Eno Deb
Active Member
Almost all modern cars do this. The filters are typically attached to the HVAC assembly these days, which the re-circulated air has to pass through anyway (otherwise heating or A/C wouldn't work in re-circ mode).
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How is your Model 3 doing filtering out the smoke from the forest fires?
- Thread starter SMAlset
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- air filtering hepa Model 3 wildfire
Eno Deb
Active Member
Activated carbon is used to reduce odors and certain gases. It doesn't do anything for micro-particulates.
Incredulocious
LEAF → RAV4EV → Model 3 → Model Y
Well, that’s the weird thing. That product link I put in my YouTube video description is the product link from my Amazon order from just early this past week. However, it now shows a somewhat different looking product (same seller though) that I also remember looking at when I was comparison shopping. Most of the product description seems to be the same but mine is in a white case and has fewer buttons than the black one now shown in the Amazon listing. Perhaps they’ve changed the design and I happened to get one of the last of the white ones? I don’t know.Thanks for doing this!
Could you by any chance provide any details on the sensor you used? I'm happy to give you an Amazon referral for the one they have now, but I was a big fan of the one you showed in the video so I figured I'd ask anyway...
Furthermore, there never was a product model number. When I was researching which sensor to buy, I would try to search the web for each of the models I was interested in but a couple of them, including the one I decided to order, didn’t have a model name or number I could look up.
So... all I have is that product link you see. I don’t think the little user manual had a model name or number either but I can’t check right now.
Update: Looking at the product that’s now listed, there’s now a product model number (EGVOC-180) that wasn’t there for the one I got.
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My BMW has the filter under the hood and only filtered the fresh intake air
I thought the hepa on the S was the same way.
Have not disassembled either S or 3 to check for sure.
Most sources say a MERV 11 filter will remove smoke. HEPA will remove smaller particles too. Although studies on virus removal by hepa filters appears miked.
I see. Thanks for clarifying! Since it's the same manufacturer I figure the one you linked shouldn't be too different in terms of actual measurements.
Thanks again!
e-FTW
New electron smell
Exactly. Looks like there is nothing exceptional about the Model 3's Performance here. Maybe it did it faster than your RAV4? But the result was pretty much the same, right?I’m amused to see that Teslarati has written up an article based on my test video (though they didn’t notice the follow-up test with the Toyota – I’ve since added a link here). And now Elon has retweeted the article!
I do use recirculation all the time right now, happy to see it works! Just annoyed I need to toggle it every time I start the car.
Incredulocious
LEAF → RAV4EV → Model 3 → Model Y
Well, three things were different: a) faster filtration, b) some filtering even with full fresh air intake on, and c) less TVOC (better materials in interior). Also, the faster filtration might mean that it’ll be more able to keep up in nastier air. Note that at 150 outside air, the Model 3 could only bring it down to about 20. I assume this is because there is some fresh air coming in even with recycle on. The RAV4 probably won’t be able to keep it down that far even in recycle mode since my test showed it took longer when starting from 50. (I wasn’t able to test the RAV4 in conditions that nasty.)
I bought new filters from my local SC yesterday. $15 per, and you need two. They seem quite high quality. Obviously there is a charcoal layer and a filter layer. Green one side, white the other. I will replace the ones in my car once these fires are done...
And I've done some testing of my own. Both with a new Model S HEPA, and with my new-ish Model 3.
First, the HEPA. Does an amazing damn job. It's somewhat loud though, and you lose ALL control of the HVAC except for temp. If ambient was 100 µg/m³, the filter would bring it down to 2 µg/m³ in short order. If Ambient was below 50 µg/m³, then the S's filter could bring it down to zero. And keep it there. See image on the dashboard. But ignore the reading on the right (Davis). The HOME reading is local inside the S
Next is the Model 3. With ambient above 100 µg/m³ I could get it down to 8-9 µg/m³. And that's about as low as it would go. Fan on 7, recirc. So clearly it is no HEPA filter. But it's also a lot cheaper. And it does seem to work reasonably well. Again, ignore the reading on the right. The HOME is measuring inside the car after filtering for three minutes, starting at 120 µg/m³
First, the HEPA. Does an amazing damn job. It's somewhat loud though, and you lose ALL control of the HVAC except for temp. If ambient was 100 µg/m³, the filter would bring it down to 2 µg/m³ in short order. If Ambient was below 50 µg/m³, then the S's filter could bring it down to zero. And keep it there. See image on the dashboard. But ignore the reading on the right (Davis). The HOME reading is local inside the S
Next is the Model 3. With ambient above 100 µg/m³ I could get it down to 8-9 µg/m³. And that's about as low as it would go. Fan on 7, recirc. So clearly it is no HEPA filter. But it's also a lot cheaper. And it does seem to work reasonably well. Again, ignore the reading on the right. The HOME is measuring inside the car after filtering for three minutes, starting at 120 µg/m³
Here's all you really need to know. Look at the hourly chart on the bottom under "Home". The red bars are my meter sitting inside my house. Then I drove in the Model S with BioWeapon Defense on for five hours.... that's the huge drop to zero and happy green. Then I arrived back home... And this time you can pay attention to the "Davis" reading too, since it was online the whole time.
