aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
Same conversation at my house and the same results.
I certainly hope we are all over-reacting to the sig seats and miss information given by Tesla (which is limited and suspect at best).
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How important is it for you that the 2nd row seats of the Model X are stowable?
- Thread starter Yggdrasill
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- Model X
I certainly hope we are all over-reacting to the sig seats and miss information given by Tesla (which is limited and suspect at best).
I agree with this.
Further, I think the falcon wing doors eliminate the possibility for attachment of the seat belts to the roof of the vehicle -- where they normally would attach, there is no roof, only door, and the belt can't be attached to the door. Therefore, the only way to run the seat's belt is to attach it to the seat, which means the seat must be extremely strong to survive the force exerted by 3 adults in a collision.
I think they thought they had a folding design that would work, but it did not. Is that the reason to start building their own seats? Seems likely, as the response time to work with a supplier to do testing and make changes is perhaps the issue with getting the seats working.
For my answer to the survey, I need the ability to sleep in the back of the vehicle (please, no "owners of $100k cars should not sleep in them" comments -- it is my planned use to do more backroad travel, including occasional overnight stays in RV parks). I could do that in a MS, but I also need to be able to tow a small trailer frequently, which the MS is not approved for, and I'm not comfortable with that.
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It would be nice with folding 2nd row seats, but it's not a deal breaker. When we need lot of storage in the car it is typically when we go on vacation (family of four with occational guests). The luggage consists of bags and toys and stuff that can be piled up behind, on- and under the seats. We almost never have a need to haul large monolitic objects that would require the aft five seats to somehow magically disappear. With a car this expensive I would probably not haul plywood sheets or furnitures anyway, even if there was ample space. There is always home delivery and rentals for those rare occasions.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Good poll Yggradsil. I voted I require them to stow somehow. And I expect them to. Anythings else would be such a big fail it's just not fathomable Tesla would be able to do it.
Soolim
Member
At this time, being production constraints with lots of reservation holder, Tesla can afford to do what they prefer to optimize production. One possibility will be the no fold flat, but just stow away design for now, and then fold flat at a later date (if feasible). So if the SUV/CUV does not meet your needs for now, you may have to wait some more :frown:
I was labeled an armchair designer when I floated the idea of alternative seat design a few months ago. I still think this could be one possible outcome.
I was labeled an armchair designer when I floated the idea of alternative seat design a few months ago. I still think this could be one possible outcome.
I picked "I require that the 2nd row seats stow in some manner, but I do not require a flat cargo bay." as I'm somewhere in between must fold flat and this. If the 2nd row can be positions as to give at least enough length space to at least meet if not exceed that on the Model S, I think I'm good.
As far as what length of space: If I can't put storm door (still in packaging) and close the rear lift gate without it entering in to the front row in some sort of twisted fashion, I'll reconsider. My S can do that! The X better do it better... Actually I'm more positive on it than that.
Positive thinking...
As far as what length of space: If I can't put storm door (still in packaging) and close the rear lift gate without it entering in to the front row in some sort of twisted fashion, I'll reconsider. My S can do that! The X better do it better... Actually I'm more positive on it than that.
Positive thinking...
It is good to have royalty on this forum. We need a little positive attitude. I agree with the notion that non flat folding seats are not a 'deal breaker' for me (even though I would prefer it). I am willing to wait and see the reveal and any 'EM magic' that might allow more room (not cubic, linear) in the back of the X than the back of the S.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
I agree Alan, let's stay positive on this. Elon knows how important interior design is. If you don't believe me check this out:
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Yeah, those seats don't fold either. And that has 9 falcon thrusters, not 2 falcon wings. I heard from a reliable source (someone that used to play poker with Elon Musk) that Elon doesn't like folding. <Please forgive the bad pun>
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Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
I sure hope they haven't missed the mark, but there are plenty of historic examples where successful and/or forward thinking companies have messed up products quite badly.
Examples:
(1) The original Intel Pentium processor shipped with a floating point bug (FDIV instruction).
(2) Apple began selling the Macintosh with a paltry 128kb of RAM. Luckily, the engineering team saved Steve Jobs from his own arrogance by secretly designing the Mac's system board to be able to accommodate more memory.
(3) Coca-Cola attempted to reformulate its flagship Coke to "new Coke", which failed spectacularly.
I think that even if Tesla does miss the mark in the short term, they are nimble enough to come up with a solution in a matter of months.
With 84 votes cast, only 40% don't view the 2nd row issue as a dealbreaker. Let us hope that that the 60% aren't disappointed.
In each one of those examples, the companies were financially strong enough to afford those mistakes. Tesla simply cannot afford to make one mistake.
Depends if it's just an aesthetic solution or if there is something structural about the X that makes folding seats impossible. If it's the latter, there probably will not be a model 3.
I agree with anticitizen13.7, Elon Musk is one shrewd individual and he will quickly notice if there is a 2nd row problem and have a solution in no time. Elon has this ability to quickly spot issues and then laser focus on it until its solved. He's done that many times already, and I see no reason why he will fail now.
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
I don't think that's a given, because Tesla's new manufacturing line was designed to be flexible. If Model X doesn't sell as well as expected, or has a slower ramp than expected, Model S can fill the gaps. I don't think there's any shortage of demand for Model S. Remember that PowerPack and PowerWall stationary storage also exists as a potentially huge revenue stream.
This is a much different situation than the Model S launch, where a product mistake probably would have doomed the company. When Model S was launched over 3 years ago, Tesla had no other major revenue source. Roadster production was winding down. If Model S hasn't been a success, there would have been no revenue and no other product to generate significant future revenue.
When I last checked Tesla's financial statements, revenue from Model S had very healthy margins for an automobile (something like 22-23%). R&D costs are what make Tesla run at a loss right now.
I could buy a Model S, and have more storage if the seats don't fold. All the years of having an SUV was the ability, on occasion, to move or handle large items. That's been the case with electric fold flat in my Navigator and currently in my Audi Q7. I rejected the Escalade, since on had to remove the third row to get space...where to I store the seat? If the Model X can hold four sets of Golf Clubs and their respective owners, then not a deal breaker, which I can do in my Q7.
Not a deal breaker but I would like the entire area to be used for storage. Interesting that most reponders don't need it to be completely flat.
This. If Model X second row doesn't fold or reasonably stow. Most likely safety issues with the folding design.
Elon at GM/CC hinted at the second row being hard.
Eds was widely assumed to be from the seat contractor and he/she said early cars were compromised and he/she would not buy one. Lacking folding second row would certainly constitute as compromised if that feature appears six months down the road.
goneskiian
Active Member
Most likely the case here too depending on how much space is available behind the 2nd row.
