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How long for the regen limit to disappear?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by dirkhh, Nov 24, 2013.

  1. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

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    Oregon usually has rather moderate climate. But last week I was on a road trip and stayed over night at a hotel in the mountains that had no charging opportunity at all. No covered parking. Nothing. So the car sat for about 30h in 28-38F weather. Stupidly I forgot to pre-heat the car before leaving, so I wasn't surprised that the orange regen limit line showed up. At only 10kW!
    What really surprised me was how long it took for it to go away. It was 38-40F during the first 20 minutes of my drive and only after 20 minutes (and about 18 miles driven) did the regen limit finally disappear. It went higher and higher, but even 15 minutes into the drive I still had only about 25kW of regen! That seemed like a really long time for not really all that cold weather. Sure, the battery had to have been completely cooled down to about 38 through and through. But 20 minutes?

    What do people in really cold climates experience. We had some harsh weather in the middle of this continent this past week... do people see the regen limit not go away at all if it's closer to 0F? And how much does pre-heating the car help?
     
  2. Denarius

    Denarius Active Member

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    If you have your car in range mode it takes longer according to the winter driving thread, I plan on testing that in the morning. Even preheating my car I'm still getting limited to 30kW (with range mode on).
     
  3. rlang59

    rlang59 Member

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    This is true. When in range mode the pack heater does not seem to turn on until much lower temperatures. In my case with range mode I went most of my 30 mile commute home with the regen limit present using range mode. With range mode off after about 15-20 miles the regen limit was gone. Temperature and driving conditions were very similar in each case.
     
  4. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    My experience exactly. Also, in Range Mode I had no problem keeping the cabin warm.
     
  5. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

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    Wow. My commute is only 20 miles... So I'll be missing regen for most if not all of it. I obviously don't range charge... In your experience, how much difference does pre-heating make?
    In the morning the car is in the garage so I don't think the pack will be all that cold, but on the way back on a cold day after 8h in the parking lot it might be chilled through and through...
     
  6. rlang59

    rlang59 Member

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    By range mode I meant the range mode setting for the climate control. For preconditioning, it seemed like 20 minutes was enough to not have the regen limit. I'll be able to let you know tonight after my drive home since it is currently about 29F outside and my car will be sitting like that all day.
     
  7. dfitz206

    dfitz206 Member

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    It seems to take about 20 min to disappear. I've only had it when I've left the car at the airport for 2 days. So this time I decided to use the free 110v plug-in and left the car attached to shore power for the two days. It completed charging (didn't want more than about an 85% SOC sitting there) at the end of day one. I thought by being attached to shore power, the regen limit wouldn't show up, that the battery would be temp controlled from the wall. It wasn't. I even pre-heated the car once I landed (about 10 min before getting to the car).

    My main question is: does the battery temp actually stay controlled by being attached to power (albeit 110v) or in my sample size of one, does is still cold soak unless actually charging?
     
  8. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX

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    Others have suggested that the way to reliably preheat the pack when on shore power is not by turning on HVAC, but by starting to charge fifteen or twenty minutes before you want to leave. Range Mode may also affect the pack warming behavior.

    I leave the car in Range Mode (not Range charging) all the time; I dislike the noisy high fan speeds you tend to get otherwise. So far this winter I've seen the regen limited to 30 kW, but nothing lower than that, even after cold soaking at 15 degrees F. for 3-1/2 hours.
     
  9. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

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    Oh, ok. Yes, I have my climate control on range mode, too. It was 32F this morning but starting from the garage I had NO regen limit at all. And by the time I drive home it's expected to be in the high 40s. So I'll try turning on the heat about 20 minutes before I leave and see how that works out. I'll be curious to hear how things work for you as you appear to be in a colder part of the country (you only provide "US" as location in your profile)

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't charge at work, so I don't have the option to charge before departing - and the garage at home never gets this cold.
    As mentioned earlier, after 30h in 28-38F I had the regen limit all the way down to 10kW! It's interesting that 3 1/2 h in 15F wasn't enough to cool it way down. Maybe the mass of the battery pack helps. I wonder what 8h in those conditions would cause...
     
  10. rlang59

    rlang59 Member

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    I'm in NJ, we got hit with a cold front yesterday so it is pretty cold today. I think the high is supposed to be around 37. Yesterday it was worse than this, about 27 according to the car, and I got the reget limit while having dinner at a restaurant last night.
     
  11. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    30 minutes charging + 30 minutes preheating + 45 minutes driving (about 60 miles) before I got full regen. it was 22 degrees outside.
     
  12. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

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    Yikes. All those Tesla statements on Facebook about how the Model S is the perfect winter car... They may be missing an asterisk or two...
     
  13. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    You just have to realize that your car drives a little differently for one season of the year. It's not a big deal once you're used to it.
     
  14. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, as Doug_G says there are some seasonal variations. IMHO, the Model S does fine in the winter. It heats the cabin nicely. Hopefully keeps the windows frost-free with the new defroster vent. Traction is as good as any RWD car. The only caveat is that it seems to use a LOT more energy. I had a bit of "charge anxiety" this cold morning when my car for some reason didn't charge last night. Fortunately yesterday was Sunday and I didn't drive much so I was able to get in to work and top up a bit over lunch at a public station at the mall. By the time I'd arrived at work, my Wh/mi number was almost 50% higher than it is in the summer, and it's only going to get colder and snowier here in the coming months. I for one have absolutely no regrets over ordering the 85 kWh pack. I can only imagine what those poor Leaf and i-MiEV drivers feel like in this weather!
     
  15. rlang59

    rlang59 Member

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    Temperature was 34F when I left work, I preheated the car for around 20 minutes. When I got in the car the "battery is heating" message popped up and went away . I got full regen back in about 10 minutes or so, with out preheating it was about 20 minutes and I had the battery heating message on for most of that.

    My conclusion is that preheating seems to help in getting regen back faster. Also during the preheating I lost (or used for those who complain about the term "lost") about 2 miles of rated range during that 20 minute preheat.
     
  16. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Yes, preheating definitely gets you the regen back more quickly.

    Yes, you can expect 50% more energy draw during the winter months, plus or minus depending on conditions.
     
  17. jrreno

    jrreno Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile

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    I realize this is an old thread but it seems the most appropriate. Overnight we went down to 20 degrees ( visiting daughter in Rochester, NY). When I took the car for a quick ride it came up with a NO REGEN warning. I had not preheated the car. I only drove a mile down the road and it was still in this state when I parked. When I came out 15 minutes later it had the regen bar at 10.
     
  18. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    The answer is "it depends". If the car was in range mode or not, how frequently there are stops and starts, hills, etc.
     
  19. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, my re-gen limit never goes away, even when it's warm and the pack is fully up to temperature. I get about 45 kW max re-gen now. I made an appointment to have it checked out, but there was a horrible snowstorm on that day, and Service couldn't road test it. I have to make a follow up appointment next week.
     

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