My coworker charges his M3 at his carport using the 110 on HOA's meter. He just arranged to pay HOA a fixed fee. It helps that his wife is part of the HOA board. For about 50 miles, you probably just use about $3 or less a day.
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How important is home charger really?
- Thread starter Mzab21
- Start date
My coworker charges his M3 at his carport using the 110 on HOA's meter. He just arranged to pay HOA a fixed fee. It helps that his wife is part of the HOA board. For about 50 miles, you probably just use about $3 or less a day.
I'm getting 6 miles per hour with a regular electrical socket in my garage. Voltage is 120 volts. Way more than enough for me (15 to 20 miles a day). I charge every third day - sometimes wait 4 days. I actually did not spend anything - just plugged it in.
Do the math. Not everyone needs to install a nema 14-50 socket. You gain nothing by faster charging. The car is parked at home for 14 hours overnight. That is 84 miles per day.
Charging at home is the key to having an good experience with an electric car. Having to drive out twice a week to supercharge for 30 minutes (assuming no wait) will make you wish you had bought a gasoline car.
If your daily drive is about 30 miles, you are likely to spend 35-50 miles on driving depending on your style and weather. Then, your car will lose some 5 miles at least on sentry. To be safe, it is 55 miles a day. You are advised to charger from 20% to 80%, so 60% of your range is 0.6*352 = 211 miles. 211/55 = 3.8. Sooooo, you will go to a supercharger every 3 or 4 days. I think many people live like that. However, if you have any option to charge at home (110V, or 240 V better), I really really encourage you to explore that option. And you don't need to buy Tesla charger, you only need a Nema14-50 adapter ($35 at Tesla) and an outlet. 150ft might be an issue though (whether you use Nema 14-50 or 110V), and I think your HOA may be rightfully not allowing any extension cord running through the neighborhood overnight.
I would look for another neighbor or neighbors with an electric car(s) and then go meet HOA's president or whoever you have there to convince her/him that the future has suddenly arrived.
I would look for another neighbor or neighbors with an electric car(s) and then go meet HOA's president or whoever you have there to convince her/him that the future has suddenly arrived.
gavine
Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
Regarding 110V charging, don't forget you have the weekend to add extra range since you presumably won't be commuting. That could make-up for any losses during the week. A weekend of 110V charging can equal a supercharger session basically.
I wouldn't recommend an EV to anyone unless if they have reliable charging where it's parked often like at home or work. Having to rely on DCFC for daily commuting isn't an upgrade from ICE vehicles.
I'm sure there's plenty of folks out there who only supercharge their Teslas but it's just not that convenient compared to filling up at a gas station for a couple minutes once a week.
I'm sure there's plenty of folks out there who only supercharge their Teslas but it's just not that convenient compared to filling up at a gas station for a couple minutes once a week.
garth_angst
Member
Other factors to consider:
I looked up weather in Montery and it looks like it goes down into the 40's at night for a few months. You will not get your stated range when driving in the cold (I find anything below 60 will limit the range).
Unless you drive like your grandmother, you are also not going to get your stated range. I actually got my stated range for the first 5 months or so, sometimes getting more, as on Long Island, the max speed is 55 and there is always traffic, so there was no driving over 65 (except the few times I had to show off a little - haha). I was averaging around 208 Wh/M during that warm period of the year I got the car in May 2019. I lost about 24-35% range come the winter, which you will not have, but you are not in LA.
joebruin77
Active Member
Agreed. I have a Tesla Wall Connector installed at my home. Something happened to it a few months in and Tesla replaced it free of charge under the warranty. However, between the time the unit was replaced and installed by my electrician, I was without access to it for about 4 weeks. Yes, I was able to manage without it but I really did not like the experience of having to hunt for alternative places to charge during those 4 weeks. So much so, that when I had the Wall Connector reinstalled, I also had my electrician put in a Nema 14-50 outlet as a backup in case the Wall Connector ever goes down again.
