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strider
Active Member
Have you ever run the battery down quite low and then did a full charge? I know on my Roadster if I start losing miles quickly I can drive it for a few days until it gets down to 30 miles of range or so and then do a full range charge in one sitting. This allows the pack to balance as well as allows the computer to recalculate how much range the battery actually contains.
Honestly w/ vampire losses on Model S I can't tell what my current range is as the number is all over the map each morning.
I'm somewhat surprised at how long these Packs can last. The batteries in my laptops never last that long! I have to say, the reliability of the Battery Pack was probably my biggest sticking point to buying one of these cars. That and the long term viability of the company... then I took a test drive and all that went out the window. I'm betting on Tesla and I think I'm right. If I would buy one of these cars than anyone would.
When they reach phase 3 this company is going to take off like a Rocket (so to say). If Silicon Valley is any indication we have nothing to worry about... Tesla Model S has outsold BMW, Audi, and Mercedes here. I see at least 2 or 3 Model S cars every day. Sometimes two at one stop light. This is really happening and it's happening NOW. You watch... As long as Elon Musk is at the helm (and nobody puts out a contract on him) this company will succeed beyond any of the naysayer's expectations. We will see the end of Gas Guzzling passenger cars by the time my kids are old enough to vote. Then comes the end of Diesel Trucks in favor of electric... I hope.
When they reach phase 3 this company is going to take off like a Rocket (so to say). If Silicon Valley is any indication we have nothing to worry about... Tesla Model S has outsold BMW, Audi, and Mercedes here. I see at least 2 or 3 Model S cars every day. Sometimes two at one stop light. This is really happening and it's happening NOW. You watch... As long as Elon Musk is at the helm (and nobody puts out a contract on him) this company will succeed beyond any of the naysayer's expectations. We will see the end of Gas Guzzling passenger cars by the time my kids are old enough to vote. Then comes the end of Diesel Trucks in favor of electric... I hope.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
I haven't seen much of it in this thread, but sometimes when I talk to gas drivers about this topic, they get very concerned because they can't exactly predict the price of batteries 10 years from now. Yet they don't seem bothered by the fact that they have no idea how much gas will cost in the same timeframe. It's all a matter of what you are used to...new things are scarier than familiar things.
The big difference is that laptop batteries routinely get charged to maximum, and then sit there at maximum, while the processor is creating lots of heat. High heat at full capacity will reduce battery capacity fast. Then throw in the occasional drain the battery to zero trying to finish off the movie you are watching, and you can see how much more abused laptop batteries are.
The Tesla battery rarely gets charged to max. And even when it does, it has an air conditioner that actively cools it (and a heater in winter to warm it). It also rarely gets close to zero charge.
Plug In America also surveyed Leaf batteries. The Leaf battery is air cooled, no air conditioned liquid cooling system for them. Plug In America found a definite correlation between average outdoor temperature where the specific Leaf was being used and battery degradation. For the Roadster, no outdoor temperature correlation at all.
I'm simultaneously impressed with Tesla for being the ONLY company in the world to take battery life truly seriously, and disappointed that the rest of the car world thinks so little of their customers that they would gamble with their batteries by not providing an active liquid cooling/heating system.
Tesla has done battery management right, the rest of the world is on a wing and a prayer (and almost disaster, witness Boeing).
artsci
Sponsor
Ditto for me. I've done three range charges in 5,000 miles and they all have come in at 260.
William13
Active Member
I echo aviators99. I have 16,500 miles now. My range charge most recently was 252
It was 255 the time prior. Slow charging doesn't seem to help. The computer is estimating even lower. 50% charge is 111 miles.
I hope that the 1-2% loss per year kicks in for my battery soon.
I still love my Tesla.
It was 255 the time prior. Slow charging doesn't seem to help. The computer is estimating even lower. 50% charge is 111 miles.
I hope that the 1-2% loss per year kicks in for my battery soon.
I still love my Tesla.
SCW-Greg
Active Member
Strider is right, there's a couple of threads for the Roadster owners on this topic. The batteries over time can get out of (load) balance. A series of driving to low SOC, and then full range charging brings the batteries back into balance (combined with letting the pack sit for an hour topped off). Several have found they've recovered their mileage by doing this.
You'll find some graphs showing this over a multi-year time frame.
You'll find some graphs showing this over a multi-year time frame.
I echo aviators99. I have 16,500 miles now. My range charge most recently was 252
It was 255 the time prior. Slow charging doesn't seem to help. The computer is estimating even lower. 50% charge is 111 miles.
I hope that the 1-2% loss per year kicks in for my battery soon.
