How good (or bad) is the old Mobileye AP

[George S. Bower]

I've got 2 Tesla's on my radar.

a used Model 3 LR RWD w/ AP

or an older Model S P85 RWD w/ Mobileye AP

So I have a question for the owners of the old AP that ran the Mobileye platform:

How does it compare w/ the latest and greatest AP?

Obviously the new system must be better, lots more cameras etc. but what are the specifics?

I would assume the old Mobileye system would be OK on a well marked straight and open interstate. ....but maybe it's not so good around corners. I don't know.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thx,
George

 

[kavyboy]

I haven't tried AP2, only AP1. AP1 is still very close to AP2, but will never improve much since development has stopped. As for corners, it can handle this stretch of 1488 in Texas at the speed limit (it automatically slows a bit):

However, that's really pushing it, and not recommended.

 

[Az_Rael]

You have verified the P85 does have AP? Those were rare cars and only made in late 2014 just before the D came out.

With that said, freeway driving on AP1 and AP2 is about equal right now. They each have different flaws that may make your experience worse or better.

For us, AP1 can track nicely in the RH lane without weaving at every entrance ramp like AP2 does. However, AP1 has a hard time with some lane markings that AP2 manages well. AP1 isn't as solid on tighter freeway curves, but is mostly acceptable. AP1 is much smoother accelerating and decelerating in traffic using TACC.

If there is a big price premium for AP2, I wouldn't pay it today. However, you are looking at a 3 vs an S, so two very different cars. The extra range on the 3 would beat out other considerations for me, honestly.

 

[George S. Bower]

With that said, freeway driving on AP1 and AP2 is about equal right now.

For us, AP1 can track nicely in the RH lane without weaving at every entrance ramp like AP2 does. However, AP1 has a hard time with some lane markings that AP2 manages well. AP1 isn't as solid on tighter freeway curves, but is mostly acceptable. AP1 is much smoother accelerating and decelerating in traffic using TACC.

I haven't tried AP2, only AP1. AP1 is still very close to AP2, but will never improve much since development has stopped. As for corners, it can handle this stretch of 1488 in Texas at the speed limit (it automatically slows a bit):

However, that's really pushing it, and not recommended.

both very helpful inputs thanks! That's a little better report than I was expecting.

 

[commasign]

I drive both regularly and think AP1 is smoother and more predictable than AP2. AP2 has more potential long term but in its current state it’s anxiety provoking due to phantom braking, and inconsistent and hesitant lane changes. AP1 in comparison “just works”. Quick and smooth lane changes. No phantom braking. Human-like speed adjustments. That said, I think AP2 will be equal to or better than AP1 within the next 12 months.

 

[George S. Bower]

However, you are looking at a 3 vs an S, so two very different cars. The extra range on the 3 would beat out other considerations for me, honestly.

I'm torn on M3. Great range but I've seen some Model S drivers switch to M3 and been disappointed.

I notice you had a P85D and now M3 LR RWD. How does the M3 stack up w/ your P85D? Are you wishing you went w/ the performance M3? Can you stand that trunk in the M3?

 

[George S. Bower]

I drive both regularly and think AP1 is smoother and more predictable than AP2. AP2 has more potential long term but in its current state it’s anxiety provoking due to phantom braking, and inconsistent and hesitant lane changes. AP1 in comparison “just works”. Quick and smooth lane changes. No phantom braking. Human-like speed adjustments. That said, I think AP2 will be equal to or better than AP1 within the next 12 months.

Thx. another good report on good old AP1.

I'd ask the same question to you as AZ Rael-- after having a MS P85D and a MX 90D. How does your M3 stack up?

Just noticed your from Davis, Ca. LOL I graduated from Davis Sr High in '67!

 

[Az_Rael]

I'm torn on M3. Great range but I've seen some Model S drivers switch to M3 and been disappointed.

I notice you had a P85D and now M3 LR RWD. How does the M3 stack up w/ your P85D? Are you wishing you went w/ the performance M3? Can you stand that trunk in the M3?

We still have the P85D. It is my husband's car. I went from a P85 to the 3. I was originally going to wait for the performance 3, but ended up getting in an accident in the P85 and had my hand forced early.

