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How is the 3 without the HEPA filter?

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Do you smell anything if you are behind a dirty diesel truck spewing out black smoke? While going past some sort of smelly plant or fertilized farmland? Any pollen getting in?
We were driving north up I-5 during the Paradise fire, and watched the world turn dark and brown around us. We smelled nothing inside the car. When we stopped at a rest area and got out, we were almost choked by the smoke. We were astounded what a good job the car was doing of providing clean air.
 
We were driving north up I-5 during the Paradise fire, and watched the world turn dark and brown around us. We smelled nothing inside the car. When we stopped at a rest area and got out, we were almost choked by the smoke. We were astounded what a good job the car was doing of providing clean air.

Assuming that was with recirculate on the whole time?
 
I tested multiple ones, even tested both cars with the same tire on (winter tires). It is night and day really which isn’t really surprising.

Cant’t see how the Pilot Sport 4s on the P would be much softer than whats on the LR.

In another thread someone reported that the 2020 performance is much stiffer riding than earlier model performance, so perhaps they've changed the suspension. In 2019 and before the only difference between performance and other cars aside from motors/power is 10mm lower springs and different wheels/tires. If you tested with same wheels/tires, not sure how 10mm lower springs can make a lot more noise.
 
But seriously I can relate with most of your concerns but the way you worded things makes you come across a little snobbish. “Hey guys your car is a cheap piece of junk but please tell me about that HEPA filter!” I mean, was it necessary to preface your question with the whole “I hate to be settling for this cheap Model 3 since my Model S was so much better” rant?

Well maybe, maybe not. I think it provides context where my thoughts are and why I might care a lot about a thing like HEPA filtration, it might be the last straw so to say. Everyone cannot like all the cars and why would it matter to someone else what I think about the 3? I am plenty critical about the S as well if that makes you feel better.

Also you are building quite a straw man if you are trying to pin those "quotes" on me. My post only said I find the 3 feeling quite cheap and noisy compared to the S, which is something most people already say is one of the differences between them. It has been a big critique of Tesla since they started, their interior quality and material selection is not competing at their price point. There are plenty of upsides as well to the 3 but those aren't a reason why I am on the fence since many of the upsides revolve around things that I no longer have much use for like driving dynamics. If you read my post again you will see me talking about settling was only referencing settling for the LR AWD acceleration instead of the P acceleration that I wanted.

I wonder how you feel when you have to fly for a long trip?
With the air recirculation inside airplanes, I always feel sick when I arrive at destination.

Well I feel bad in the airplane atmosphere for multiple reasons, but with the air I think it is mostly how dry it is. But maybe you are right.

In another thread someone reported that the 2020 performance is much stiffer riding than earlier model performance, so perhaps they've changed the suspension. In 2019 and before the only difference between performance and other cars aside from motors/power is 10mm lower springs and different wheels/tires. If you tested with same wheels/tires, not sure how 10mm lower springs can make a lot more noise.

Sorry I should have been more clear, I tested with the same tires but in the difference sizes. So one was 20" low profile which is the standard on the P and another one in the 18" standard to the LR AWD. But it was the same winter tire with the same thread on both just difference sizes.
 
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I wonder how you feel when you have to fly for a long trip?
With the air recirculation inside airplanes, I always feel sick when I arrive at destination.
Airplanes don't use entirely recycled air, they use a mix of fresh air from outside and recycled air. Dyness of the air is the most likely culprit (and in fact, the more recycling is used the less dry it is).

The truth about cabin air - AskThePilot.com

On all modern aircraft, passengers and crew breathe a mixture of fresh and recirculated air. Using this combination rather than fresh air only makes it easier to regulate temperature and helps maintain a bit of humidity (more on the humidity in a moment). The supply is bled from the compressor sections of the engines. Compressed air is very hot, but the compressors only compress; there is no contact with combustion gasses. From there it is plumbed into air conditioning units for cooling. It’s then ducted into the cabin through louvers, vents, and the eyeball gaspers above your seat. The AC units are known to pilots as “packs.” That’s an acronym for pneumatic air cycle kit. Usually there are two per plane.

