How does Tesla limit range in the SR?

[Zoomit]

This thread has sold me on getting the SR vs. the SR+ as its like getting the first 3 or so years with 0 perceived battery degradation by effectively getting the larger battery for 5K less. Fantastic.

I don't know how Tesla will treat battery degradation. An SR car might recompute the 90% limit based on the current, eventually degraded, capacity and still always keep 10% margin above the usable capacity. There's likely experience from the Model S 60 that can be applied to the Model 3 SR but I'm not familiar.

 

[Zoomit]

Consumers would tend to think somethings wrong if it took an hour for their phone to charge that last 1%, even though it really might.

This is tangentially related to this thread but when is 100% actually 100%? Previously I mentioned a Supercharging session I did up to 100% with my LR battery. It spent 27 minutes displaying 100% while the charge rate was initially 7kW and dropped to 1kW before I eventually gave up waiting for it to stop. (I should have waited a few more minutes as I really think it was about done.)

Integrating that final taper shows that 1.5kW was added to the battery or 2.0%. Assuming the 100% indication first triggered at 99.5%, that means the battery appeared to charge to 101.5% when "full" or my car might have an extra 1% available, but not indicated, above 100%.

For reference, my car has 14k mi and is 9 months old. I charge it to 100% about once a month but rarely go below 25%.

 

[darth_vad3r]

This is tangentially related to this thread but when is 100% actually 100%? Previously I mentioned a Supercharging session I did up to 100% with my LR battery. It spent 27 minutes displaying 100% while the charge rate was initially 7kW and dropped to 1kW before I eventually gave up waiting for it to stop. (I should have waited a few more minutes as I really think it was about done.)

Integrating that final taper shows that 1.5kW was added to the battery or 2.0%. Assuming the 100% indication first triggered at 99.5%, that means the battery appeared to charge to 101.5% when "full" or my car might have an extra 1% available, but not indicated, above 100%.

For reference, my car has 14k mi and is 9 months old. I charge it to 100% about once a month but rarely go below 25%.

I think there’s more inefficiency at lower power so that explains the “appearing to go to 101.5%”. Some of that is lost to inefficiency, and probably some to “forced inefficiency” by bleeding some bricks/modules to try to balance them all to “100.0%”.

 

[ucmndd]

This thread has sold me on getting the SR vs. the SR+ as its like getting the first 3 or so years with 0 perceived battery degradation by effectively getting the larger battery for 5K less. Fantastic.

If the 3 SR software lock is implemented the same way as the Model S/X, and again there's zero reason to believe it isn't, your capacity will indeed degrade over time. I suspect the way the lock is executed is something along the lines of:

(locked capacity) = (current measured 100% capacity) x (90%)

Over ~40k miles, the 100% range on my software locked "60" Model S degraded from the factory delivered 210 miles to less than 200.

 

[vickh]

If the 3 SR software lock is implemented the same way as the Model S/X, and again there's zero reason to believe it isn't, your capacity will indeed degrade over time. I suspect the way the lock is executed is something along the lines of:

(locked capacity) = (current measured 100% capacity) x (90%)

Over ~40k miles, the 100% range on my software locked "60" Model S degraded from the factory delivered 210 miles to less than 200.

but you/new owner had the ability to unlock the battery and get more range? @ what price?

I like the protected buffer status unless that would degrade equally with time even if not used.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I like the protected buffer status unless that would degrade equally with time even if not used.

It’s the physical battery that degrades, like the theoretical formula posted above suggests, 90% of the degraded capacity is available, so the 10% not available is of the same degraded capacity.

220/240 is 91.67%.

If the 240 degraded 5% to 228, the SR would show 209. If you then paid to unlock you could get up to 228 theoretically.

 

[ucmndd]

but you/new owner had the ability to unlock the battery and get more range? @ what price?

Yes, when I first bought the car the price to unlock the full 75kwh battery was something ridiculous like $7,000.

