Mike, I agree. I feel it must have more linear, not just cubic, space in the back with the third seat down and whatever happens with the second seat when compared with the S. I doubt that the option will be the easy removal of the second row seat but one never knows.
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How important is it for you that the 2nd row seats of the Model X are stowable?
- Thread starter Yggdrasill
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- Model X
Merrill
Merrill
Just about every SUV I have seen has the rear seat able to fold down. We currently have a 99 ML430 and the rear seat fold, not completely flat but pretty close. The seat bottoms drop to floor level and the backs fold down on top of them. It does give you room to haul lots of stuff. Would expect the Model X to do the same in some way.
Looking at the rather "meh" Model X interior (definitely not as forward-looking as the concept) and the lack of separate backrest/folding and headrest adjustment on the second row, I'd say Tesla's mantra of "production always better than concept" is rather out the window.
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I suppose reasonably most everyone expected that. Tesla showed the flat floor at the prototype unveil and re-iterated folding back on the update email in 2014.
And as you point out, pretty much all the competition has a folding second row.
BUT what if - as the likes of Eds hinted at - Tesla failed to make it work in time. That could mean launching a compromised version of the Model X. No matter how illogical and unreasonable that might otherwise seem.
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I suppose reasonably most everyone expected that. Tesla showed the flat floor at the prototype unveil and re-iterated folding back on the update email in 2014.
And as you point out, pretty much all the competition has a folding second row.
BUT what if - as the likes of Eds hinted at - Tesla failed to make it work in time. That could mean launching a compromised version of the Model X. No matter how illogical and unreasonable that might otherwise seem.
hoskme
Member
Deal breaker for us. If no folding or stowing 2nd row seats, we will look again at the Model S, or maybe back out completely, keep the Leaf and the hybid. Yesterday at a NDEW event I had an opportunity to compare a Model S 85 with a P85D. I was surprised by how much bigger the frunk is in the 85. The couple who ownned the 85 had a medium sized cooler tucked into the cubby hole in the back of the frunk.
I'm not in a rush. I was told that my X reservation would see production in about a year. Plenty of time for all to be revealed, and for many excellent reviews to grace the pages of this forum.
I'm not in a rush. I was told that my X reservation would see production in about a year. Plenty of time for all to be revealed, and for many excellent reviews to grace the pages of this forum.
What could such a limitation be? I'm 100% layman, but some have suggested that falcon wing doors could be an issue, since seats can't be anchored to c-pillar and that would cause that seats themself have to be stronger than normal seats. So folding mechanism would make seat too weak. But could this really be the case? Couldn't materials like titanium be strong enough? After all there are limitations what kind of g-forces human body can tolerate and if g-forces rip your internal organs before seat, the structure is strong enough. Of course exotic materials can be tough to master, but I can't imagine, that this issue would not be eventually solved.
Elon goes on about the better functionality than a normal door, but, I think the speed at which one can get in and out are a lot slower. I can open, get in and close a normal car door in under 2 seconds and not have to fully open it either. I am not sure that will be possible with the falcon wing doors.
It's impossible to say without seeing the actual car itself which is another story in itself. When the concept car was first shown, Tesla was extolling the virtues of the folding seats and all the space it provided. If the seats do not fold and they took it away, it has to be something preventing them from implementing it, most likely the doors. That's the only major body difference between the X and every other SUV that does have folding seats.
I guess the point wasn't making folding second row with integrated seatbelts was impossible, or even improbable - just that if Tesla didn't do it, then it seems they ran into problems that they couldn't fix in time. Hence possibly (we speculate) shipping a constrained Model X at launch and introducing folding second row in a product update somewhere down the road, once they get it all done.
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Like I wrote in a light-hearted thread way back when, I'm sure I will hate the falcon wings in practice (even more so if they deny initial folding seats) - but got to have them.
I've been thinking a lot about this topic over the last couple of weeks. I've come to the conclusion that if Tesla formally confirms what all suspect (that the sig seats don't fold down but there will be that option for the production model) I'll probably have to defer to the the regular production vehicle. Given the ubiquity of this feature in CUVs I'm shocked Tesla hasn't incorporated it.
