How does Tesla compare with an AWD car in snow

[Cottonwood]

Awesome place to live on, do you ever get avalanches?

When I bought the place, I did an Avalanche risk assessment. There are actually civil engineers that do such things. It includes computer models, and cutting some trees on risky slopes and looking for snow, side-load, stress damage. The risk was slight.

On the steep, avalanche prone slopes (60% to 85%, 30˚ to 40˚) above the house, I have discovered the results of several "micro-slides" while snow shoeing up the "hill," but have never seen slides that were more than 15 meters or so in length down the "hill." There are tree/brush damage areas on the "hill" that show evidence of slides up to 50 meters in the last 25 years, but that is pretty small as avalanches go... :wink:

 

[SmartElectric]

We are in our first winter with a 2013 CPO Tesla S 85 (RWD). We put on brand new Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 winter tires last month.

My wife drove it to/from an event tonight, the snow was coming down hard on her way too the event, about 4" deep today with a layer of freezing rain just starting to come down on her way home.

Her review (based on quizzing her about it) compared to the Mercedes AWD SUV she had last winter:

1. Car feels like a rear wheel drive car, and she felt like there was a chance the rear would step out, but it never did. As background, she did drive my then-new 1996 Z28 in winter conditions on summer tires. That was a long time ago, and was the only other rear wheel drive car we owned till my 2013 Smart ED and her 2013 Tesla.

2. Snow tires gripped, and made comforting sounds, such as the sound of depressing snow down.

3. Car climbed our partially shovelled steep 100 foot driveway (almost 20 percent grade in the middle!) without issue. No wheel spin. As comparison, her former MB SUV would slightly struggle (spin a bit with traction control) on performance tires (not pure winters) in similar conditions.

4. She put air suspension on high, but it went back to standard when she sped up getting on the highway. She would have preferred the suspension stayed on high for the entire trip, as there was build up of snow in the wheel wells that she felt could have been avoided with more clearance.

5. The pre-heating worked well both going and returning from the event. I did this from the comfort of home as I wasn't at the event with her, bonus points for me!


Let me tell you, the above is "high praise" from my wife, she doesn't like driving in bad weather, and rarely goes out in conditions like the above, but did so tonight with confidence. Of course, we did discuss getting an AWD Tesla in the future as she does prefer the "feel" of being pulled through snow than "pushed". Oh well, first world problems to be sure, and she loves her Tesla, so no worries!

 

[Barry]

SmartElectric - Did she set regen to low? That helps eliminate the "RWD feel."

 

[JST]

Agree with most other posters. The non-D Model S is a big, RWD car. It performs in the snow like a big, RWD car--in other words, not well, unless you put winter tires on it. Then it does pretty well, although in my experience even on snow tires the Tesla will get stuck in places where my AWD Golf won't have any trouble at all (on all-seasons).

 

[BoldSharpe]

I learned the hard way this morning ground clearance is the issue if it snows more than 6" or so as the car's flat bottom rests on the snow, not allowing for weight on the tires. I have an 85D with all season tires but I really don't think snows would have helped...

Note: My driveway typically would be plowed but my guy had an issue with his snowblower in the middle of the night and I decided to give it a go anyway. Which was not a wise decision! :frown:

It ended up taking 45 minutes to dig it out, jam some asphalt roof tiles under the wheels and push while my wife drove it back in the garage. I got her XC90 (also with all season tires) out shortly after with zero issues.

 

[green1]

I have an 85D with all season tires but I really don't think snows would have helped...

I think you severely underestimate the difference between no-season tires and winter tires.

Winter tires make a thousand times the difference that AWD makes in snow.

As for my experience, sure I have an RWD car, but with good winter tires, The traction control on this car is absolutely incredible! I just can't say enough good things about it, this RWD car can do almost as much as my last 4wd could (both with winter tires) and way more than my wife's FWD car (with winter tires)

 

[Battman]

This was the exact reason my Tesla sales agent highly recommended that I get the Smart Air Suspension. Especially since I live in Calgary and on an acreage. I do agree though that once a vehicle has been propped up by the deep snow and the weight transferred away from the wheels, the lack of winters would not make a difference. But the extra clearance of having the SAS would have (as you experienced with your XC90).