The air circulates until eventually it is drawn into the lower fuselage, where about half of it is vented overboard—sucked out by the pressurization outflow valve. The remaining portion is remixed with a fresh supply from the engines and run through filters, and the cycle begins again.

Studies have shown that a crowded airplane is no more germ-laden than other enclosed spaces—and usually less. Those underfloor filters are described by manufacturers as being of hospital quality. I needn’t be reminded that hospitals are notorious viral incubators, but Boeing says that between 94 and 99.9 percent of airborne microbes are captured, and there’s a total changeover of air every two or three minutes — far more frequently than occurs in offices, movie theaters, or classrooms.

...

If passengers have one very legitimate gripe, it’s about dryness. Indeed, the typical cabin is exceptionally dry and dehydrating. At around 12 percent humidity, it is drier than you will find in most deserts. This is chiefly a by-product of cruising at high-altitudes, where moisture content is somewhere between low and nonexistent. Humidifying a cabin would seem a simple and sensible solution, but it’s avoided for different reasons.

...

None of this is disputing that people don’t occasionally become unwell from flying. While the air is clean, the dryness is bad for sinuses and can break down mucous barriers, making it easier to catch what bugs might be present. Usually, though, it’s not what passengers are breathing that makes them sick. It’s what they are touching: lavatory door handles, contaminated trays and armrests, etc. A little hand sanitizer is probably a better safeguard than the masks I occasionally see passengers wearing.
 
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Our 3 has much more dust, pollen and outside smells than our S. I can’t recall ever noticing outside smells while in our S.

Especially after the price drops in early 2019, $80k for the base Raven long range is the best value they have ever offered in the S. If they could only improve the interior to at least Mercedes E class level, it would be unquestionable since nobody else is close to the tech.
 
Assuming that was with recirculate on the whole time?
Well, it was a year ago, so I can’t say for sure. But the Camp Fire (I mistakenly called it the Paradise Fire above) was in November, so odds are we had heat on. We almost always have the climate system on Auto. Most cars don’t do recirc for heat to keep humidity from building up. So my assumption is recirc was off at the time.
 
Problem I am having is since our use case for a car at all is very low I don’t wanna spend too much, but owning an EV and specifically a Tesla has spoiled us so there aren’t many other cars we want :p. But yeah you got a point, my excitement for the 3 is quite low tbh.

Not good news really but thanks for sharing your experience! Stopping all smells really were one of the features that made the S feel so comfortable and futuristic. You felt more isolated from the traffic around you.

Do I understand correctly?

You don’t have much need for a car... it is mostly your wife’s want.

You owned a car that you describe as being so nice that it spoiled you?

You decided to sell the car that “spoiled” you at some depreciated value.

You didn’t have a purchase lined up, but you had decided to buy a car that you consider “cheap” in quality.

No other cars brands would satisfy you; you consider one model by that maker cheap quality and the other model stellar.

It sounds to me like you would be dissatisfied with a cheap, smelly car that is either noisy or that has wheels you don’t like.

It sounds like you would be satisfied with the car that you sold that you says met your needs and desires to the point of spoiling you.

Maybe you would be best served by buying a used Tesla S.
 
Do I understand correctly?

You don’t have much need for a car... it is mostly your wife’s want.

You owned a car that you describe as being so nice that it spoiled you?

You decided to sell the car that “spoiled” you at some depreciated value.

You didn’t have a purchase lined up, but you had decided to buy a car that you consider “cheap” in quality.

No other cars brands would satisfy you; you consider one model by that maker cheap quality and the other model stellar.

It sounds to me like you would be dissatisfied with a cheap, smelly car that is either noisy or that has wheels you don’t like.

It sounds like you would be satisfied with the car that you sold that you says met your needs and desires to the point of spoiling you.

Maybe you would be best served by buying a used Tesla S.

Nope not even close to be honest.
 
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Well maybe, maybe not. I think it provides context where my thoughts are and why I might care a lot about a thing like HEPA filtration, it might be the last straw so to say. Everyone cannot like all the cars and why would it matter to someone else what I think about the 3? I am plenty critical about the S as well if that makes you feel better.

