I have my car set to charge to 80% but if I use the navigation and tell it to navigate to Miami for example it doesn't matter if the charge limit is set to 80% or 100% the results are the same. It shows I will arrive with the same amount of battery, shows the same thing in terms of how long I need to charge at each location and so on. Is it just by default assuming I'm using 100% battery?
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How does navigation calculate superchargers in relation to charge limit?
- Thread starter psykobunny83
- Start date
Kermee
It's Not Easy Being Green
The nav calculates the shortest time, which usually means you’re charging just enough to get to the next supercharger and arrive with a margin, I think about 15%. It won’t have you charge to 80 or 100% unless you don’t have another option, because that would take longer.
Anyway this should be a moot point because you should always set your charge limit to 100% when on a trip.
Anyway this should be a moot point because you should always set your charge limit to 100% when on a trip.
Yeah, don’t hesitate to charge to 100% for a trip. Once in a while is absolutely fine for your battery.
I’ve had an S for 5 years. I normally charge to 80%, and have done a full charge maybe 10 times per year on average. It’s been fine. Battery degradation has been about 5%, and I still get 253-ish on a full charge (originally 265).
I’ve had an S for 5 years. I normally charge to 80%, and have done a full charge maybe 10 times per year on average. It’s been fine. Battery degradation has been about 5%, and I still get 253-ish on a full charge (originally 265).
Navigation ignores charge limits. If you need 95% to get to the next supercharger that is when it will tell you you have enough to continue.
On the other side it you arrive with 20% and only need to charge to 70% to get to the next it will tell you you can continue at 70%. If you want more margin set NAV for a point past your destination.
On the other side it you arrive with 20% and only need to charge to 70% to get to the next it will tell you you can continue at 70%. If you want more margin set NAV for a point past your destination.
Yeah that's fine it's more I put Toronto to Miami for fun so there's several super charger stops along the way. It shows if I understand the icon correctly, that I'd charge for 1 hour at each one with a couple showing 50 minutes. So if I have it set to 80% right now I wasn't sure if that "1 hour charge" time was assuming I'm charging the battery to 100%, or if the limit is presently set to 80% is it using that as the cap, as in 400km max range vs 499.
I'd always use 100% for a trip, it was more when using the nav to plan one I wasn't sure if I was supposed to set it to 100% first and then use the nav or if it mattered, as I didn't want it to calculate my trip time based on only charging to 80% every time since it wasn't clear.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
Are you saying, as a hypothetical, that if you have your charge limit set to 70% but you really need 75% that while DURING the actual Supercharging on that trip it will *ignore* your 70% and continue Superchaging to 75%? I'm not sure I have seen/tried that.
I've roadtripped a fair amount in our X and often set the limit to 90% in case I forget at night and I maybe at a destination charger or campground (1 night max at a time). If I have a long lunch, I'll bump it to 95% or whatever if I see it getting close to 90% and I'm not done. Plus I'll start the HVAC so I'm cooling while on the Supercharger and not when I initially drive.
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@psykobunny83 I think you’re missing the point. Nav will never tell you to charge to 100% if there is another supercharger along your route to stop at.
I'd always charge to 100% at a supercharger though since the Nav is too risky. It's showing I'd arrive at most chargers with 10% battery. There'd be no way I'd drive somewhere and get that low only to find out the chargers aren't working or something. So if I'm stopping at a supercharger I'm going to 100% every time just to be safe.
My point is if I have it capped at 80% right now and I say navigate to Miami, it says 25 hours 10 minutes. If I set the cap to 100% it says the same thing, 25 hours 10 minutes. Like it REALLY stretches it, I thought it would have me stop way more but it only has me stop at maybe 5 superchargers all the way from Toronto to Miami, so it's really maxing the distance on them, where I'd rather stop more frequently even for shorter charges. Was hoping I could specify my preferences like that.
I guess I can just test this myself, but hypothetically speaking, if I set the charge limit to 50% and then set the nav, is it going to be like "Sorry you can't make this trip at all?" or is it still going to say "25 hours 10 minutes off you go!" knowing I can't make it with the limit? Again I'd never do that, I'm looking hypothetically in terms of planning trips etc.
