How does Tesla figure the payload and towing?

[outdoors]

View attachment 484358

Yes trim levels mean things to. All the heated and air conditioned seats, video systems. Rear A/C units. Heavier seats. Wiring harness for all the items. You lose it as you go up in trim. OEM's adjust towing and payload on that basis as well. All aren't there on the stripped down version. If you can find them.

 

[ricohman]

As mentioned, you are going to need E or F-rated tires to hit 3500 lbs payload depending on the empty truck weight.
But riding around on fully-inflated F-range tires in an empty truck as a passenger vehicle is less than an optimal ride.

Agree with that. I run 100 psi in my 19.5's when I have a 5000 lb camper in the back. I pump them up to 110 if I have the camper on and I'm towing a trailer with another truck on it.
Empty at those pressures can feel like a skateboard.

 

[SSedan]

Suspension and brakes can vary between trim levels but critical to load carrying ability, an auto leveling system would add weight but by keeping the chassis level could raise tow capacity. The tires on the selected trim level matter as well as others have mentioned high weight class tires suck for grocery getter duty. Tire shop put E rated tires on my half ton, I keep them pretty seriously under inflated much like Ford did on the explorer years ago.
On an ICE cooling systems are often modified a bit for "tow package" as well, since EVs biggest generator of waste heat is supercharging though I doubt that will change much other than including the extra motors in the loop.

One giant piece of the puzzle you are missing though is $$$$$$$ you charge extra for warranty exposure and because you "can" for higher capabilities.

You rate the truck at 5000lbs towing and you are less likely to have warranty claims than the same exact hardware if you are allowing folks to tow 10k.

Registration and insurance costs are a concern too, make it available in a lower weight rating keeps those costs lower for those not intending to pull big loads.

 

[ricohman]

Suspension and brakes can vary between trim levels but critical to load carrying ability, an auto leveling system would add weight but by keeping the chassis level could raise tow capacity. The tires on the selected trim level matter as well as others have mentioned high weight class tires suck for grocery getter duty. Tire shop put E rated tires on my half ton, I keep them pretty seriously under inflated much like Ford did on the explorer years ago.
On an ICE cooling systems are often modified a bit for "tow package" as well, since EVs biggest generator of waste heat is supercharging though I doubt that will change much other than including the extra motors in the loop.

One giant piece of the puzzle you are missing though is $$$$$$$ you charge extra for warranty exposure and because you "can" for higher capabilities.

You rate the truck at 5000lbs towing and you are less likely to have warranty claims than the same exact hardware if you are allowing folks to tow 10k.

Registration and insurance costs are a concern too, make it available in a lower weight rating keeps those costs lower for those not intending to pull big loads.

Historically, trucks have been under rated and overloaded. All the manufacturers know that some people are really going to beat on these things.
How that will work out with the CT remains to be seen as it's an all new platform. After watching that video with the Model X towing that little camper (driving an hour then having to charge for an hour then abandoning the X and taking a Land Cruiser) perhaps the abuse will kept to a minimum as the towing distance will be really limited by hauling or towing heavy.

 

[Ehninger1212]

Agree with that. I run 100 psi in my 19.5's when I have a 5000 lb camper in the back. I pump them up to 110 if I have the camper on and I'm towing a trailer with another truck on it.
Empty at those pressures can feel like a skateboard.

I run E rated tires so i can run higher pressures during a load for even wear, as well as more load support. I don't leave them pumped up to 80 without a load though. That would produce a horrific ride. You should look up the chalk test to get you closer to the tire pressure you need for even tread wear. Mine is around 40psi for even tread wear without a load, rides very smooth.

 

[ricohman]

I run E rated tires so i can run higher pressures during a load for even wear, as well as more load support. I don't leave them pumped up to 80 without a load though. That would produce a horrific ride. You should look up the chalk test to get you closer to the tire pressure you need for even tread wear. Mine is around 40psi for even tread wear without a load, rides very smooth.

The 19.5 is a different beast. Ford recommends 80 psi in the steers and 80 psi in the rears. There is no safety bead in the 19.5 so that plays a big part.
On the plus side these G rated tires can last well over 100,000 miles. And then you can get them cut again.

 

[jerry33]

The GVWR number is created by the manufacturer based on engine, brakes, frame, and suspension.

You sure about that? In all the truck designs I've seen the GVWR is based on the axle rating. The frame (exoskeleton) must be strong enough to carry the engine and payload and pull the load, but the axles (suspension in this case) are always the weakest point so they are what determines the GVWR. Because all the variations have the same load capacity, either the only suspension is the one for the TriMotor, or there are different suspensions for each variant. I'd guess the former since that is much easier to do.

 

[Brekfst]

You sure about that? In all the truck designs I've seen the GVWR is based on the axle rating. The frame (exoskeleton) must be strong enough to carry the engine and payload and pull the load, but the axles (suspension in this case) are always the weakest point so they are what determines the GVWR. Because all the variations have the same load capacity, either the only suspension is the one for the TriMotor, or there are different suspensions for each variant. I'd guess the former since that is much easier to do.

That’s my line of thinking that it be only one brake and suspension setup between the models and more than likely the body’s will be sane spec too. So if my f150 is rated to tow 13k lbs with a rear wheel drive setup at 375hp then the 2WD cyber truck should be just capable.