Kant.Ing
Member
HEPA works on particles down to 0.3um in size. I cannot find the spec if the IQAir monitor can measure smaller particles than PM2.5 (2.5um). Anyway I guess the HEPA filtered air is cleaner physically and biologically than a regular one.
Thanks @EVnut. I tested with the same IQair monitor and was only able to get down to the 30's after a 10 minute drive, with outside @ 120 µg/m³. I have a June build. That's not the problem...
What I suspected, but could never quantify was the CO2 implications in a near-completely sealed car. After driving with recirculate ON for the past couple weeks and leaving the windows UP while in the garage...IQair reported CO2 @ nearly 1900 ppm (while outside was 550 ppm).
My recommendation is that folks leave their windows down/cracked while parked, if possible, to air out the CO2.
Some other observations...
- The car will automatically close the outside vent (i.e., enable recirculate) after a couple of minutes while parked and off. You can check that by looking into the vent under the hood, you'll see a curved pipe casually move to close the intake.
- @brkaus, from the looks of the intake vent under the hood, it looks like the Model 3 passes all air, recirculated and fresh, through the filters.
- @e-WTF, if you last had recirculate on, it should resume that way, unless you change driver profiles, where it will restore that driver's settings. At least that's what mine does with v42.3.
What I suspected, but could never quantify was the CO2 implications in a near-completely sealed car. After driving with recirculate ON for the past couple weeks and leaving the windows UP while in the garage...IQair reported CO2 @ nearly 1900 ppm (while outside was 550 ppm).
My recommendation is that folks leave their windows down/cracked while parked, if possible, to air out the CO2.
Some other observations...
- The car will automatically close the outside vent (i.e., enable recirculate) after a couple of minutes while parked and off. You can check that by looking into the vent under the hood, you'll see a curved pipe casually move to close the intake.
- @brkaus, from the looks of the intake vent under the hood, it looks like the Model 3 passes all air, recirculated and fresh, through the filters.
- @e-WTF, if you last had recirculate on, it should resume that way, unless you change driver profiles, where it will restore that driver's settings. At least that's what mine does with v42.3.
Model 3, or HEPA'd S or X? One thing to watch is that we don't confuse AQI with concentration of PM2.5
Yes, this was a big concern of mine as well. Also a humidity problem, I found (with four of us breathing in there!)
Just from my observations of the air being filtered of particles, there is little question that this is the case.
Agreed. It is how mine works as well. The recirc IS sticky.
Ah! I was wondering about that. Boy, that seems much tougher on that filter to be taking in constant bad air. I hope it isn't on 100% external air. I'd think just a tiny bit of external could be added to pressurize the cabin enough to matter. Shouldn't take much at all. That would help clear the CO2 and moisture as well.... and not be so rough on the filter[/quote]
Incredulocious
LEAF → RAV4EV → Model 3 → Model Y
Curiously, mine has additional displayed values for PM1.0 and PM10 but I’m wondering if that’s just some statistical calculation based on the PM2.5 sensor. (No explanation in the user manual.)
I haven’t figured out the S air path yet. I did have a actuator failure that left me with no air movement if the S was set on fresh (or biohazard). I can’t picture how that would happen. The diagrams in the part manual are light on details.
0.3 is typically near the minimum efficiency. It filters out smaller particles more efficiently.
See Figure 1.
Tutorial Part 2 - air purifiers::filter efficiency
Let's just say that I'm glad I followed the link before pretending that normal logic applied here.
Indeed that is curious. PM10 makes sense. And I'm not saying that there aren't sensors for smaller than PM2.5. I just haven't stumbled on them yet. Seems odd to list them on a meter if the number is merely estimated (at least if the display or documentation doesn't saying so!).