The nav does not pay any attention to the charge limit setting. Though I would think if you set the charge limit to something like 50% the car would stop charging at that point and may never have enough charge to reach the destination. I've never had that problem. Try one of the trip planners (ABetterRoutePlanner or EVTripPlanner) to get what should be the most time-efficient charging plan. The nav does seem to like longer distances between charges, which should be more time consuming in total.
When charging at the Supercharger, normally you get a notification that you have enough charge to reach your destination (assuming one is entered in the nav). The car will then continue charging until you reach your individual charge limit. At that point it will stop. I use a 100% limit when we'll be driving soon, but 90% if this is the last charge of the day at the hotel. That way if I'm delayed at a charge stop I can pick up a little extra charge.
If you don't like the 15% or so that the nav thinks is OK, just sit there and watch the charge remaining at destination. It updates in real-time. We like to wait for 20% if the charge rate is still high. The nav estimates were very accurate for us last month, except for one rainy segment (charge extra!).
If you want to stop more frequently, keep a list of the Superchargers you want to hit and enter the next one into the nav when you start charging at the current charger. Leave when the charge remaining at that destination is at your safety margin. It's also nice if you write down the nearest hotel/restaurant/mall/store so you can look for the sign when trying to find the Supercharger.
When charging at the Supercharger, normally you get a notification that you have enough charge to reach your destination (assuming one is entered in the nav). The car will then continue charging until you reach your individual charge limit. At that point it will stop. I use a 100% limit when we'll be driving soon, but 90% if this is the last charge of the day at the hotel. That way if I'm delayed at a charge stop I can pick up a little extra charge.
If you don't like the 15% or so that the nav thinks is OK, just sit there and watch the charge remaining at destination. It updates in real-time. We like to wait for 20% if the charge rate is still high. The nav estimates were very accurate for us last month, except for one rainy segment (charge extra!).
If you want to stop more frequently, keep a list of the Superchargers you want to hit and enter the next one into the nav when you start charging at the current charger. Leave when the charge remaining at that destination is at your safety margin. It's also nice if you write down the nearest hotel/restaurant/mall/store so you can look for the sign when trying to find the Supercharger.
I believe so. After all you expect the navigation to get you there.Are you saying, as a hypothetical, that if you have your charge limit set to 70% but you really need 75% that while DURING the actual Supercharging on that trip it will *ignore* your 70% and continue Superchaging to 75%? I'm not sure I have seen/tried that.
I've roadtripped a fair amount in our X and often set the limit to 90% in case I forget at night and I maybe at a destination charger or campground (1 night max at a time). If I have a long lunch, I'll bump it to 95% or whatever if I see it getting close to 90% and I'm not done. Plus I'll start the HVAC so I'm cooling while on the Supercharger and not when I initially drive.
Now if you have no destination set I believe it will honor a charge limit.
It overrides your setting when it has info from the Nav telling it it needs to.
Billions of miles of travel by superchargers since 2013 show this strategy would be a huge waste of time, both for you and for the next person waiting for your space at a busy supercharger. If you don't want to leave when the nav says you can, fine, pick an estimated percentage on arrival that you are comfortable with and leave then. For example, if you don't want to leave when it estimates you will have 10% on arrival (31 miles), leave when it estimates 20% on arrival (62 miles). But waiting for your battery to go from 90% full (279 miles range) to 100% full (310 miles range) will take at least 20 minutes each time for those additional 31 miles.
The risk that superchargers aren't working is < .0001%. Probably a few more zeros. In six years we can probably count on two hands the number of times an entire site was down. It would require power to be out to the site, not just a problem with a supercharger cabinet, because the cabinets are independent of each other. I can think of Shamrock, TX during a storm, Huntsville, TX when a backhoe digging in the parking lot cut power, Harris Ranch for I don't remember what reason, maybe a few others. In six years! Then the risk would only occur if the outage happened while you were en route, because nav will not direct you to a supercharger site that is down. Even if the site has reduced service, meaning reduced power or some stalls out, the nav will tell you.
Bottom line is pick a margin of safety you're comfortable with, but there is no reason to wait for those last few electrons to move across the battery before you start moving to the next supercharger.
It's not so much them that aren't working, it's more I don't want to hit bumper to bumper traffic where that supercharger that's 2 hours away now becomes 3.5 which is not uncommon at all, or construction with detours etc. The distance is the same but AC and what not would be on. So rolling in somewhere with 10% charge like it was showing just seems like it cuts it close if there's any delays on the way.