Later on, Tesla reduced the price to $2,000, which was much more reasonable, and I purchased at that time.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Yes, when I first bought the car the price to unlock the full 75kwh battery was something ridiculous like $7,000.

Later on, Tesla reduced the price to $2,000, which was much more reasonable, and I purchased at that time.

So when you made the purchase did your SoC display in miles stay the same but the % dropped (immediately after the update)?

 

[ucmndd]

So when you made the purchase did your SoC display in miles stay the same but the % dropped (immediately after the update)?

Correct, I was careful about my approach because a bunch of us 60 owners were asking all these same questions 2 years ago.

I charged my 60 to 100% and then shortly after charging completed, logged into MyTesla and paid for the upgrade. About 5 minutes later they sent the signal to the car, it rebooted, and immediately became a "75" at 86% SoC, which is exactly what you'd expect with a full top lock.

62.4 (actual usable capacity of locked 60) / 72.6 (actual usable capacity of S/X 75 battery) = 85.9

 

[ZOMGVTEK]

This is tangentially related to this thread but when is 100% actually 100%? Previously I mentioned a Supercharging session I did up to 100% with my LR battery. It spent 27 minutes displaying 100% while the charge rate was initially 7kW and dropped to 1kW before I eventually gave up waiting for it to stop. (I should have waited a few more minutes as I really think it was about done.)

Integrating that final taper shows that 1.5kW was added to the battery or 2.0%. Assuming the 100% indication first triggered at 99.5%, that means the battery appeared to charge to 101.5% when "full" or my car might have an extra 1% available, but not indicated, above 100%.

For reference, my car has 14k mi and is 9 months old. I charge it to 100% about once a month but rarely go below 25%.

Yeah, this is super common. There's some moderate degree of uncertainty. 99% isn't some absolute figure, and 99% today is probably not going to be the same amount of energy as 99% tomorrow. Tesla has a good handle on how to design a battery for sure, but they probably don't think it matters so much the meter is always perfect. And its really super hard to make it extremely accurate, so its really more of a 'best guess' within a percent or so. Sometimes the BMS is surprised and finds out it can hold more than it predicted, other times its the reverse. The battery is still just a controlled chemical reaction, the car wont really know for sure how much energy it can get out until its dead.

 

[vickh]

Correct, I was careful about my approach because a bunch of us 60 owners were asking all these same questions 2 years ago.

I charged my 60 to 100% and then shortly after charging completed, logged into MyTesla and paid for the upgrade. About 5 minutes later they sent the signal to the car, it rebooted, and immediately became a "75" at 86% SoC, which is exactly what you'd expect with a full top lock.

62.4 (actual usable capacity of locked 60) / 72.6 (actual usable capacity of S/X 75 battery) = 85.9

Will do the same when I do the upgrade. Spoke to mobile tech today and he said they can do the upgrade OTA and take payment, no need to come in like the email said. In the meanwhile i will charge to 100% and ignore the warnings.

 

[peakshaving]

Will do the same when I do the upgrade. Spoke to mobile tech today and he said they can do the upgrade OTA and take payment, no need to come in like the email said. In the meanwhile i will charge to 100% and ignore the warnings.

Oh wow they're doing upgrades already.. When I asked a few weeks back they had no idea how it would work. What's the cost for the upgrade?

 

[vickh]

Oh wow they're doing upgrades already.. When I asked a few weeks back they had no idea how it would work. What's the cost for the upgrade?

he just said they could,not that they are. I'm waiting too.

 

[Rwatters549]

I feel like my Model 3 long range is really a SR. On a road trip to Florida from Boston it shows a 300 mile charge, but the navigation would schedule a charge at 220 miles. As far as I am concerned, LR 310 miles is a fallacy. I am personally disappointed in the long range. I can't drive to the cape and back without stopping for a charge. (126 miles each way). I bought the long range for the long range.

I would much rather have an economy mode which gave long range. There is no reason I need this to be as fast a a Porsche, I would much rather have a normal call with a decent range.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I feel like my Model 3 long range is really a SR. On a road trip to Florida from Boston it shows a 300 mile charge, but the navigation would schedule a charge at 220 miles. As far as I am concerned, LR 310 miles is a fallacy. I am personally disappointed in the long range. I can't drive to the cape and back without stopping for a charge. (126 miles each way). I bought the long range for the long range.

