR - curb), https://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/towing-capacity/vehicle%20/payload1.htm otherwise, it's an additional 900 pounds for 4,400 lbs total.
From federal regulations:

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating” or “GVWR” followed by the appropriate value in pounds, which shall not be less than the sum of the unloaded vehicle weight, rated cargo load, and 150 pounds times the number of the vehicle's designated seating positions. However, for school buses the minimum occupant weight allowance shall be 120 pounds per passenger and 150 pounds for the driver.

 

[ThomasD]

If we go with the max tow and payload we are at 17,500 GCWR . So the truck should have a tag for at least 18 to 20,000 pounds. Putting it into the 3/4 1 ton weights. Even at the dual motor .10,000 pound towing you are at 13,500 pounds. I just don't see the truck as stable in the rear as with a solid axle truck. Even using the 85 % rule I think we will see revisions in these numbers at production time

 

[Brekfst]

Gonna be interesting to how these pan out spec wise but I bet we see the same small print On release though. I just can’t see how they getting around it as based on current weights it would be in the 3/4 ton 10k category in a half ton. If it has then great. The 2wd model already has more power than my truck and with a 3/4 ton GVWR it will make it extremely capable.

 

[Conor Knoxx]

my understanding is "payload" will include passengers, luggage, whatever you put in the box/cargo, AND the tongue weight. A 14,000lb trailer should have a tongue weight of about 1,400lbs, passengers and luggage lets peg at 600lbs, leaving "room" for another 1000lbs in the back, It does seem like an awful lot... But I guess it's not as much as some 3/4 tons, like the F250 etc. which is likely more comparable to the CyberTruck.
Towing is a strange thing though... because even though manufacturers specify "max towing" I've never found anything on my ownership papers, or the vehicle GVRW specs tag, about "max towing" - it seems like as long as your tongue weight and payload / passengers etc don't exceed the GVRW - you can tow whatever you want. Other than you might void your warranty.

 

[keeney]

As mentioned, you are going to need E or F-rated tires to hit 3500 lbs payload depending on the empty truck weight.
But riding around on fully-inflated F-range tires in an empty truck as a passenger vehicle is less than an optimal ride.

 

[mongo]

my understanding is "payload" will include passengers, luggage, whatever you put in the box/cargo, AND the tongue weight. A 14,000lb trailer should have a tongue weight of about 1,400lbs, passengers and luggage lets peg at 600lbs, leaving "room" for another 1000lbs in the back, It does seem like an awful lot... But I guess it's not as much as some 3/4 tons, like the F250 etc. which is likely more comparable to the CyberTruck.
Towing is a strange thing though... because even though manufacturers specify "max towing" I've never found anything on my ownership papers, or the vehicle GVRW specs tag, about "max towing" - it seems like as long as your tongue weight and payload / passengers etc don't exceed the GVRW - you can tow whatever you want. Other than you might void your warranty.

Some list GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is the limit of vehicle and towed object, some break out max payload (including tongue) and max towing.
This site has links to look up the values by VIN:
https://tap.fremontmotors.com/trusted-auto-professionals/find-trucks-towing-capacity-vin-number

 

[Electruck]

I’m curious about this as their numbers seem way off.

on a standard truck your pay load and towing is based on your vehicles GVRW. As an example a low end truck can actually have a vastly higher payload and towing than a higher end higher power truck.

I would assume that the body will be exactly the same across all 3. I would also assume it will have the same air suspension system in each and I would also assume the same GVRW.

So I’m curious how they are figuring their payloads and towing as normally the only thing that affects it is the addition off more accessories as these are part of your GVW. It can’t be motor size as the 2 motor 4WD will have as much power as a 3.5 ecoboost yet vastly less capacity yet you jump up to the 3 motor and it adds extra payload and towing on the same body.

You want other people to do the legwork, to figure out a known quantity with a known formula, when you THEN present false information about the dual motor being 4WD.

STOP making problems.