How many are going to pass on the Enhanced Autopilot and Full Service Driving

[Richk]

It's really sad that Las Vegas doesn't have a sufficient public transit system. But it's equally sad if bumper to bumper traffic is the primary reason you drive a Tesla. It might be cheaper to move closer to work so you can walk or ride your bicycle. And if the traffic is really that aggravating that you would rather someone else drive you, then maybe you should try to find a job in a more commuter friendly place.

Well, AP isn't the main reason I have a Tesla, but it sure was a nice enticement. I agree, it'd all be better if we all lived near where we worked, though as a practical matter, "live near work" (the outer suburbs) or "shift careers" and work near home, are both distasteful to me.

As it is, I complain, but my commute isn't bad compared to most in the DC area; most of it is against traffic. I do cycle 1-2 days/week and when driving, can usually wait and depart after rush hour if it's bad. But my MS with AP make my commuting decisions much easier-- it's no longer a big deal to commute home in mid-rush hour.

 

[JeffK]

Does anybody know what's the dividing line between EAP and Full self-driving? Specifically, if you check the "Full Self-Driving Capability" box on the order form, when will you start getting features that EAP-only cars won't get?

Will self-driving features will roll out incrementally under the EAP option, only under the self-drive option, or will there be one massive Full-Monty self-drive upgrade? If it's the 3rd option, then I agree that it will take a long time and local regulations might cause it never to happen in some cases. I hope and expect it's one the former options, that it will remain a driver-assist capability in the beginning, but handle more and more situations.

I'm planning to upgrade my MS to one an EAP-capable one and definitely get the EAP option up front. If self-drive option-only capabilities start at or before the end of 2017, then I probably will pull the trigger and get full self-driving now. But if we have to wait two years or more, or they roll out some of it under EAP-only, getting full self-driving +$3k option now seems risky compared to +$4k later.

As far as I know there's no official statement on this, but I'd imagine they'd enable features as they are validated but maintain the requirement that the driver is in control. It's just speculation though. (otherwise customers have no perceived value for a really long period of time)

One it passes regulatory hurdles then we might see the full self-driving stack.

 

[Richk]

As far as I know there's no official statement on this, but I'd imagine they'd enable features as they are validated but maintain the requirement that the driver is in control. It's just speculation though. (otherwise customers have no perceived value for a really long period of time)

One it passes regulatory hurdles then we might see the full self-driving stack.

Exactly. What are we getting for our money besides a vague promise that may depend on regulatory approval?

 

[Duke-U]

For what its worth, I am ordering a S90 with all the autopilot options. I expect (and hope) it will be like AP1: gradually more self-driving is introduced and while the driver is still behind the wheel, less and less situation require him to take control as the updates roll in.
I don't really expect or care about the car driving itself without anybody in it, since that will probably still be some years away due to regulations, but having it park itself in the confines of a parking lot or garage would be awesome.
I did drive a S85 for several days, and AP1 sometimes suprised me with a strange move. So i hope the full stack of AP2 will allow for an even more relaxed commute.

 

[flamingoezz]

I was hoping to get full autonomous, but at those prices, it really isn't practical for anybody with a budget. 8K can buy you a ton of non-software options that aren't quite so simple to upgrade later. I suspect most will opt for those over full autonomy unless the price decreases or you're part of the 'just about fully loaded' crowd.

I may get EAP though. I was really hoping it would enable users to not have to keep their hands on the wheel (not level 5 autonomy, but maybe level 4)...that seems unlikely however, so I'll have to see where it lands on my priority list in 6-9 months when more details are out and we're configuring cars.

 

[dsvick]

But then there are people like me who when they see a Tesla they immediately look for the badge...

That would only apply to people that know what the badges mean though. I see all sorts of different ones on other cars for their model and have no idea what any of them mean.

 

[JeffK]

That would only apply to people that know what the badges mean though. I see all sorts of different ones on other cars for their model and have no idea what any of them mean.

True, I still get people asking "what are those 'T' cars?"

 

[Jason Bourne]

I personally have no intention of purchasing any optional driver aids or autonomy. One of the biggest reasons I want a Tesla is for the active driving experience. I don't have occasion to drive long highway distances or thick bumper-to-bumper traffic practically ever, when I may prefer to 'zone-out'.

 

[JeffK]

I personally have no intention of purchasing any optional driver aids or autonomy. One of the biggest reasons I want a Tesla is for the active driving experience. I don't have occasion to drive long highway distances practically ever, when I may prefer to 'zone-out'.

Isn't it better to have and not use vs not have at all? Are you going to be the only one who ever drives the car?