 

[mongo]

You sure about that? In all the truck designs I've seen the GVWR is based on the axle rating. The frame (exoskeleton) must be strong enough to carry the engine and payload and pull the load, but the axles (suspension in this case) are always the weakest point so they are what determines the GVWR. Because all the variations have the same load capacity, either the only suspension is the one for the TriMotor, or there are different suspensions for each variant. I'd guess the former since that is much easier to do.

I was lumping the axle into frame and suspension. The HDs do have lower rear axle ratios, stiffer springs and potentially more steel in the axle and possibly the frame between the hitch and springs.
Agree there is likely one suspension, adjustable by the air and variable damping. Possibly beefed up hitch carrier as part of the tri motor assembly/ larger pack packaging.

 

[mongo]

Not quite sure what you are saying here.

So Tesla May be underrating the lower trims even though they may end up with capability of the highest towing other brands.

The lightest truck curb weight truck with the same frame and suspension would have the highest payload before frame damage occurs. However, the needed acceleration and braking requirements might not allow that payload, nor allow that level of towing.
At the extreme: The Model X can pull a passenger jet and the F-150 can pull train cars, but neither can do it at 55 MPH up an incline. (Assuming braking is handled by trailer)

 

[Evbwcaer]

There will be no 3500 lb payload without dual rear wheels. When you add then weight of this truck (8000 lb?) occupants and a 3500 lb payload you are well into G rated 19.5 tires. Well beyond the typical F rated DRW tires and certainly beyond a typical 1 ton SRW E rated tire.

This comment does not apply for some military and commercial type tires, which the Cybertruck appears to have. One example is the Continental MPT81 commonly found on Unimogs or the DRW to SRW conversions offered by Rickson for brush fire trucks (Usually F450/550 SRW water tankers). There are single rear wheel vehicles with payloads of a lot more than 3,500lbs.

More interesting to me is the way the rims of the Cybertruck have fingers that extend over the sidewalls. My guess is that this allows some type of low pressure operating situation, but it seems like the rim finger could contact the ground, damage the tire, and make mounting really hard.

 

[Brekfst]

Not quite sure what you are saying here.



The lightest truck curb weight truck with the same frame and suspension would have the highest payload before frame damage occurs. However, the needed acceleration and braking requirements might not allow that payload, nor allow that level of towing.
At the extreme: The Model X can pull a passenger jet and the F-150 can pull train cars, but neither can do it at 55 MPH up an incline. (Assuming braking is handled by trailer)

Let’s use my model f150 as example here.

when equipped with the most powerful engine and 2wd it has a max of 11300lb tow capacity. If you add anything over that as an extra accessory the towing goes down. Add 4wd it goes down, add a larger cab it goes down add cooled seats it goes down.

So lets look at the CT. The one with 2WD should technically give you the highest tow rating but it’s not. It’s not because the motors not powerful enough. I haven’t checked what it has in hp and tq but it must be more than the 320hp 360tq. I had in the f150 with highest tow rating.

Now there’s the other factors. Suspension and brakes.

you are talking about a 600lb difference in weight for the tongue between a 13000lb and a 7000lb trailer and the lowest CT payload should have more than 700lb payload.

then you have the brakes. I can’t see them being different. F150’s have the same brakes in their low payload models through to their high payload models. But when towing anything over 5000lb you gonna be using trailer brakes anyway with a dual axle trailer so stopping aint gonna be a massive factor in my view.

that why I’m curious of how they have reached their figures. It’s gonna be interesting to see how it pans out.

 

[jerry33]

This comment does not apply for some military and commercial type tires, which the Cybertruck appears to have. One example is the Continental MPT81 commonly found on Unimogs or the DRW to SRW conversions offered by Rickson for brush fire trucks (Usually F450/550 SRW water tankers). There are single rear wheel vehicles with payloads of a lot more than 3,500lbs.

More interesting to me is the way the rims of the Cybertruck have fingers that extend over the sidewalls. My guess is that this allows some type of low pressure operating situation, but it seems like the rim finger could contact the ground, damage the tire, and make mounting really hard.

Rim flanges are standard based on the size of tire. The tires appear to be normal truck tire sizes for sport/utility off-roading. When using low pressure for offroading, speed must be strictly limited--in some cases no more than 15 km/h, though the more common pressure lowering allows 50 km/h. Of course, offroad events such as Baja, runs full pressure because the speeds are much higher. Just depends on the type of terrain to be covered and the speeds anticipated.

 

[Cyber_Dav]

Rim flanges are standard based on the size of tire.

I thought those rim flanges were part of a hubcap. You think they were part of the rim?

 

[ohmman]

Moderator note: 12 posts moved to snippiness. Some may have been collateral damage due to quoting posts that had to be moved. If there is information you'd like to replace here, feel free to copy and paste into a new post.

I also corrected the thread title.

 

[jerry33]

I thought those rim flanges were part of a hubcap. You think they were part of the rim?

Rim flanges are the part of the wheel that hold the tire on and support the tire's bead area.

Or were you referring to the square looking things on the hubcap. I doubt they'll be in the production vehicle, they were just for show (my opinion) because they're way to easy to damage.
.

 

[Cyber_Dav]

Rim flanges are the part of the wheel that hold the tire on and support the tire's bead area.

Or were you referring to the square looking things on the hubcap. I doubt they'll be in the production vehicle, they were just for show (my opinion) because they're way to easy to damage.
.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry I wasn't familiar with the technical terinology.

And that's my opinion on the damage, too.