In the end, I am very happy with the switch even without the P and dont plan to trade up. The LR 3 is very peppy and comparable to a RWD P85. Maybe a bit slower off the line and at highway takeover speeds, but also smaller and fun as heck to drive curves with. The P85D is a whole different beast, of course.

Trunk space is very usable and we can fit all our suitcases in when going on a trip. The only time the S hatch comes into play is when we go camping and fill the car to the brim. We don't have kids, or big dogs, or hobbies with large items (bikes, etc) so that plays into not needing the extra S space much.

Even with the free supercharging the S has, the 3 is our go-to road trip car just because of the range. The LR 3 is a range king and we can usually skip 1 SC with it vs the P85D (which is running on the 21" wheels). The 3 also has a more comfortable suspension as our P85D is the early + version which is very sporty.

 

[George S. Bower]

We still have the P85D. It is my husband's car. I went from a P85 to the 3. I was originally going to wait for the performance 3, but ended up getting in an accident in the P85 and had my hand forced early.

In the end, I am very happy with the switch even without the P and dont plan to trade up. The LR 3 is very peppy and comparable to a RWD P85. Maybe a bit slower off the line and at highway takeover speeds, but also smaller and fun as heck to drive curves with. The P85D is a whole different beast, of course.

Trunk space is very usable and we can fit all our suitcases in when going on a trip. The only time the S hatch comes into play is when we go camping and fill the car to the brim. We don't have kids, or big dogs, or hobbies with large items (bikes, etc) so that plays into not needing the extra S space much.

Even with the free supercharging the S has, the 3 is our go-to road trip car just because of the range. The LR 3 is a range king and we can usually skip 1 SC with it vs the P85D (which is running on the 21" wheels). The 3 also has a more comfortable suspension as our P85D is the early + version which is very sporty.

@az rael
I would like the extra range as well. What do you think about the 18in wheels with Aero hubcaps versus the 19 in wheels ?
Personally I can't stand the look of the new Arrow hubcaps but if there really is a 10% degradation in range by going to the 19 inch wheels it's a tough decision.

 

[glide]

I still like AP1 over AP2 and I’ve used both.
It feels more smooth, predictable, and stable on the highways and can be used on backroads.

 

[Az_Rael]

@az rael
I would like the extra range as well. What do you think about the 18in wheels with Aero hubcaps versus the 19 in wheels ?
Personally I can't stand the look of the new Arrow hubcaps but if there really is a 10% degradation in range by going to the 19 inch wheels it's a tough decision.

I have the 19" wheels. I do not like the Aeros at all, so even if I had the 18" wheels, I still wouldn't drive with those caps.

I haven't missed the range. It might be 10%, but my understanding is Tesla sandbagged the 310 EPA range of the RWD LR Model 3, so you aren't losing that much over the rated range in the real world.
Here’s how Tesla played with EPA ratings to advertise all Model 3 versions with 310-mile range
I am not near my car, so don't have my lifetime wh/mile handy.

I am getting good life on my 19" OEM tires as I have 21K miles now and good treads even with only 1 rotation. I have heard complaints about the 18" OEM tires having very, very short lives.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I traded in a 2015 Model S w/AP1 in on a 2018 Model 3 with AP2

Here is how I'd break it down

TACC -> Win goes to AP1 for less false braking events.

Lane Steering in decent whether -> Slight win for AP2, but they're both pretty good

Lane Steering in bad weather -> Large win for AP2. It's pretty damn good at seeing the lines even when I have a hard time. It's pretty shocking really.

Steering Wheel Nag -> Not bad with a Model S. Pretty bad with a Model 3. This is because the torque sensor in a Model 3 simply isn't as good as the torque sensor in a Model S. Of course this is why all the "sleeping in a Tesla" videos of late are of a Model S.

Truck Lust -> AP1 had it the last time I used it, and AP2 doesn't have it. It's the tendency for the car to lose sight of the lines near a semi, and then get closer it (as it tries to re-acquire the line). I haven't heard any recent complaints about this with AP1 so maybe it's better now.

Summons -> Piece of crap on both. But, it's going to be updated soon for AP2 so I expect it to be a large win for AP2

NoA -> Piece of crap on AP2, but it will likely get better over the next 6 months. Feature doesn't exist on AP1.