 

[BoldSharpe]

I think you severely underestimate the difference between no-season tires and winter tires.

Winter tires make a thousand times the difference that AWD makes in snow.

It certainly would appear that way! :wink: Yeah, I've consistently heard snow tires make a huge difference. I'm hesitant about buying a second set of wheels and tires but that's likely the way I'll go.

This was the exact reason my Tesla sales agent highly recommended that I get the Smart Air Suspension. Especially since I live in Calgary and on an acreage. I do agree though that once a vehicle has been propped up by the deep snow and the weight transferred away from the wheels, the lack of winters would not make a difference. But the extra clearance of having the SAS would have (as you experienced with your XC90).

From what I recall, the SAS adds maybe 1.5" from the standard coil setup so I'm still not certain that would have been enough to get me to work today. At least I got stuck in my driveway instead of the road! Either way, my driveway and the roads are now cleared to the point where I can drive without issue.

 

[green1]

From what I recall, the SAS adds maybe 1.5" from the standard coil setup so I'm still not certain that would have been enough to get me to work today. At least I got stuck in my driveway instead of the road! Either way, my driveway and the roads are now cleared to the point where I can drive without issue.

The advantage to the air suspension is that you can get stuck, THEN raise it and go back the way you came...

 

[JST]

I think you severely underestimate the difference between no-season tires and winter tires.

Winter tires make a thousand times the difference that AWD makes in snow.

As for my experience, sure I have an RWD car, but with good winter tires, The traction control on this car is absolutely incredible! I just can't say enough good things about it, this RWD car can do almost as much as my last 4wd could (both with winter tires) and way more than my wife's FWD car (with winter tires)

I don't really agree...or maybe I agree and disagree. Winter tires are much, much better than all-seasons when it comes to turning and stopping, but as I said above, in my own personal experience the Tesla even on winter tires still can get stuck in places where my AWD car has no trouble at all.

The Haldex unit in my Golf is really pretty amazing. That thing is an absolute billy goat in the snow, even on stock Pirelli P-Zero Nero A/S tires. It just digs and goes.

The Tesla? Yeah, not so much.

 

[jerry33]

I don't really agree...or maybe I agree and disagree. Winter tires are much, much better than all-seasons when it comes to turning and stopping, but as I said above, in my own personal experience the Tesla even on winter tires still can get stuck in places where my AWD car has no trouble at all.

The Haldex unit in my Golf is really pretty amazing. That thing is an absolute billy goat in the snow, even on stock Pirelli P-Zero Nero A/S tires. It just digs and goes.

The Tesla? Yeah, not so much.

My guess is that it has more to do with the difference in weight between the two cars.

 

[vgrinshpun]

I learned the hard way this morning ground clearance is the issue if it snows more than 6" or so as the car's flat bottom rests on the snow, not allowing for weight on the tires. I have an 85D with all season tires but I really don't think snows would have helped...

Note: My driveway typically would be plowed but my guy had an issue with his snowblower in the middle of the night and I decided to give it a go anyway. Which was not a wise decision! :frown:

It ended up taking 45 minutes to dig it out, jam some asphalt roof tiles under the wheels and push while my wife drove it back in the garage. I got her XC90 (also with all season tires) out shortly after with zero issues.

This is very surprising to me. I had NO trouble to get out of my hilly development through the 6" (measured by tape) virgin non-plowed snow last winter, with the suspension set to maximum height. I have P85+ and use 19" Blizzak LM-60 tires during winter. Using dedicated snow tires (as I do for more than 10 years) makes huge difference.

 

[BoldSharpe]

This is very surprising to me. I had NO trouble to get out of my hilly development through the 6" (measured by tape) virgin non-plowed snow last winter, with the suspension set to maximum height. I have P85+ and use 19" Blizzak LM-60 tires during winter. Using dedicated snow tires (as I do for more than 10 years) makes huge difference.

We received approximately 10" of snow, not including some drifting due to high winds, but my point was if there's more snow than the ground clearance of the car (roughly 6"), you can have issues.

I took the car out after the roads were cleaned up a bit mid-day and the car handled very nicely in the snow with the all season tires. I'm still strongly considering a second pair of wheels with snow tires now though.