We'll know much more in a couple weeks.
We'll know much more in a couple weeks.
This is an SUV for crying out loud. If they don't fold down in some form of another the public will rip him apart. It will be the biggest mistake he has made at Tesla. Elon will have taken leave of his senses.
"Here's my $80+ car, but can't fold those seats down..." It will be a joke.
"Here's my $80+ car, but can't fold those seats down..." It will be a joke.
I'm fairly confident that Tesla monitors TMC and TM forums and by now understands the importance of a folding 2nd row. I suspect they'll have some kind of side-announcement on September 29th that will put our fears to rest and make it sound like it was their plan from the start.
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
I hope you are right and if so I think we can chalk it up to a win for the Internet and TMC as well as the Tesla X forum.
I don't really care if they switched ideas after this feedback or that they were keeping all of this a secret from the start, just as long as I get my U in the MX. I can wait a year or more if needed for them to resolve this.
But folding second row seats was the idea from the beginning and shown at the reveal in 2012. It was still the plan as late as June 16, 2014, where in an email to Model X reservation holders Tesla stated "You’ll also be able to fold down the second and third rows to create a flat platform for storage".
Unless the 2nd row seats fold or move out of the way somehow (which appears to be denied by Tesla when asked by multiple people), this is a major fail by Tesla. Why in the world would Elon change this essential feature? If it was simply to allow the 2nd row seats to rotate 90 degrees to improve entry/exit; it is a very poor decision. Sacrificing utility of carrying capacity to improve entry/exit is not even close to being a reasonable trade.
I certainly hope this is not the case, but if so I think I will not be proceeding with buying a Model X (res # 95XX) to complement my P85.
Elon Musk aged 5x the normal speed 2013-2015?
He needs to learn to get new friends and how to delegate, or equivalent, to stop his excess aging. After I watched the above (I wanted fullscreen so I copied share URL and reopened), I kept clicking on Youtube suggestions and saw an interview of him four days ago (2015-09-09). After that, there was a picture of another interview of him just two years prior (2013). He looks ten years younger in 2013 (he aged 5x the speed of normal). That happened to me in one job too.
He needs to learn to get new friends and how to delegate, or equivalent, to stop his excess aging. After I watched the above (I wanted fullscreen so I copied share URL and reopened), I kept clicking on Youtube suggestions and saw an interview of him four days ago (2015-09-09). After that, there was a picture of another interview of him just two years prior (2013). He looks ten years younger in 2013 (he aged 5x the speed of normal). That happened to me in one job too.
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Well, the simple but costly solution would be to promise everyone ordering now free folding second-row seats retrofitted once available - akin to P85D seats.
Another simple but a bit less costly would be to offer the folding seats retrofit as an order-time, say, $1000 option. Might not recoup the whole cost of retrofit, but would allow some who want the feature to proceed with their order while letting those (and Tesla) who don't need it save a bit. Eventually that option would become standard and those who ordered the option would get their retrofit.
It would just seem odd to make people pay for something that is pretty much universally expected in that car class. Its like asking people to pay extra for power locks in a luxury car.
Just trying to be practical.
I'm sure, if folding 2nd doesn't ship with Model X, Tesla wanted to have folding second row. If they just couldn't get it done yet, nor could they delay the launch anymore (just ask Eds for some pertinent stock price speculation)... then they'd need to ship the cars with non-folding seats and that costs money. As would retrofitting a folding version later.Thus putting a price on the folding functionality (to be installed later) would allow Tesla to limit a little those opting for the folding (and thus retrofitting costs) and secondly get back some of that cost of retrofitting, while still allowing those to proceed with the order for whom the folding functionality is mandatory. Others could choose to not order the car yet and later get the folding seats for free, but I'm pretty sure many hesitant people would be happy to order the car sooner if they knew they will get folding later - even if it costs them $1000 or something.
Anyway, just a silly idea.
Lack of folding seats in an SUV/CUV is, of course, equally silly so all this is very befitting.
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Tesla may have made the second row independently-moving to compensate for this. So they're like yeah, they don't fold, but they move individually!