I would much rather have an economy mode which gave long range. There is no reason I need this to be as fast a a Porsche, I would much rather have a normal call with a decent range.

Economy mode is called “chill” and set your max speed to 65 MPH.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I feel like my Model 3 long range is really a SR. On a road trip to Florida from Boston it shows a 300 mile charge, but the navigation would schedule a charge at 220 miles. As far as I am concerned, LR 310 miles is a fallacy. I am personally disappointed in the long range. I can't drive to the cape and back without stopping for a charge. (126 miles each way). I bought the long range for the long range.

Also keep in mind 310 is EPA combined city and highway range and EVs generally have worse highway mileage. EPA range of 310 combined implies 324 city and 293 highway.
2019 Tesla Model 3 Long Range

You should be able to make that 252 mi round trip if you leave at 100% and are comfortable arriving back home at 40mi or less. If you are staying somewhere you can charge then topping up helps avoid a stop mid-trip. If you stay a while without charging then Sentry mode or other accessory drain would make it so you’d be cutting it close to get back without charging.

I think the EVs should advertise highway range. This is where you can see the Teslas shine, even though the number will drop from today’s numbers, they won’t drop as much as the EV competition that’s not as aerodynamic nor as efficient.

 

[vickh]

Yes, when I first bought the car the price to unlock the full 75kwh battery was something ridiculous like $7,000.

Later on, Tesla reduced the price to $2,000, which was much more reasonable, and I purchased at that time.

I'm hoping they do the same with 3. Reduced upgrade pricing, plus they have more volume and it costs them nothing..

 

[vickh]

Also keep in mind 310 is EPA combined city and highway range and EVs generally have worse highway mileage. EPA range of 310 combined implies 324 city and 293 highway.
2019 Tesla Model 3 Long Range

You should be able to make that 252 mi round trip if you leave at 100% and are comfortable arriving back home at 40mi or less. If you are staying somewhere you can charge then topping up helps avoid a stop mid-trip. If you stay a while without charging then Sentry mode or other accessory drain would make it so you’d be cutting it close to get back without charging.

I think the EVs should advertise highway range. This is where you can see the Teslas shine, even though the number will drop from today’s numbers, they won’t drop as much as the EV competition that’s not as aerodynamic nor as efficient.

Good link with all trims:
Compare Side-by-Side



Had I know SR highway range (most of my commute) I would have picked the MR or higher. Esp with AZ heat the AC (set at 81) eats up a lot of range too. Hopefully better range in our mild winters??

 

[ucmndd]

I'm hoping they do the same with 3. Reduced upgrade pricing, plus they have more volume and it costs them nothing..

The problem is you have to do it in a way that doesn't overtly piss off existing owners.

In the case of the Model S, the original price difference was ~$7,000 between the software locked 60 and the 75. Then they discontinued the 60, shortly after reduced the price of the 75 by ~$5k. Some time after that they reduced the price for the software unlock down to the new delta of ~$2k.

 

[pdx_m3s]

The problem is you have to do it in a way that doesn't overtly piss off existing owners.

In the case of the Model S, the original price difference was ~$7,000 between the software locked 60 and the 75. Then they discontinued the 60, shortly after reduced the price of the 75 by ~$5k. Some time after that they reduced the price for the software unlock down to the new delta of ~$2k.

That's just the nature of dealing with a technology company, or most companies for that matter. Configurations and pricing are always in flux to balance a myriad of factors (e.g. vehicle inventory, demand, component cost/demand, quarterly earnings, etc.). Tesla needn't take into account existing owners when they make pricing or configuration changes. Customers were willing to purchase said configuration for said price. If I don't expect Tesla to offer me yesterday's lower price today, why should customers be upset if Tesla's price today is lower than yesterday? You can't have one and not the other.