 

[Jason Bourne]

Isn't it better to have and not use vs not have at all? Are you going to be the only one who ever drives the car?

Not when it's a several thousand dollar upgrade that I don't intend to use, and that also can be added later.
Yes, my wife and I each have our own car and we don't really drive the other's.

 

[diamond.g]

I will likely pass on FSD for the time being. Will get E-AP though. Mostly because I think some states will be behind in allowing FSD use, unless a Federal law comes (which I do not see happening).

 

[JGard]

I am in the same camp, it seems, as many here. I think it's a cool feature, but I also really enjoy driving. However, I dislike driving in stop and go traffic every morning and evening. The difficulty is in deciding whether $8k is worth not having to personally deal with that traffic. I have a feeling I'll pass at first, because I'd likely rather use that money to upgrade to a bigger battery or upgraded audio system or something like that

 

[Duke-U]

Wouldn't it be strange to offer *nothing* for the FSD option? I hope it will surpass the enhanced AP feature after December, when they add traffic lights and ability to turn streets and auto-navigate etc to the functionality. So initially it would be like an up-featured E-AP, effectively still being Level2 but taking care of more situations that you could not handle hands-off without the FSD option.

So it would be self drive, but with a driver required behind the wheel and from time to time nagging for him to hold the wheel. That way they could introduce and test a lot more FSD within the regulations.
If this would be the case, I would feel even better ordering it now.

 

[Richk]

Wouldn't it be strange to offer *nothing* for the FSD option? I hope it will surpass the enhanced AP feature after December, when they add traffic lights and ability to turn streets and auto-navigate etc to the functionality. So initially it would be like an up-featured E-AP, effectively still being Level2 but taking care of more situations that you could not handle hands-off without the FSD option.

So it would be self drive, but with a driver required behind the wheel and from time to time nagging for him to hold the wheel. That way they could introduce and test a lot more FSD within the regulations.
If this would be the case, I would feel even better ordering it now.

I agree and I hope for those things as well. It's frustrating that they haven't made it clear what you'll be getting for EAP vs FSD. If they made it clear that EAP is only for highway driving and FSD is for incrementally-more assist city driving starting in about x months, that would be a great start. Without that, there's not enough info for me to make a decision.

 

[wesley888]

Just think about the AP1, it was essentially illegal to leave the hands off the steering wheel. Tesla let people use it anyway. I'm pretty sure Tesla is going to let us use the EAP and FSD functions little by little providing we touch the steering wheel from time to time.

Think about the summon function from AP1. Although it only go straight, I'm pretty sure it is illegal for a car to move not having someone sit in the driver seat as well.

I won't hold my breath waiting for the government to approve FSD, but I'm sure Tesla will still let us use some of it's functionality before it is "legal" to use.

 

[dsvick]

I won't hold my breath waiting for the government to approve FSD, but I'm sure Tesla will still let us use some of it's functionality before it is "legal" to use.

I think you're right, they'll say "Here you go, be carefull, only use it where legal to do so". They'll get a lot of free testing completed as well as tons of data. And be sort of in the clear in the event of misuse.

 

[JeffK]

I think you're right, they'll say "Here you go, be carefull, only use it where legal to do so". They'll get a lot of free testing completed as well as tons of data. And be sort of in the clear in the event of misuse.

Keep in mind that the purpose of shadow mode is to get the free testing from every AP2 hardware equipped car. FSD doesn't even need to be enabled for that.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Keep in mind that the purpose of shadow mode is to get the free testing from every AP2 hardware equipped car. FSD doesn't even need to be enabled for that.

It will only be collecting data on how the driver reacts to certain situations and how the hardware works in all different environments. It can't collect any data on how the actual software is functioning without being activated. Still, it will provide much needed data that will hopefully speed up the inevitable tweaking of the software once it is released.

Dan

 

[WileyTheMan]

The price for AP is cost-prohibitive to me at the moment. When I want/need it in the future, its nice to know I can have it.

I'll certainly take (and expect to have standard) the safety features of emergency braking and cruise control.

 

[Booga]

I was hoping to get full autonomous, but at those prices, it really isn't practical for anybody with a budget. 8K can buy you a ton of non-software options that aren't quite so simple to upgrade later. I suspect most will opt for those over full autonomy unless the price decreases or you're part of the 'just about fully loaded' crowd.

I may get EAP though. I was really hoping it would enable users to not have to keep their hands on the wheel (not level 5 autonomy, but maybe level 4)...that seems unlikely however, so I'll have to see where it lands on my priority list in 6-9 months when more details are out and we're configuring cars.

I'm in the same boat. EAP is more likely for me than fully autonomous ability.