BTW, I went on a trip to Carmel this past summer and stopped at the earlier mentioned Monterey Supercharger. It seemed to be a popular and crowded supercharger. As more and more people buy Teslas, you may need to wait to charge at this and other popular Superchargers.
If you can get the HOA to do two things, you will be all set:
1. From that shed's panel, allow you to have an electrician install a 6-20 outlet on the outside of the shed, nearest your car's spot. 20A (16 continuous) at 240V will add 150+ miles to an M3, overnight. The outlet would really be only usable by you, since an oddly-shaped, 240V outlet won't do anyone else any good. Adding a single, 20A circuit will likely not need a panel upgrade, so you're only talking about a $300 job.
2. Agree on a flat rate for you to pay, monthly. For your stated usage, $20 to 30 per month would be about right, depending on electric rates in your area. You could easily do the math on your ranges and charge rates to show the HOA, and agree to an annual audit of miles driven to confirm estimated kWh used.
IMO, that would be the cheapest and easiest way to give you not only adequate charging, but plenty enough capacity for you to, say, top off before leaving on a road trip on Friday afternoon or tank all the way up at home after returning from a road trip Sunday night.
I think the 6-20 would cover 99% of the BEV population; it is far overlooked, IMO.
I had an electrician out a few days ago. Our condos were built in the 1970’s and we would require a major overhaul to even think about adding any more power. All individual and house panels are the dreaded Zinsco...... even swapped out they couldn’t handle much more power.
Also, HOA would never agree to a random
monthly fee. I’m here in California, and actually already have the application in with PGE for a separate meter to the panel in the maintenance shed. The electrician said he could install a 208v outlet to a 30amp breaker no problem. Honestly, with the 30-40 miles I drive daily, charging would be fine with even a 110v outlet.
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TheRFMan
Member
I can see what an electrician wouldn't add anything to a Zinsco panel. Might be worth looking to replacing that regardless of EV usage, if only for peace of mind.
Yes, F14Scott is right. We have our own house so had a 14-50 240V plug put in. For the first few months we used the portable charger that came with the car, which is limited to 32A. That gave us 47km/hr or about 32mi/hr. (The difference here is that in winter wonderland, you use a lot more battery just heating the car).
So if you get a 20A or 30A circuit, code says you only use 80% of that continuous (16A or 24A). Still that will work fine for what you want. Buy the appropriate plug end for your mobile charger and away you go. Also, if you have a secure garage you can possibly dispense with sentry mode (option - no sentry mode at home) We schedule our charging to start at 1AM when it won't conflict with other appliances (to not pop our 100A service's breaker); I don't know how power is calculated where you are, but also you can schedule to start charge at low cost times if your electricity is time or rate metered. Worst case you went on an extended trip and charging back to 70%/80% may take two nights or more.
Maybe you can ask the HOA management what was the shed's bill and settle on "I will pay whatever is above the last year's average" until they can assess how much you draw.
So if you get a 20A or 30A circuit, code says you only use 80% of that continuous (16A or 24A). Still that will work fine for what you want. Buy the appropriate plug end for your mobile charger and away you go. Also, if you have a secure garage you can possibly dispense with sentry mode (option - no sentry mode at home) We schedule our charging to start at 1AM when it won't conflict with other appliances (to not pop our 100A service's breaker); I don't know how power is calculated where you are, but also you can schedule to start charge at low cost times if your electricity is time or rate metered. Worst case you went on an extended trip and charging back to 70%/80% may take two nights or more.
Maybe you can ask the HOA management what was the shed's bill and settle on "I will pay whatever is above the last year's average" until they can assess how much you draw.
Anyone have experience just charging at 240 volts, 20 amps? If so, do you ever feel like you needed more or does it work out in reality?
Each person's needs are different. There will be a decent number of people who have 10 mile commutes and would never need more than a 120V outlet, and others who are lets say real estate salespeople who might need all the charge they can get at mid-day when they stop home for lunch or whatever. Or those that have a 50 mile commute, but a very short time-of-use window where their electricity costs are low.
240/20 is not a slow charge at all. Its not a 'fast' charge, but even in Maine in Winter, its likely to be plenty.