Also you are building quite a straw man if you are trying to pin those "quotes" on me. My post only said I find the 3 feeling quite cheap and noisy compared to the S, which is something most people already say is one of the differences between them. It has been a big critique of Tesla since they started, their interior quality and material selection is not competing at their price point. There are plenty of upsides as well to the 3 but those aren't a reason why I am on the fence since many of the upsides revolve around things that I no longer have much use for like driving dynamics. If you read my post again you will see me talking about settling was only referencing settling for the LR AWD acceleration instead of the P acceleration that I wanted.

Like I said, I actually agree with your assessment of the interior build quality of the Model 3. Even prior to buying my P3D, I knew it was subpar compared with other cars in the 70K price range. I was also considering a Model S 75D. Ultimately I chose the P3D because it was more fun to drive. And if I’m being honest, I don’t think the interior of the S (or X) is up to par either.

I understand you wanted to provide context but all I’m saying is you could have done so in a more humble manner. It’s not really what you say but how you say it. Especially on the internet where people can easily misconstrue your words. I’m sure your intentions weren’t to put down or offend anyone. And I’m probably making this a bigger deal than it is. I doubt anyone was that upset by your comments anyways. Maybe just a couple of chuckles and eye-rolls. Only reason I wanted to point it out is because sometimes as an outsider in a situation, we may lack the proper awareness of how others perceive us. I’m speaking from personally experience of course. But hey, maybe you couldn’t care less of how you are viewed :D Either way, I’m not here to tell you how to act. You do you, sir. Welcome to the boards.
 
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For the cabin noise at highway speeds: I find it roughly on par with my previous Prius Prime, maybe slightly louder. But I also usually have music or audiobooks on so I hardly notice it. I do sometimes drive in silence though so it is noticeable then.

As for the air filter, I have the “privilege” of living near a bunch of dairy farms. If I don’t turn on internal circulation I smell the manure. This has been true on my previous car and my Model 3. HEPA filters (which I use on my HVAC systems at home) would be nice. But using internal circ has never been a serious issue for me.

I get the feeling that people who came to Tesla from “normal” cars like me have very different perceptions than people who came from luxury cars. The Model 3 particularly seems to exist in this uneasy space between economy and luxury styling and interior. It’s all a matter of expectations I guess. I love my car fiercely, it’s the best one I’ve owned by far. But that may not be true for others.
 
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This. I truly don’t understand all the complaints about the car being noisy. For starters, it isn’t that loud without music/podcast on, but I didn’t realize that many people drove around in silence! Or is this just people looking to complain about something?

Not noticing the noise doesn’t physically remove the sound waves... It is still there making me tired, adding music on top would only Make that part worse. And no, I can’t really listen to music in the car either.
 
Well, that simply sucks. Seems like you are a tough person to please. Good luck in your search.

Not really tbh, I just want a Model 3 to be more like like the competitors from BMW/Audi and less like the ones from VW. That the 20" performance is noise isn't that weird since its the sports oriented one, but I do wish the car in general had more sound dampening from the start.

You can't keep selling cars with just great performance forever, especially once models like the Y arrives and should appeal to a completely different demographic. Wanting stuff to improve is important in a competitive market and I think the premium car features and build quality are one important thing to focus on going forward.
 
Pretty sure all the newer cars have solutions for recirculated air and CO2 level. Usually they just let in air every 10 to 20 min or they have build in CO2 detection and open the vent when needed. Living in LA, I used to have my car in recirculate full time and I drive 3+ hours a day. I can't do that with M3 as I also like to set the AC to auto and you can't do that with the M3 (auto + recirculate).

I recall not being able to control recirculate on the Model 3 when in Auto. But on Model X I can. I assumed code changed (I no longer have the Model 3). So is the S/X allowed to recirculate with Auto but not the 3?
 
Not really tbh, I just want a Model 3 to be more like like the competitors from BMW/Audi and less like the ones from VW. That the 20" performance is noise isn't that weird since its the sports oriented one, but I do wish the car in general had more sound dampening from the start.

You can't keep selling cars with just great performance forever, especially once models like the Y arrives and should appeal to a completely different demographic. Wanting stuff to improve is important in a competitive market and I think the premium car features and build quality are one important thing to focus on going forward.


This is why the S exists....