I still love my Tesla.
50% and 111mi is exactly what I see w/ v5.0 at almost 15K miles
90% 225mi
and almost done charging on the Folsom SC was at 256/7 miles
islandbayy
Active Member
I'm still getting 209 at 9,500 miles on my pack, that was last Friday. I'm going to hit 10,000 in the next couple of days, but not planning on needing a range charge.
209 is what I had when it was delivered new. I liked the old "standard" and "range" charge options, instead of this new slider. Because I always knew at 190 miles on a standard charge I was full, and it was right their every day. Now, immediately after the 4.5 firmware with slider, my daily "standard" range at "90%" is anywhere from 180-186, not as reliable of a meter now for less then range charges.
209 is what I had when it was delivered new. I liked the old "standard" and "range" charge options, instead of this new slider. Because I always knew at 190 miles on a standard charge I was full, and it was right their every day. Now, immediately after the 4.5 firmware with slider, my daily "standard" range at "90%" is anywhere from 180-186, not as reliable of a meter now for less then range charges.
And I'll echo Wiliam13 and aviators99s numbers, I'm varying from 251-254 at 100% now with a 50% SOC charge = 110 to 116. When new, my car charged to 275. I did see as low as 246 miles at 100% but it came up after re-balancing with a number of range charges in a row. I'm now at ~21k real miles, about 26k virtual miles.
Peter
Peter
I echo aviators99. I have 16,500 miles now. My range charge most recently was 252
It was 255 the time prior. Slow charging doesn't seem to help. The computer is estimating even lower. 50% charge is 111 miles.
I hope that the 1-2% loss per year kicks in for my battery soon.
I still love my Tesla.
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
Not sure what virtual miles are... but my guess is the 275 rated range at range charge where with a different firmware, correct?
Virtual miles take into account that I use more energy than a standard "rated mile". Because of that there is a multiple of 360/306.5 used in my numbers plus some additional accounting for the vampire drain on the battery.
The 275 was using old software (4.0), but that number is valid. Up to now 4.5 (.61, I don't have 5.0 so I can't comment on this version) I have not seen any software changes that effect the total max range charge on the cars (100% SOC). I have seen the updates change how they terminate partial SOC charges but not full range charges.
The real bottom line is that when the car was new, I could drive it and use ~79.7kWh and now I can only use ~72.9kWh software versions aside. The "0" point in both these cases being the same identical pack voltage.
Peter
P.S. As a side note, I've driven a number of cars with less than 500-1k miles on them, and current software 4.5 (.61), and they all charge up to somewhere in the 272-275 rated mile range.
The 275 was using old software (4.0), but that number is valid. Up to now 4.5 (.61, I don't have 5.0 so I can't comment on this version) I have not seen any software changes that effect the total max range charge on the cars (100% SOC). I have seen the updates change how they terminate partial SOC charges but not full range charges.
The real bottom line is that when the car was new, I could drive it and use ~79.7kWh and now I can only use ~72.9kWh software versions aside. The "0" point in both these cases being the same identical pack voltage.
Peter
P.S. As a side note, I've driven a number of cars with less than 500-1k miles on them, and current software 4.5 (.61), and they all charge up to somewhere in the 272-275 rated mile range.
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About the only thing you can predict with any degree of certainty is that battery prices per kWh will decline over the next ten years and that gasoline prices will rise over the same period. If you frame the issue that way, in my experience, many ICE drivers begin to see the light.
The LEAF isn't even air cooled. It just uses passive radiation to equalize the temperature between the battery pack and the surrounding ambiant temperature. The steel outer pack case is sealed and there isn't even an internal fan to equalize temperatures across the 48 battery modules. Each module contains 4 large flat cells packaged sardine-style in an unsealed rectangular aluminum can. The LEAF pack uses essentially the opposite design philosophy as the Tesla pack.
However, there are several other plugin vehicles that use fully active liquid cooling (with the A/C compressor when needed) and heating for the battery pack including the Volt and the Ford Focus EV. These TMS designs are just as capable as the Tesla design.
Chgd Up
Sig 1004
I usually start looking at getting rid of an ICE vehicle at about 60k miles (takes me about six years to get there). If my S is still getting over 200 miles at that time, I think it would still have enough life left in it to sell or trade in... That's my main concern when I started this thread. That I wouldn't end up with a car with 60k miles on it, that nobody would buy because the battery pack would be too expensive to replace... That makes me feel a lot better. Thanks...
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
I don't think that was an official statement. One person there mentioned this as likely the best range - but Tesla's official position continues to be "don't do max range charge unless you need to, otherwise forget about it and just drive"
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