On the contrary, if you hit traffic on the highway you’re driving slower so your energy consumption goes down and you will arrive with a higher percentage remaining than you anticipated. Speed is the biggest determinant of range, far, far more than how long A/C is running.
Really we’ve done this before. As in tens of thousands of Model S drivers driving billions of supercharged miles. You’re not the first to try this. There are lots of threads about long distance driving in Teslas. Search for them and read what others say too.
Really we’ve done this before. As in tens of thousands of Model S drivers driving billions of supercharged miles. You’re not the first to try this. There are lots of threads about long distance driving in Teslas. Search for them and read what others say too.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
As a rule of thumb, I'd expect the first Supercharger stop to be shorter for the car starting at 100% and the remainder of the trip the same for either the 80% or 100% scenario.
20% SoC is about 60 miles. That takes about 10 minutes of extra Supercharging which many be shown in the driving time estimate or be swallowed up by the length of the trip.
Check shorter trips to see the difference.
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
It is very time inefficient to Supercharge to 100% — you should never do this! The last few percent are very slow and a waste of time and it is faster to drive to the next stop slightly slower than it is to charge to 100%. Charging to 100% on Level 2 overnight is fine — set the timer to finish when you are going to leave.
However, I always set my car to 100% when on a road trip so that I can charge to 95% or so when I really need it — my car is much shorter range than a Model 3LR and I have trouble with longer trip legs. By contrast, it would be rare for a Model 3LR to need to Supercharge to even 90%; perhaps if venturing far off the Supercharger network it might be necessary.
As is discussed in numerous threads on road trips, it is faster to charge every 100 to 140 miles than to skip Supercharger stops and go more than 200 miles. This is because the car charges more quickly when the battery is near empty and the charge speed tapers (slows) as the battery fills. The goal is to arrive at the next Supercharger Station near empty (~10-12%) and charge just enough, plus whatever buffer you are comfortable with, to get to the next Supercharger Station. This reduces overall charging time. Exceptions to this rule are when starting out in the morning with a full charge — you will likely want to skip one or two Supercharger Stations until you get to the farthest one you can reach. Also, if you want to stop for a longer time than needed to make the next Supercharger Station, usually for a meal or something like that, you can Supercharge longer and skip the next Supercharger Station. Other than that, more stops and shorter charges can be faster overall than fewer stops and longer charging sessions. I mention all this because it can seem counterintuitive to Tesla road trip newcomers.
If navigation suggests long Supercharging stops and there are nearer Supercharger Stations you can use, just ignore nav and charge sooner for a shorter time (within reason, you don't want to stop every 50 miles or anything like that). Set nav to the Supercharger Station that you want to visit so it can guide you there, if you haven't been there before. Don't assume that you have to make your Supercharging stops when nav tells you to, unless it really is the only practical choice.
FWIW.
[For the record: I've made 210 Supercharger stops on road trips in 2½ years. I have some experience with this.]
However, I always set my car to 100% when on a road trip so that I can charge to 95% or so when I really need it — my car is much shorter range than a Model 3LR and I have trouble with longer trip legs. By contrast, it would be rare for a Model 3LR to need to Supercharge to even 90%; perhaps if venturing far off the Supercharger network it might be necessary.
As is discussed in numerous threads on road trips, it is faster to charge every 100 to 140 miles than to skip Supercharger stops and go more than 200 miles. This is because the car charges more quickly when the battery is near empty and the charge speed tapers (slows) as the battery fills. The goal is to arrive at the next Supercharger Station near empty (~10-12%) and charge just enough, plus whatever buffer you are comfortable with, to get to the next Supercharger Station. This reduces overall charging time. Exceptions to this rule are when starting out in the morning with a full charge — you will likely want to skip one or two Supercharger Stations until you get to the farthest one you can reach. Also, if you want to stop for a longer time than needed to make the next Supercharger Station, usually for a meal or something like that, you can Supercharge longer and skip the next Supercharger Station. Other than that, more stops and shorter charges can be faster overall than fewer stops and longer charging sessions. I mention all this because it can seem counterintuitive to Tesla road trip newcomers.