 

[Snow Drift]

Snow tires and AWD are a total game-changer. Stopping distance is reduced and grip is a lot more, especially up hills. Honestly it is night and day. I've had three Subaru WRX and snow tires turn the car into a tank in the snow. Best investment you will make for winter fun and confidence. Just don't get too cocky.

 

[wjhepworth]

Just to weigh in on experience, I just drove through about 3" of snow on very cold streets which caused the snow to pack down to ice. I have a Model S 70D with the standard all weather tires. I was able to drive roughly 25 miles around the Washington DC Beltway and had zero issues. Typically I was in the 40+ MPH range with a few other cars. At one point the Tesla did engage traction control while going up a hill but the car was steady. It should also be noted that for some reason there were dozens of cars that were pulled over so there clearly were bad conditions out there.

-Bill

 

[thx1139]

Had our first real driving in snow experiences this weekend. On Friday we visited Michigan State University in East Lansing, MI. On the way home to Chicago we got caught in heavy lake effect snow storm. Worst driving conditions I have ever been in. Whiteout conditions and expressway with a good inch or two of packed frozen snow. Times when we couldnt see the vehicle in front of us except for glow of brake lights. Our Tesla performed awesome. Yesterday we were also were out during a good snowfall in warmer conditions so the snow was wetter and not packing, but turning into more of a slush. Chelsea performed great again. No car I have ever had has performed this well in the snow.

 

[3mp_kwh]

One big advantage is the 50/50 weight distribution.

Yes, the snow made me realize that, after lowering the back a bit more than the front it understeers a bit more. It's also almost impossible to fish-tail. I go to the lower regen setting, in snow, because that sweet spot between accelerating and braking gets dicey. I find it easier to be ginger with the brakes. On X-ice, with AWD, it’s not even fair to compare with our AWD Tahoe, on street tires.

AWD/RWD, I think snows make the bigger difference.

 

[RDoc]

We have an 85D with the stock all weather tires, and an Acura NSX, a 3000lb, RWD sports car, equipped with IceX tires in the winter. From what I've seen, the Tesla is really excellent for getting through slushy/icy snow, significantly better than than the NSX. However, when it comes to braking, the NSX feels much more under control, and seems to stop at least as fast as the Tesla if not faster.

As people have said before, if you're regularly in difficult winter conditions, good snow tires are the answer. I'm not sure it's worthwhile for us, as our roads are pretty well plowed normally, but I'm certainly thinking about getting a set of wheels and snow tires for our Tesla.

 

[green1]

AWD/RWD, I think snows make the bigger difference.

Bingo! Many tests have shown that AWD only improves your winter handling by a minuscule amount, and tends to lead to over-confidence because almost all of the improvement is in acceleration, very little in steering, and zero in braking. As a result, AWD drivers often skip the snow tires, and are more likely to end up in the ditch than the RWD drivers who know their limitations because acceleration an an RWD vehicle is actually the worst hit performance wise in the winter.
Meanwhile proper winter tires improve acceleration, braking, and turning, all by a much higher margin than AWD does.

, the NSX feels much more under control, and seems to stop at least as fast as the Tesla if not faster.

Likely a much lighter vehicle than the Model S, you can't change physics.

 

[Snow Drift]

We have an 85D with the stock all weather tires, and an Acura NSX, a 3000lb, RWD sports car, equipped with IceX tires in the winter. From what I've seen, the Tesla is really excellent for getting through slushy/icy snow, significantly better than than the NSX. However, when it comes to braking, the NSX feels much more under control, and seems to stop at least as fast as the Tesla if not faster.

As people have said before, if you're regularly in difficult winter conditions, good snow tires are the answer. I'm not sure it's worthwhile for us, as our roads are pretty well plowed normally, but I'm certainly thinking about getting a set of wheels and snow tires for our Tesla.

I've owned three Subaru WRX 5MT and lived in/around Boston for 7 years, spent most of my life in NY and vacation in New Hampshire. So I know the type of snow you get. AWD + Snow Tires = game changer. Stopping distance is greatly improved over AWD + All-Seasons. Plus the added grip in deep snow, slush and even ice (yes I realize the lack of friction, but snow tires make a difference).