Side/Blindspot Monitoring -> doesn't work on AP1. works okay on AP2 with the 360 degree visualization.

All in all AP2 is better, but I wouldn't say it's worth thousands more. Having a really good TACC system with very few false braking events makes AP1 pretty nice.

There are other differences between those two cars that should take precedence in terms of an actual decision unless AP is really important to you. If it is then I'd get the Model 3 as AP will get better in it over time, and you can upgrade the AP computer later on when that's released. With the Model S you're going to be limited by what it can currently do.

 

[commasign]

Thx. another good report on good old AP1.

I'd ask the same question to you as AZ Rael-- after having a MS P85D and a MX 90D. How does your M3 stack up?

Just noticed your from Davis, Ca. LOL I graduated from Davis Sr High in '67!

It’s like asking which of my kids I like best. S P85D is my commute car and fun car. X 90D is the family car. 3 P is the quick errand car and the show-off-to-friends car (and also technically the wife’s car). Of course there’s a lot overlap. If you come across a perfect condition, fully loaded P85D with Ludicrous Mode, LTE, and center console retrofits, and Plus Suspension (Nov 14 through April 2015) I’d say get that. Otherwise the Model 3 Performance is really compelling.

Yep, been in Davis on and off since the late 90’s. It’s become a Tesla town.

 

[George S. Bower]

NoA -> Piece of crap on AP2, but it will likely get better over the next 6 months. Feature doesn't exist on AP1.

.

NoA? I don't know that acronym

 

[commasign]

NoA? I don't know that acronym

Navigate on Autopilot. Newest feature for AP2 cars which allows car to automatically merge onto and exit highways, and (with user confirmation for now) will automatically switch lanes to pass slower cars and take interchanges.

 

[IchDochNicht]

I just drove about 400 miles with AP1 - today. It is wonderful in stop-and-go, as well as in light traffic.

- It maxes out at 90mph, which only works on very straight freeways anyway.
- Once there are bends, it seems to be limited by G-Force, or drifts out of the lane. It doesn't slow down for bends.
- If a car enters your lane within your set following-distance, it slows down rather apruptly - no human driver would do that.
- Similarly, during lane changes it sometimes makes unnecessary strong speed adjustments - those should be smoother.
- When there are concrete barriers on the edge of the lane (e.g. in Los Angeles construction zones). AP1 gets a bit too close for my comfort.
- I have not quite figured out why it sometimes remembers or resets to a lower speed after AP was deactivated for a short time.
- The new "nagging" function keeps thinking you are not touching the steering wheel when you hold it too lightly - a result of some idiots who abused the system.

Despite these shortcomings, it's a wonderful assistance system on long trips. It works reliably most of the time, and it's your job to be alert and take over when it can't. I never knew I needed this, until I got it. Now I don't want to miss it anymore.

 

[dedicatedtek]

It doesn't slow down for bends.

Disagree. As @kavyboy said earlier, and I've experienced, AP1 does indeed slow down for bends.

 

[mrElbe]

AP2 still does not read roadside speed limit signage but AP1 does. AP2 currently uses map data only which can be out of date.

 

[docherf]

I've got 2 Tesla's on my radar.

a used Model 3 LR RWD w/ AP

or an older Model S P85 RWD w/ Mobileye AP

So I have a question for the owners of the old AP that ran the Mobileye platform:

How does it compare w/ the latest and greatest AP?

Obviously the new system must be better, lots more cameras etc. but what are the specifics?

I would assume the old Mobileye system would be OK on a well marked straight and open interstate. ....but maybe it's not so good around corners. I don't know.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thx,
George

We have both AP 1 & 2. I prefer AP 1 , but they're very close. Our X with AP2 will kick me off for not enough wheel pressure even at times when I have both hands on the wheel. Very annoying.

Theoretically AP 2 will get a lot better, but not sure that I'd spend extra money for this unknown benefit.

Overall I love AP and wouldn't want a car without it.

 

[RDoc]

I've not driven much with AP2, but we are very happy with our AP1 car.

On S vs 3, I think the main issue is size, both good and bad. The S is great for 4 people and luggage and is very comfortable for trips. OTOH, I find the S a bit ungainly when maneuvering around stuff, but that's just me, I'm used to smaller cars. The S handling isn't elephantine, but it's definitely not nimble.