If navigation suggests long Supercharging stops and there are nearer Supercharger Stations you can use, just ignore nav and charge sooner for a shorter time (within reason, you don't want to stop every 50 miles or anything like that). Set nav to the Supercharger Station that you want to visit so it can guide you there, if you haven't been there before. Don't assume that you have to make your Supercharging stops when nav tells you to, unless it really is the only practical choice.
FWIW.
[For the record: I've made 210 Supercharger stops on road trips in 2½ years. I have some experience with this.]
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I guess it's the car that throws me off. It says online you can charge to 80% in 30 minutes or something and when each stop on the nav says charge for 1 hour I assume that meant that would make it full since the shortest I've ever seen was 50 minutes to charge.
The other reason I mention 100% is because I don't have a wall charger at home as I'm moving in 2 months so I charge from the wall which usually charges at 1kw to 7kw, very slow. So right now wouldn't want to arrive home with 10% battery as it would take forever to charge it.
I honestly was planning on driving to Montreal as a first roadtrip and just stop at at least 2 or 3 superchargers on the way to top up just for the fun of it to get to use them, as normally I'd never be in a position I'd need to use them. We have an RV so sadly any trips down south would be in that, making long distance travel in my M3 more of a rarity.
Again, apologies if I sound like I'm questioning charging habits and how it all works, as I'm not. I'm just trying to understand how it all works and what the rates on the nav at stops mean which now I completely understand. I even did a test last night had my battery at 73%, put Montreal, it said arrive at Kingston with 17% battery, charge there 1 hour arrive Montreal with 14% battery. I then charged it for awhile to bring it to 75% and checked again and the nav said arrive at Kingston now with 19% battery, 1 hour charge, arrive at Montreal with 14% battery or 70km range. So from what I understand from the helpful posts above is that assuming it doesn't have me fully charge at Kingston, if I prefer to arrive in Montreal with 20% or 100km range, I'd just charge an extra 6% or so in Kingston so that my arrival in Montreal has 20%.
The other reason I mention 100% is because I don't have a wall charger at home as I'm moving in 2 months so I charge from the wall which usually charges at 1kw to 7kw, very slow. So right now wouldn't want to arrive home with 10% battery as it would take forever to charge it.
I honestly was planning on driving to Montreal as a first roadtrip and just stop at at least 2 or 3 superchargers on the way to top up just for the fun of it to get to use them, as normally I'd never be in a position I'd need to use them. We have an RV so sadly any trips down south would be in that, making long distance travel in my M3 more of a rarity.
Again, apologies if I sound like I'm questioning charging habits and how it all works, as I'm not. I'm just trying to understand how it all works and what the rates on the nav at stops mean which now I completely understand. I even did a test last night had my battery at 73%, put Montreal, it said arrive at Kingston with 17% battery, charge there 1 hour arrive Montreal with 14% battery. I then charged it for awhile to bring it to 75% and checked again and the nav said arrive at Kingston now with 19% battery, 1 hour charge, arrive at Montreal with 14% battery or 70km range. So from what I understand from the helpful posts above is that assuming it doesn't have me fully charge at Kingston, if I prefer to arrive in Montreal with 20% or 100km range, I'd just charge an extra 6% or so in Kingston so that my arrival in Montreal has 20%.
Thanks this is helpful and makes sense! I guess I wasn't even thinking charge to full to skip superchargers and stop less, I was thinking if it said stop at 5 superchargers on the way, that you'd generally fully charge at each one just like filling a tank of gas, vs filling just enough to get to the next city. I just assumed the nav was having you completely fill up at each stop and then basing whether you could make it to the next supercharger under the assumption you have a full battery. So it makes sense now!
Telsa's Nav currently chooses to charge higher at some stops so it can skip over others. It's not the fastest way of doing the trip - you'd have less total time if you charged up just enough to get to the next stop and hit pretty much every stop (well, maybe not the three that are 20 miles apart on I-95 in DE and northern MD, but every ~100 miles or so.)
This is actually the main reason that I tell people that the Navigation's plan is always executable but not always ideal.
Thanks so much for the recommendation on ABetterRoutePlanner it's so good!!!! I love how you can customize literally everything, it makes it so much clearer now being able to mess around with the values. Thanks again!
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