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How is FSD ever going to work with current camera layout?

I’ve been using FSD beta which is both impressive and problematic. But the real question is - if FSD is going to use camera only (radar and ultrasonics now removed), there’s a huge blind spot between the front windshield camera and the side fender cameras. At least half of my left and right turns require checking for cross traffic that there is no way either camera can capture. If you have a T intersection at a perfect 90 degree angle, the cameras can’t see cross traffic unless the car creeps out and angles itself significantly. This can never be a real solution, it’s too slow and dangerous. What do you guys think the solution will be?
 

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I don't have FSD, but based on my the Traffic Aware Cruise Control in my M3LR and its lack of accuracy, I would never want FSD and/or never trust it. And now that Tesla has dropped the radar, it's probably less accurate. It strikes me that these systems were made with a California climate in mind, and designed for major roads and highways, not rural backroads, heavy rain or any amount of snow and sleet.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
12,115
11,140
Visalia, CA
... blind spot...
Old news. Tesla design cannot take a frame of 360 bird's eye view while other cheaper brands can.

Tesla's theory is it can overcome a blind spot with the computing power of object permanence.

If your mannequin is short enough, the blind spot would prevent the camera from spotting it due to the height of the hood in front.

However, when your cameras don't see that short mannequin, the computer could recall that there was one prior to disappearing into the blind spot. Of course your car would brake and not hit the obstacle hidden in a blind spot.

Remember, it should work by using object permanence because an 8 month old baby could get that skill.

In reality, latest Tesla FSD beta still continues to kill Dan O'Dowd short mannequin.
 
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Spoiler: it won’t work with the current cameras, or probably at all.
Agreed! It’s the reason why Tesla is working on autopilot 4.0 hardware including 5mp cameras.

 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
4,851
4,604
Maine
I would just watch a few of the FSD beta videos from the past month, the ones using the "object" based system. Dirty Tesla, Whole Mars Catalog, AI Driver are some good ones.

The idea of FSD did concern me because of the reliance upon seeing the road's lines meant that snow coating a road would disable FSD, or dirt roads, etc. However, having seen the "object" based system, it handles dirt roads where there are no lines, increasingly well. I think the video I saw recently, probably Dirty Tesla, he says he can driver over 50mph on dirt roads. I never do that, our dirt roads are too potholed, but that's impressive. Plus the pedestrian avoidance around U of Michigan is impressive. And, the videos in San Francisco around narrow, crooked one-laners is also impressive.
 
I am very attentive in autopilot. I don’t trust it enough not to be, but the way they detect hands on the wheel sucks. I can get it just right and not get nagged but I have to hold the wheel perfectly so that It feels me but I don’t take over. Even then on a straight away it will nag me because it doesn’t move the wheel enough to feel my torque. The scroll/button press was a nice addition if it didn’t require turning my music/speed up or down every 10 seconds.

I think they should have a merit based system on the nag. For new EAP users nag them every ten seconds like it does today. After 500 AP miles give them a bit more time between nags. At like 5k in autopilot, nag every five minutes or so of no action unless the car senses a situation that you should be watching. If you hit 25k in autopilot, leave you alone, you know how it works.

I agree. I got FSD beta a couple of months after a year waiting for full FSD beta and it is amazing, and I always pay attention and keep my hands on the wheel but one hand or two hands, any location, I hold with too light a pressure to avoid the nag and applying torque sometimes disengages when it doesn't need to disengage. I am jamming a bottle of Perrier in the lower quadrant of the wheel which reduces nag frequency especially if the road is bumpy but the end of the bottle sticks out so much it activates the turn signal / gear lever when the road curves, or, sticks towards me and will impale me if there is a crash.
I have 42.3 and this weekend I was still able to “nudge” the car over without disengaging AutoSteer.

It takes so little effort to satisfy the nags every now and then.

Lately as of this date it's every 35 seconds.
 
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If you refer to Tesla's website, there may be a very narrow blind spot facing forward to the left and right, out of range of the wide forward facing camera.


Don't forget that you have 5 forward facing cameras. Three are near the rearview mirror, and two (as previously mentioned) are on your B pillars.
 

kabin

Active Member
Nov 23, 2021
1,000
1,234
Southwest
Spoiler: it won’t work with the current cameras, or probably at all.

Probably so. No doubt the hardware and NN designs are impressive but it's the system design, integration, and test that's failing. I hope I'm wrong but targeting the brightest from the best schools with biased ideas and you end up being a hammer that sees the world as a nail. And from there it's a slippery slope of patents, wasted funds, but never getting to the finish line.
 

KArnold

Active Member
May 21, 2017
1,219
1,410
Columbus OH
Spoiler: it won’t work with the current cameras, or probably at all.

We need to be careful as to what "it" is. I know, Elon has specifically said "level 5" at least once. He has also said "all who paid for it and has the right hardware will have FSD by the end of this year".

Is it a given that future AP computers, radars, cameras, and HW4 will be installed on my '17 MS for free since I've purchased FSD? Let alone the thousands of M3/MY folks. I don't know but it seems unlikely.

My prediction is that FSDB will indeed be available to all, perhaps this year. But it will be only slightly better than what we are driving today. Elon will label it "beta" as a CYA but consider it to be "delivered" .

Now you want L5 FSD? Pony up another $15k and buy a new model with "RealFSD".

Honestly I hope I'm wrong.
 

glide

Well-Known Member
Jun 6, 2018
5,624
8,012
USA
We need to be careful as to what "it" is. I know, Elon has specifically said "level 5" at least once. He has also said "all who paid for it and has the right hardware will have FSD by the end of this year".

Is it a given that future AP computers, radars, cameras, and HW4 will be installed on my '17 MS for free since I've purchased FSD? Let alone the thousands of M3/MY folks. I don't know but it seems unlikely.

My prediction is that FSDB will indeed be available to all, perhaps this year. But it will be only slightly better than what we are driving today. Elon will label it "beta" as a CYA but consider it to be "delivered" .

Now you want L5 FSD? Pony up another $15k and buy a new model with "RealFSD".

Honestly I hope I'm wrong.
“It” at this point means any iteration of FSD. That includes L2.

They can’t even get that right with the software/hardware they have. L5 is a total pipe dream.
 
I would just watch a few of the FSD beta videos from the past month, the ones using the "object" based system. Dirty Tesla, Whole Mars Catalog, AI Driver are some good ones.

The idea of FSD did concern me because of the reliance upon seeing the road's lines meant that snow coating a road would disable FSD, or dirt roads, etc. However, having seen the "object" based system, it handles dirt roads where there are no lines, increasingly well. I think the video I saw recently, probably Dirty Tesla, he says he can driver over 50mph on dirt roads. I never do that, our dirt roads are too potholed, but that's impressive. Plus the pedestrian avoidance around U of Michigan is impressive. And, the videos in San Francisco around narrow, crooked one-laners is also impressive.
I still get a ton of phantom braking on curved two lane roads, especially at night. If the car sees oncoming headlights from far away but can’t see the lane marker, it assumes the car is coming towards me and phantom breaks until the car is closer and FSD realizes it’s on the other side of the double solids.
 
Each FSD release has improved my experience with it and decreased my needing to take over. Yesterday I had my first zero intervention drive in Lexington on this version. Very promising.

I don’t trust it in bad weather yet. And the auto-high beams not being courteous keeps me from using it at night much. They need to get matrix lights working.

The path to L3 seems clear from here.
L4, probably a few years still.
L5… decade… Too many corner cases in the march of 9’s. I don’t see robotaxies without geofences being achievable for a while.
 

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