I have a 240/40 amp HPWC now, and realized after a month or two of ownership(late 2018) that I really didn't NEED an HPWC at all. I'm sure that in the 36k miles of usage so far, I could count on one hand the number of times I needed faster than 240/20.
Mrbrock
Active Member
Also remember to factor in non commute miles. Trips to the store and whatnot. Those all take range away. It may not seem like much but I’d say you will want to charge every 3 days. Last thing you want is to need to run out in an emergency and not have enough charge to get where you are going. That is why being able to charge daily is important. I charge at work and it takes 10% to get home so I am at 80%. Don’t really have to worry about charging unless it’s a long trip and usually then we just plan a SC stop somewhere along the trip. I tried charging every 3 days but inevitably had a couple unplanned trips that required finding a SC first to even attempt so went back to daily charging.
I did the same thing this past week and was at 80% Tuesday night and only used about 40% over the 5 day holiday and made it to work at about 20%. Definitely doable but much easier if you top up daily.
I did the same thing this past week and was at 80% Tuesday night and only used about 40% over the 5 day holiday and made it to work at about 20%. Definitely doable but much easier if you top up daily.
If you wanted to put in a Tesla Wall Connector, it looks like Tesla will be enabling billing eventually: Tesla is adding automatic payment at chargers to facilitate apartment charging and more - Electrek
There are other EVSE manufacturers, such as ChargePoint, which might work for your needs if you didn't want to go with a Tesla Wall Connector.
Either solution would allow you to reimburse your HOA for your actual charging usage.
There are other EVSE manufacturers, such as ChargePoint, which might work for your needs if you didn't want to go with a Tesla Wall Connector.
Either solution would allow you to reimburse your HOA for your actual charging usage.
Rule of thumb - 32A/240V charges about 47km/hr or about 29mi/hr; 40A/240V at 58k/hr or about 35mi/hr (LRAWD). I charge to 80% so about 370km (230mi?) the way Tesla calculates battery capacity with my driving.
So 20A, presumably about 17mi/hr. But then a 20A/240V circuit should only draw 16A continuous (electrical code) so a 20A plug will charge about 14mph. If you get home at 6PM and depart at 8AM, for example, you can charge the whole time and add about 200mi. If you consistently do more than 200mi/day, you need more amperage. The thing is, if it's an occasional thing, you don't need to charge to full (80%) all at once,
I have read that 110V/15A standard wall socket will charge at 3m/h (5k/h). For smaller commutes, that may actually work; and then catch up on weekends.
My problem is that in cold Canadian winters. you will use a lot more than the rated mileage to drive stop-and-go at -20. A 110V socket just wouldn't do.
So 20A, presumably about 17mi/hr. But then a 20A/240V circuit should only draw 16A continuous (electrical code) so a 20A plug will charge about 14mph. If you get home at 6PM and depart at 8AM, for example, you can charge the whole time and add about 200mi. If you consistently do more than 200mi/day, you need more amperage. The thing is, if it's an occasional thing, you don't need to charge to full (80%) all at once,
I have read that 110V/15A standard wall socket will charge at 3m/h (5k/h). For smaller commutes, that may actually work; and then catch up on weekends.
My problem is that in cold Canadian winters. you will use a lot more than the rated mileage to drive stop-and-go at -20. A 110V socket just wouldn't do.
The 3 miles per hour figure is for the model S. The model M3 gets at least 5 miles per hour.
I'm getting 6 miles per hour charging from a garage wall outlet. Our voltage is 120 volts. I only fill up to 80% every 3 to 4 days (and I do a lot of short trips, daily). After 4 days, the car will have around 40% to 50% charge. A 240 volt circuit is totally unnecessary (for me).
My wife is getting a Tesla. We will still get by with one 120 volt outlet.
TheRFMan
Member
120V charging is not too bad in warm climates. Below freezing, you can't really preheat much at all on 120V, and even keeping the battery warm during charging will use a significant proportion of the available 1.4kW of power you can get from a standard outlet.
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